South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[The Johnster]

That said some of the google images of these wagons clearly show XP markings.  It's an odd kit in that the end 'strengtheners' are separate, and there seems no reason for them not to have been moulded integrally with the ends.  Were they detachable and only used when the ends were dropped?  All those on HMRSPaul's site are in departmental use, which to be fair is how most of these wagons spent most of their lives, but mine is to be in revenue service.  Google images has B 456525 and B461224 as preserved on the Bluebell, and another that I can't quite make the number out on, all with XP markings.

[31A]

I certainly put XP on mine; can't remember whether I worked from a picture or not but I usually do.

 

Also put a lamp iron on the end, in the left hand panel - hopefully the photo shows, sorry it's a bit blurred

 

.

 

I presume the end strengtheners are separate pieces for moulding reasons - not possible to produce the 'undercut' if moulded as one piece with the ends?

[The Johnster]

Yes, mine will need lamp irons as well; all XP wagons had them.  I'm waiting for a delivery of NEM couplings to finish the wagon off but it's ready for painting; I've been doing a bit of bridging wiring this evening to circumvent some minor insulfrog turnout issues, and running with the new trackplan at the fiddle yard throat is now very smooth, but the distraction has meant that I haven't even looked at what transfers I have in stock.  

 

Another task is to attempt to get as much hidden ballast weight in as I can under the floor, Liquid Lead sealed with Milliput, and if this isn't enough to ensure steady running I'll have to permanently fix a heavy load of some sort to the wagon, and I don't really want to do that.  I wanted to use some Bachmann buffers with it but the shafts are too large to safely bore the mounting holes out on the kit, so I've cleaned up the kit buffers as best I can and am using these.

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Yes, mine will need lamp irons as well; all XP wagons had them.

I’d never realised that before, seems obvious now you say.

XP must be fitted so could be last vehicle on a train.  Unfitted must have a brake van in rear so will never carry a tail lamp.

(slow) Paul.

:-)

[The Johnster]

There is a third category, fitted wagons which are not XP rated such as fitted 16ton minerals (not XP because 9' wheelbase).  These did not need lamp irons because they had brake vans behind them until the 1969 single manning agreement, which allowed guards to ride in the back cab of the loco.  A fully fitted class 6 train could legitimately have a fitted 16ton mineral as the rear vehicle.  Prior to 1969, a fully fitted train could have up to 2 4 wheeled vehicles behind the brake van so long as the brakes were tested and working on all 4 wheelsets, and this was common on the ECML's express freights and fish trains to steady the riding of the brake van.  The appearance of a vacuum fitted mineral wagon on these services was unlikely...

 

Piped only vehicles (through white painted vacuum pipe but no cylinder or automatic brakes) could not be XP rated either, as they could not be taken as tail traffic on a passenger rated train.  On a passenger rated train, all brakes must be working on all the vehicles.

 

Incidentally, the BR standard tail lamp has a handle shaped so that it can fit firmly and securely over the drawhook shaft of the rear vehicle if required.  

 

Where unfitted trains ran without brake vans under the authority of Sectional Appendices, it was usual practice to attach rags, newpapers, or buckets to the rear drawhook to confirm that the train was complete on arrival at it's destination, and this was practice on private systems such as NCB where loose coupled trains moved between sites (e.g. screens to washery at another site locally within the NCB network).  This practice goes back to the very earliest days of railways and was used on the waggonways and tramroads that preceded them.  

[tomparryharry]

23 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

 

Incidentally, the BR standard tail lamp has a handle shaped so that it can fit firmly and securely over the drawhook shaft of the rear vehicle if required.  

 

 

 

An improvement suggestion, as put forward by the late John Drayton, of Pontypool Road. ( I've just read his book!).

[The Johnster]

The suggestion box king, as he was known.  He was in the Guiness Book of Records for the most suggestions ever submitted by an employee, I believe.  I suggested that a voice tube pipe, similar to those in marine use to communicate between the bridge and the engine rook, be installed on diesel and electric locomotives for communication between the cabs, which I thought was a pretty good idea that could be very cheaply and easily instituted.  I got a polite but obviously pro-forma letter that claimed that the idea would be taken into consideration, yeah, right.  We communicated using the fire alarm test bells.  

 

We already had an intercom system between the guard's compartment and the cabs on dmus, but I only once recall it being used; again, the bell was the normal method.  You had to use the bell to alert the driver to the fact you wanted to speak to him anyway, and this may have been the reason my voice tube idea was not bothered with.  OTOH it may have simply been a daft idea and impractical for some reason I have not considered.

 

On locos, you could always go through the engine room which we were not really supposed to do; we were not issued with ear defenders whereas footplate grades, fitters, leckies, and so on were.  But there were recognised firebell codes for 'come through, guard, tea's up!.

[The Johnster]

Medfit Sitrep (good name for a band); painting and number/lettering are complete.  The numbering was done on the basis of the best combination of numbers I could cobble together within the boundaries of the set numbers I have in stock, Cambridge Custom Transfer sheets for cattle wagons and GW toads, and the number has ended up as B458922, and even then I had to apply the Bs, 4s, and 5s individually from a HMRS sheet.  This is pretty close to the limit of what my eyesight and steadiness of hand will cope with, and has taken me nearly 2 hours of fairly intense concentration, nearly all of which was the number.  The XP. tare, and wheelbase are a single panel, and because my method of doing this sort of thing is to do the fiddly bits first so that I am not already tired when I come to them, went on in a matter of a couple of minutes.  I then played the hallelujah chorus, Handel's, and danced around the railway room.  The squeeze is used to this sort of thing by now and just rolled her eyes...

 

Transfers to dry overnight and she'll be reading tomorrow for a coat of acrylic matt varnish, then the weathering and the lamp irons, then she can pose for her photo.  I'm not happy 100% with her buffers, but these can be replaced as and when better ones become available.  Oh, and the couplings need to be fixed on; I'm picking these up from the local post office tomoz.

[The Johnster]

On 18/05/2020 at 09:37, 31A said:

 

I presume the end strengtheners are separate pieces for moulding reasons - not possible to produce the 'undercut' if moulded as one piece with the ends?

Makes sense, so I agree!

[The Johnster]

I’ve had a day of staying in the cool of the layout room potching about, and now I’m on the patio with the chimnea/basket going to keep the flies off reviewing what I’ve done.  I’ve sorted some connection issues on the new fy throat, taken a fy road out to relay it a bit more level, and sorted 2 Parky wagons that had coupling/buffer locking issues, almost without realising it.  Productive potching!

 

Mica and GW 9’ wheelbase GW unfitted 5 plank returned to service.   A 56xx has started to slip gears under load in reverse, and inspection shows that the motor, complete with shaft and worm, is being pushed upwards about 1.5mm by the intermediate drive cog gear.  I have constructed a sort of experimental securing strap bridge to span between the sides of the motor cradle and hold it in mesh, but tbh this is a bodge, and it probably needs more serious tlc.  It’s off mineral work and on light duties for now, at least in reverse. 
 

The new method of working the colliery exchange has settled in to the makings of a smooth routine operation, with 2761 plating the part of a hired NCB loco pending something more suitable.  She’s banned from BR running lines while crewed by NCB men, and a Tondu crew come up on the cushions Saturday lunch time to take her home for attention and a boiler washout every other week; she is delivered as a pilot to the first mineral up the Valley on Monday, or Tuesday after boiler washout weekends, one of the other panniers deputises for that Monday,   the more or less brand new 6762 being preferred by the NCB boys.  She doesn’t appear much but is an essential part of the operation nonetheless; she does poke her bunker out under the bridge (NCB request loco facing down Valley) with a shunting movement or to exchange the odd empty pit prop 5 planker.  
 

It’s all real, you know, I don’t make any of it up...

Edited May 31, 2020 by The Johnster

[tomparryharry]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

I’ve had a day of staying in the cool of the layout room potching about, and now I’m on the patio with the chimnea/basket going to keep the flies off reviewing what I’ve done.  I’ve sorted some connection issues on the new fy throat, taken a fy road out to relay it a bit more level, and sorted 2 Parky wagons that had coupling/buffer locking issues, almost without realising it.  Productive potching!

 

There's nothing like a good potch!

[The Johnster]

Followed by a cold one on the patio!

[The Johnster]

I've received an eBay Bachmann sand wagon, unfitted, to deliver casting sand to the foundry down the branch.  It's a convincing little model, but has rather odd wheels of a type I've not seen before, with a sort of collar piece between the axle and the wheel, not that it matters so long as the B2Bs are ok.  It's branded underneath Bachmann Made in China, and I'm assuming it's an earlier model than I'm used to.  It has NEM couplings and proper separate handbrake levers so it can't be that old.  It was sold as NIB and seems to be just that.

 

The old Remploy platform is still in place on what is now the colliery exchange access road, and I've been thinking about what to do with it.  It's very firmly pva'd to the board, and removing it is likely to cause more problems than leaving it there.  I've removed the canopy for now, and am looking at a rather nice Petite Properties workshop twin gabled low relief building, which can be part of the colliery complex and may even see the odd delivery from a general merchandise open or van; this can be left there by the pickup and the colliery loco can move it out of the way for passing the empty or loaded coal trains, and replace it afterwards to continue unloading.  It can then disappear into the colliery sidings until the next pickup when the colliery loco can exchange it.

[The Johnster]

A colliery loco has been sourced on ‘Bay, and is expected towards the end of next week.  It may not be the final solution to the colliery loco issue but is cheap and will do for now.  It’s an old Triang Dock Authority/Yard Switcher, and will be worked up

as far as possible; glazing, big industrial buffers, as much cab interior detail as I can.  She’ll be a bit of an off stage performer, pushing rakes of minerals on-scene, but she can put an appearance in occasionally with the odd pitprop wagon and returning the empty.  
 

As diesels go they don’t come much cuter, with her snubby little nose and sad eyes.  She’s got something of the 50s styling for industrial diesels about her, and will have to be electrically or hydraulically powered.  What sort of back story I will be able to cobble up to explain her presence at a colliery, where fuel for steam locos is free and plentiful, is a matter of conjecture at the moment... 

[Welchester]

On 21/05/2020 at 23:58, The Johnster said:

The squeeze is used to this sort of thing by now and just rolled her eyes...

 

Transfers to dry overnight and she'll be reading tomorrow for a coat of acrylic matt varnish, then the weathering and the lamp irons, then she can pose for her photo. 

 

I've only just seen this, but I do congratulate you. Your beloved must be very tolerant.

[The Johnster]

4 hours ago, Bishop of Welchester said:

 

I've only just seen this, but I do congratulate you. Your beloved must be very tolerant.

Anybody who knows me must be very tolerant...

[The Johnster]

The Dock Authority loco has arrived, and I'm pleased with it.  It's been restored, as evidenced by the cross head pick up plate retaining screws, but looks to have been sensitively done and could be mistaken for a new loco at first sight.  I'm not sure off hand when Triang stopped making these, but she's pretty old, certainly the oldest thing at Cwmdimbath bar the operator, and the body tooling is very good taking that into consideration; clean, crisp, rivet and louvre detail, a very convincing radiator grill, nice chrome surround to the headlamp housing, and the separate horn is quite hi fi for what is basically a 1950s model.  And the light works!  And running her gives that wonderful electric arcing smell that takes me straight back to the Triangs of my childhood!  She's by no means noisy for such an old model, either, and slow running is creditable.

 

There's work to be done before she can be put in service. though.  Wheels need looking at as initial test runs suggest trouble at flangeways, but she runs fine on plain code 100.  The flanges don't look that bad but the wheel profile is pretty conical and thick, and of course I've yet to look at b2bs.  Beyond that, new big industrial buffers, cab glazing,  perhaps an alteration to the front window profile (it thinks it's a Deltic), cab detail to hide the gubbinses, a repaint into an as yet undecided livery, which might be black or might not, and maybe some separate handrails for the cab doors.  The silver painted radiator grille will have to go...

 

I've a sort of ultimate intention to convert her to a jackshaft driven coupled 0-4-0 chassis; for the time being she's a DH, and perhaps a bit unlikely for a colliery in the early 50s.  She looks the part well enough, though.

 

A pair of Dapol minerals, a BR liveried 6-plank and a late GW liveried steel 20 tonner (N30?), are on their way.  The new fiddle yard is capable of longer coal trains, and an extra 4 are eventually to be purchased, the other 2 will PO 7 plankers to be repainted in the well known early 50s all over grime livery and generally distressed; I want to improve the ratio of wooden to steel minerals a bit, and might actually withdraw one or two steels to replace them with 7 plankers in time.   

 

Before any of this, I must finish off the current task, which is the rewiring of the problem 56xx.  This has a new baseplate from Barwell, delivered last week 3 days after ordering, excellent and reassuring service.

Edited June 16, 2020 by The Johnster

[tomparryharry]

Have a look at the BTH type 02 (or, is it 01)? We had a similar loco at Caerphily, and another at the Gwili. Both long gone nowadays.  RT models, perhaps?

 

No, not RT models apparently. I'll have a little look.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by tomparryharry
update

[The Johnster]

Judith Edge?  01 were the Holyhead Breakwater locos, 02 were 170hp Yorkshire Loco Co. 4-coupled DH, 03 and 04 were the Drewry engined 204hp DMs, 05 were the Hunslets as modelled by Heljan, 06 were the Hornby Railroad Andrew Barclay 204hp 4 coupled DMs, which should have jackshaft drive but don't, 07 is the Ruston/Hornsby Southampton Docks 275hp DE.  All of these bar 07 are BR adaptations of commercial industrial designs, and would suit my colliery well enough, though 05 and 07 are a bit modern looking and 03/4 are a bit too 'big railway' for my taste,  Dock Authority will do for now, but an RTR jackshaft driven 0-4-0 chassis would be nice...

 

I 'get it' from the RTR companies' point of view; a 4-coupled industrial diesel lends itself very easily to the world of starter sets and needs to be basic and without too much fiddly delicate detail that will only be broken off in play.  The market in small properly modelled steam industrials has taken off over the last few years, though, successfully, and I live in hope that something better than the Hornby Sentinels might yet appear for a 1950s industrial use by grownups.  Of course, that will probably be a replacement of the Dock Authority, and it might be worth my while looking at what is available in the world of jackshaft driven cheap'n' cheerful H0!

Edited June 16, 2020 by The Johnster

[ianathompson]

1 hour ago, The Johnster said:

it might be worth my while looking at what is available in the world of jackshaft driven cheap'n' cheerful H0!

 

There are plenty of Roco mechanisms under electric locos which are relatively cheap.

 

I bought one last week with a view to replacing my ailing outside framed 0-6-2T station pilot.

Forunately I did manage to revive the steamer but a look at the chassis, which has the jackshaft attached to an exposed wheel, suggested an early BR diesel shunter.

Something will doubtless emerge onto my 016.5 layout eventually.

 

Ian T

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Have a look at the BTH type 02 (or, is it 01)? We had a similar loco at Caerphily, and another at the Gwili. Both long gone nowadays.  RT models, perhaps?

 

No, not RT models apparently. I'll have a little look.

 

The Yorkshire shunter at Caerphilly (which was the one later at the Gwili, I thought?) was an industrial DE, not a DH like the 02, which is actually significantly shorter than the industrial version.

 

I share Johnster's liking for the DA shunter; I have one which was a treasured purchase before my teens and is still in a red Hornby box somewhere as they were certainly made until the very early 80s.  It does need some hazard stripes front and back, oh the fun of adding those......

[tomparryharry]

42 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

The Yorkshire shunter at Caerphilly (which was the one later at the Gwili, I thought?) was an industrial DE, not a DH like the 02, which is actually significantly shorter than the industrial version.

 

I share Johnster's liking for the DA shunter; I have one which was a treasured purchase before my teens and is still in a red Hornby box somewhere as they were certainly made until the very early 80s.  It does need some hazard stripes front and back, oh the fun of adding those......

 

Hello Northmoor. Yes, you're quite right. Both locomotives came from a steelworks at Newport (Whiteheads?) We used one for a while, until a radiator packed up. No-one had the inclination to get it repaired, so it went for scrap. I understand the other loco shared the same fate.

 

I 'think' the model I alluded to is the DJH model. 

 

Edit:- No it's not, it's the ALD model. Looks quite good from here.

Edited June 16, 2020 by tomparryharry
Update.

[Northmoor]

28 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Hello Northmoor. Yes, you're quite right. Both locomotives came from a steelworks at Newport (Whiteheads?) We used one for a while, until a radiator packed up. No-one had the inclination to get it repaired, so it went for scrap. I understand the other loco shared the same fate.

 

I 'think' the model I alluded to is the DJH model. 

 

Edit:- No it's not, it's the ALD model. Looks quite good from here.

Very sad how often industrial diesels in "preservation" are simply discarded when no-one would even consider doing the same to an ex-BR diesel with the same faults.  It doesn't help that they tend to have been donated from industrial concerns, so the owning railway has made no previous investment in them.

[tomparryharry]

1 minute ago, Northmoor said:

Very sad how often industrial diesels in "preservation" are simply discarded when no-one would even consider doing the same to an ex-BR diesel with the same faults.  It doesn't help that they tend to have been donated from industrial concerns, so the owning railway has made no previous investment in them.

 

Very often, it's a technical gap that means the diesel locomotive stays on the siding, while the steam loco is cobbled back together.  there are a lot of "I know what I'm doing" types, whom I wouldn't trust with a blunt dishcloth.  A crippled 03 arrived from Coedely with missing engine parts. I think the 3 lads had it going in about 2 weeks. Nice loco too.  Nowadays, it's doing sterling work on the Gwili. 

[The Johnster]

My DA has been stripped down and cleaned, and tested more comprehensively, and is running very smoothly now.  B2bs were checked and found to be about 1mm too narrow, so the wheels were eased out a little and the loco now has no objection to my flangeways.  the headlight bulb and it's housing have been removed, as they were causing an intermittent short and I suspected the bulb was drawing more current than it should, despite it's rather feeble glow.  Removing has had a beneficial effect; the motor starts running on number 2 on the controller as opposed to 3 earlier and slow running is not too bad considering the age of the model and the gear ratio.  I may at some time replace the headlight with an led.  The naked screw on the top will eventually be hidden by something I haven't decided on yet, some sort of box with a grille on top whose purpose I'm sure some diesel fan can suggest to me.  The space left by the lamp will be filled with a lump of nice heavy Milliput with Liquid Lead in it.  Good little loco for £18 BIN.