Burneside Tramway in 7mm Scale

[NeilHB]

Help! I seem to have had a very silly idea to build a model of part of the Burneside Tramway in 7mm scale...its not the first time either (first time round was for the 2010 challenge - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/3675-neilhbs-2010-challenge-entry-burneside-tramway/),but I think that this attempt will get a lot further than the previous one.

 

I blame Andy Young for encouraging me to resurrect this idea - not that it took much!

 

For those of you who aren't aware of the Tramway, here's a brief history:

 

The Cropper’s paper business is now concentrated at Burneside, but when all three mills were in use the transport problem was solved by the construction of a narrow gauge tramway linking the sites in 1879. The tramway was replaced in 1927 (though other sites give the date as 1924) by a standard gauge line, built using rails captured from the Turks in the First World War. This railway was linked to the Windermere – Oxenholme branch line. The line was operated originally by a standard gauge Simplex petrol locomotive called ‘Rachel’, this became the spare loco when a Ruston & Hornsby 48DS arrived in 1951. The railway brought in all the raw materials, including pulp, dyes, chemicals and coal, and sent out paper products. The line was closed between Burneside and Cowan Head in 1965, but the siding to Burneside was used for coal for a few more years. (From: http://www.cumbria-industries.org.uk/a-z-of-industries/paper/burneside-paper-mill/ with a few amendments)

 

My idea is to model a collage of various scenes from the Tramway, sort of a cameo layout I guess, from the 1950s and 1960s. Thanks to the 'Burneside Present and Past' group on Facebook I have been able to locate a fair few photos of the Tramway, including several that I hadn't seen before:

 

Ruston passing through Burneside - it is exiting the paper mill complex in Burneside itself, and will shortly enter the goods yard at Burneside station.

 

Simplex 'Rachel' in Burneside goods yard

 

Simplex 'Rachel' out on the Tramway

 

Simplex 'Rachel' at the mill complex at Bowston, from here the line continued on the last mill at Cowan Head

 

Which is where (I think) the Ruston can be seen!

 

I have a couple of ideas for the model, one of which is a series of modules showing various scenes along the Tramway (including some of the scenes seen in the photos above) which can be swapped around as the mood takes me, or set up all in one go (but not in the train room as there isn't enough room!). One of the scenes I would like to model is the short siding at WhiteFoot Tip Wood, which served the slurry tip, I have seen reference to an amusing incident in 1954 where the Simplex 'Rachel' ran off the end of the siding and ended up in the slurry...perhaps there could be a half submerged wagon and a couple of blokes standing around scratching their heads wondering what to do?!

 

The other option was a micro layout, along similar lines to Jim Read's Moxley (http://www.jasread.com/micro/moxley.html) but in mirror image format, with the two locos shuffling a mixture of wagons around a couple of sidings, which would probably represent the Cowan Head end of the Tramway. It could also form one of the modules thinking about it.

 

Loco stock would be minimal, with the Simplex (a possible candidate for a 3D print job - my local modelling group has a tame 3D print expert with his own 3D printer...) and the Ruston 48DS (more than likely one of the new Judith Edge kits - they look exquisite). I'd also like an excuse to buy and run one of the lovely new Dapol 08s, but I really don't think I could get away with it!

 

Rolling stock wise from photos it looks like I will need a few opens, mostly sheeted, plus a few vans and a couple of coal wagons (I'm guessing by the 50s/60s most of the coal would be carried in 16T minerals?). It looks like the Tramway had a couple of dedicated internal user wagons, which I'm guessing they used for the slurry traffic, but the photos I have aren't clear enough to give details.

 

Trackplan for the micro layout is below, size wise approx 4'7"x18"

 

Incidentally, if anyone has any photos or information on the Tramway that they'd be willing to share please, I'd be very grateful!

[Dava]

Great to see this project reinstated, ideal for a 48DS and Simplex.

 

Dava

[Ruston]

Excellent! You got me hooked at the sight of a 48DS trundling down the road next to a churchyard.

[Mike Bellamy]

I've seen that first photo of the Ruston somewhere quite recently . . . . . . . .

 

Will it be ready for our little get together at Mickleover in January . . . . . . but perhaps not for 2017 !

 

.

[NeilHB]

Great to see this project reinstated, ideal for a 48DS and Simplex.

Dava

 

 

Thanks Dave.

 

 

Excellent! You got me hooked at the sight of a 48DS trundling down the road next to a churchyard.

Thanks Ruston, will admit that that photo is probably one of my favourites!

 

  

I've seen that first photo of the Ruston somewhere quite recently . . . . . . . .

 

Will it be ready for our little get together at Mickleover in January . . . . . . but perhaps not for 2017 !

 

.

Haha yes I wonder where you have seen it before?!

 

It can be ready for Mickleover in January, I'm just not committing to which year though!

[MarcD]

Looks like a good plan. The simplex loco still exsists its at Haverthwaite.

 

Marc

[decauville1126]

Looks like a good plan. The simplex loco still exsists its at Haverthwaite.

 

Marc

 

And the Ruston 48DS became "Flying Flea" at Carnforth before moving south to Sir William McAlpine's Fawley Hill Railway. Last time I saw it it was stored in a large rail-connected shed at the outermost extremity of the line. So both locos survive although "Rachel" the Simplex had been "under restoration" for many years at the Lakesdie and Haverthwaite Railway although it was/still is on display in their exhibition hall.

 

There is a good selection of photos available for purchase from the Cumbrian Railways Association website.

[NeilHB]

Looks like a good plan. The simplex loco still exsists its at Haverthwaite.

 

Marc

 

 

Thanks Marc.

 

And the Ruston 48DS became "Flying Flea" at Carnforth before moving south to Sir William McAlpine's Fawley Hill Railway. Last time I saw it it was stored in a large rail-connected shed at the outermost extremity of the line. So both locos survive although "Rachel" the Simplex had been "under restoration" for many years at the Lakesdie and Haverthwaite Railway although it was/still is on display in their exhibition hall.

 

There is a good selection of photos available for purchase from the Cumbrian Railways Association website.

Thanks decauville1126, much appreciated for the info on the Ruston. Nice to see that both locos survive, albeit neither currently working by the sounds of things. Yes have seen the photos on the CRA site, must get round to purchasing some copies at some point!

[5050]

A copy of the first photo was given to me a few (in reality over 10 now I come to think!) by a business contact of mine who comes from the area and (I think) lives in Burneside.  It is a line that has fascinated me since and I look forward to seeing your progress.  I hadn't realised the locos are 'preserved'.

[Andrew Young]

Nice to see this project resurrected Neil! The forthcoming 48DS kit from Judith Edge has to also take some credit... Think this is a really cracking prototype, whether modelled accurately or as the inspiration for some freelance modelling.

 

Have to admit that your previous layout plan is quite eye catching too, any plans to have a crack at that one too?

 

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[NeilHB]

Nice to see this project resurrected Neil! The forthcoming 48DS kit from Judith Edge has to also take some credit... Think this is a really cracking prototype, whether modelled accurately or as the inspiration for some freelance modelling.

Have to admit that your previous layout plan is quite eye catching too, any plans to have a crack at that one too?

image.jpg

Cheers,

Andrew

Thanks Andrew. I may end up incorporating aspects of my original plan into this one, possibly in one or other of the modules I have planned.

 

I have rough ideas for approximately 5 modules (including a FY one) which would various aspects of the Tramway:

 

1 - Cowan Head - the mill at the furthest end of the line, probably using the plan from post #1, or a modified version of it.

2 - Entrance to Bowston village (3rd photo down in post #1 - the Simplex and the 4 wagons) - this is the point that the Tramway rejoins the road, having run for the previous 1/2 mile or so on the verge from just before Whitefoot house.

3 - Whitefoot Wood slurry siding - there was a short siding here which served the slurry tip.

4 - Fiddleyard - 3-4 road traverser or cassettes? It would need to have an entrance at either end in order to connect to module No.5...

5 - St Oswald's churchyard, which is where the first photo in post #1 is. Given that this is out the other entrance to Burneside station goods yard, I've sited it the other side of the main FY - this does mean that this module would need another FY at its far end which would represent the mill complex at Burneside.

 

I have managed to track down a suitable OS map of the area from 1911, it shows the route of the Tramway as it was then:

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101105226 (you'll need to zoom in on Burneside and then you'll be able to follow the route of the Tramway)

The only bit missing is the slurry siding, but I have seen it located on a 1920s version of the OS map just to the left of the house marked Whitefoot, and below the 205 marker. You can see the site clearly on Googleearth and in the street view - there is a large cleared area of the wood adjacent to the route of the road and the Tramway.

 

Having found the OS map, I spent a productive lunch hour on Friday tracing the route on the line on Googlemaps, in the satellite view, and on the street view. The bit around Whitefoot is interesting as you can clearly see the route of the Tramway - the road climbs steeply, whilst the Tramway (now a footpath - The Dales Way) carries on the level through a cutting - you can see this from the photos below, one is an extract from a newspaper cutting which talked about the closure of the Burneside-Bowston section in 1965, and has a couple of nice photos of the Ruston out and about, firstly in Bowston village, and secondly just about to enter the cutting by Whitefoot house:

 

 

Below is one of my photos from a visit to the area in 2010 - apart from being a bit more overgrown the view is still the same...just sadly minus one Ruston!

 

 

Traffic wise for the layout, it will mainly be coal and pulp inwards, and the finished paper products going out. Though the newspaper article referenced above mentions that the mill at Cowan Head converted to burn oil rather than coal in the mid-1950s - so I could in theory run an oil tank or two - would the new Dapol/ex Lionheart ones be suitable? If so, which one(s) would be suitable given that they are producing different variants?

Thinking about other goods inbound/outbound, this site talks about different materials used for finishing the paper products: http://mike.da2c.org/igg/rail/12-linind/papercard.htm - including China clay.

Various sources also mention chlorine/bleach being used - so any suggestions for how these would arrive by rail please? I am assuming tank wagons? Or barrels in open wagons?

 

Lastly, I was planning to use code 100 rail for the lightweight track work, which was approx 40lb per yard - would this be suitable, or would something like code 82 be better? If the latter, is there a supplier of this rail that would be suitable for use in 7mm scale?

 

Ta muchly in advance!

Edited December 10, 2016 by NeilHB

[Marshall5]

Thanks, Neil, for a very interesting post.  As regards the Dapol/Lionheart tankers the class B Esso or Shell BP ones would probably be appropriate. I seem to remember working out the 'correct' weight of rail for code 100 (0.100" high) to be about 60lbs/yd and probably about right for this tramway.  40lb might be a bit light IMHO.

Cheers,

Ray.

[Dava]

Some of the photos show bullhead rail (the tramway sections could use FB) and you could try Peco BH code 70 for this, or similar. It might look a bit lightweight but that's what you want.

 

Dava

[NeilHB]

Thanks, Neil, for a very interesting post.  As regards the Dapol/Lionheart tankers the class B Esso or Shell BP ones would probably be appropriate. I seem to remember working out the 'correct' weight of rail for code 100 (0.100" high) to be about 60lbs/yd and probably about right for this tramway.  40lb might be a bit light IMHO.

Cheers,

Ray.

 

 

Ray, many thanks for the tanker suggestions. I did think 40lb might be too light, but was just going off what I had read. Code 100 probably easier to get hold of, especially as I have a couple of lengths of 00 Peco flexible track waiting to be donors!

 

 

Some of the photos show bullhead rail (the tramway sections could use FB) and you could try Peco BH code 70 for this, or similar. It might look a bit lightweight but that's what you want.

Dava

Thanks Dave - yes I think there was a real mix of track types in use on the Tramway. Supposedly some of the earlier rails where bought back from Palestine after WWI! I will have a look at the Peco code 70 as well - probably better for some of the lightly used sidings, such as the slurry tip one?

[Mike Bellamy]

Only 5 modules - and you have 6 weeks to the show so you will have time to finish it after all . . . . . . . and that productive lunch hour yesterday taught me a thing or two that I didn't know before !

 

.

[ColinK]

I've been along that road many times in the last 3 years, never realised there had been a railway.

[Russ (mines a pint)]

Hugely inspirational prototype and remember your plans from 2010, 

I hope you are able to bring this to fruition, and will watch with interest !

[Andrew Young]

Neil,

 

Really like the modular idea with each module being one board in size. Very reminiscent of the layouts I've seen Jim Read and Mike (sorry, forgotten his surname, but Mr Reelly Grate layout). Or possibly a vertically stacked set of modules like Iain Rice's 'Virtual in Industria'...

 

The Lionheart tank wagons are delightful, and having an oil fired mill is a great idea to run one. Along with 16T minerals for the coal, sheeted opens bringing in chemicals, some China clay hooded wagons and the vans taking away the finished product would give a good variety of operation. Plus, wasn't there a quarry up one of the branches?

 

You could always expand the locomotive fleet from the prototypical locos as you have a Tin Turtle iirc, plus, should you want to get one, the Ixion Fowler would be ideal plus your Manning Wardle 0-4-0.

 

Would be good if you could print out the maps and photos for our next Brunswick meeting and go through where it all fits together.

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[NeilHB]

I've been along that road many times in the last 3 years, never realised there had been a railway.

It's not that obvious if you aren't aware that it was there, but having now seen the OS maps I can generally follow the route on Googlemaps etc. Just need to get back up to Burneside to do a more recent field visit, when we last went I wasn't sure of the route so missed a few bits out.

 

Hugely inspirational prototype and remember your plans from 2010,

I hope you are able to bring this to fruition, and will watch with interest !

Thanks Russ, much appreciated :-)

 

Neil,

Really like the modular idea with each module being one board in size. Very reminiscent of the layouts I've seen Jim Read and Mike (sorry, forgotten his surname, but Mr Reelly Grate layout). Or possibly a vertically stacked set of modules like Iain Rice's 'Virtual in Industria'...

The Lionheart tank wagons are delightful, and having an oil fired mill is a great idea to run one. Along with 16T minerals for the coal, sheeted opens bringing in chemicals, some China clay hooded wagons and the vans taking away the finished product would give a good variety of operation. Plus, wasn't there a quarry up one of the branches?

You could always expand the locomotive fleet from the prototypical locos as you have a Tin Turtle iirc, plus, should you want to get one, the Ixion Fowler would be ideal plus your Manning Wardle 0-4-0.

Would be good if you could print out the maps and photos for our next Brunswick meeting and go through where it all fits together.

Cheers,

Andrew

Thanks Andrew. Current thinking is roughly 3'6" x 18" for each board size, which given that most of the modules will be a single line of track should be more than sufficient for lots of scenery around it. Think the Cowan Head board may need to be slightly larger though, or formed from two smaller boards to create one say 5' x 18" - this should give enough space needed for the sidings and loop etc.

 

Edited to add that I want to 'frame' each board so that each scene is separate, so that you get a sense that the train has travelled somewhere?

 

Yes the Lionheart tank wagons are lovely, which is why I'm now glad I have an excuse to buy a couple! It will make it a bit different being oil fired. Yes thinking a couple of 16T minerals, plus one or two clay wagons (though not the hoods sadly as they came in too late for Burneside...unless I contrive that it stayed open longer!) and some sheeted opens. From looking at the photos again this morning, it looks like the new Dapol high bar opens will be suitable, as well as a couple of their new BR standard 12T vans!

 

I have a small confession about the quarry - it was a complete work of fiction when I designed the original layout, added in to give a bit more operational interest. I could still include it, perhaps a later module could include a junction to a fictional quarry?

 

Yes true there is the Tin Turtle to build at some point, and I will probably succumb to a Fowler before too long! The MW can have running rights if and when I build the quarry junction board (or when no-one else is looking )

 

Aye I shall bring them with me to the Brunswick. If I get a chance before the meeting I'll sketch out a couple of the ideas that I have and bring them with me too.

Edited December 11, 2016 by NeilHB

[Andrew Young]

The choice of wagons does make a good mix. Think Slaters do a private owner China Clay wagon which may be suitable?

 

Shame about the quarry as does give some operating interest, see what you get space for?

 

As for the modules, if you have the space, making them 2ft deep would give a little more space.

 

Cheers,

Andrew

[NeilHB]

The choice of wagons does make a good mix. Think Slaters do a private owner China Clay wagon which may be suitable?

Shame about the quarry as does give some operating interest, see what you get space for?

As for the modules, if you have the space, making them 2ft deep would give a little more space.

Cheers,

Andrew

Yes that's a good point - though not sure how long the version produced by Slaters was in use for - for the BR version which I think would be more suitable there sadly isn't a kit in 7mm, though I note that Parkside do produce a kit for one in 4mm...maybe they could be persuaded to upscale it?!

 

True about the quarry junction module, shall have to see what space is available.

 

Yes I think you are right on the size of the modules, 2ft would give more depth, and space for more scenery!

[NeilHB]

Below is the plan for two of the modules, the entrance to Bowston village, which is photo #3 in the first post, this is the right side of the plan. The left half is the slurry siding at Whitefoot Wood, the line exits the scene to the left behind the road which climbs at this point, the line continues on the level in a cutting behind the road, and is the opposite end of the cutting from the photo seen a couple of posts above.

 

 

Each board is 3'6" x 2', so plenty of room for scenics...and a hell of a lot of trees...!

 

Given the sweep of the line here which I wanted to retain, these two modules will operate as a pair, and the line exit at either end of the pair will be in the same place, so that they can join to the other modules.

[tim@dy]

Neil

Regarding the China Clay wagon,you need a GWR Dia.013 wagon,Parkside do the 4mm version and I have some 7mm scale resin body kits.I could let you have one or two,for a reasonable price of course! 

 

I've also found an interesting small loco for you,a Baguley-Drewry 0-4-0 std. gauge shunter(Petrol or Diesel engine)with a wheel base of 5'6" and 3'1" wheels.

Remind me before Thursday and I'll bring a Dia.013 wagon with me to the Brunswick,aswell as the Baguley-Drewry book.

 

Cheers

Tim

Edited December 11, 2016 by tim@dy

[NeilHB]

Neil

Regarding the China Clay wagon,you need a GWR Dia.013 wagon,Parkside do the 4mm version and I have some 7mm scale resin body kits.I could let you have one or two,for a reasonable price of course!

 

I've also found an interesting small loco for you,a Baguley-Drewry 0-4-0 std. gauge shunter(Petrol or Diesel engine)with a wheel base of 5'6" and 3'1" wheels.

Remind me before Thursday and I'll bring a Dia.013 wagon with me to the Brunswick,aswell as the Baguley-Drewry book.

 

Cheers

Tim

Thanks Tim, that sounds good to me, will send you an email shortly :-)

[Marshall5]

Neil, if you don't get fixed up with the china clay wagons offered in a previous post I see that Skytrex still show them as available on their website. As far as suitable locos go you might be lucky enough to get hold of one of the Motor Rail Simplex's that Impetus used to sell.  With some mods to the cab it could pass for the Burneside Tramway one. I seem to recall that the chap at Kalgarin models (who bought Impetus) still had some "etches only" a couple of years ago. FWIW I've attached a photo of my Simplex, built from the Impetus kit many years ago, for comparison.

Cheers,

Ray.