South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[br2975]

Found some prototype photos of the general Cwmdinbath area, of which you may be interested ?

[Fat Controller]

Nice view showing how pit props could be loaded, Brian

[Northmoor]

Some really interesting detail in those shots.

- A consistent architecture confirms there was almost nothing man-made there until the pit and the village were built.

- At least two grades of coal in the wagons, household/loco and presumably power station fuel in the furthest rake.  Did they really fill them that full?

- You get some idea of how many pit props the industry got through! But why are they (inbound) in the same train as coal (outbound)?

- There's a lot of abandoned NG coal tubs on that hillside!

[The Johnster]

Thanks Brian; great stuff!  Top photo is Nantymoel, given away by the presence of the A4061 road leading up to Bwlch y Clawdd and ultimately down the other side to Treorchy.  Not much to give the date away but I’d suggest the 1950s on the basis of the modern road markings and lack of street lighting and tv aerials, and of private cars.  Cwmdimbath is about a mile southeast of where the photographer is standing, over a 1,600 foot mountain. 
 

2nd shot may be Nantymoel as well or possibly Blaengarw.  It's obviously a railrour, and shows how pitprops were loaded very well.  The absence of XPO wooden mineral wagons suggests close to end of steam, 64 or 5. 

[The Johnster]

8 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Some really interesting detail in those shots.

- A consistent architecture confirms there was almost nothing man-made there until the pit and the village were built.

- At least two grades of coal in the wagons, household/loco and presumably power station fuel in the furthest rake.  Did they really fill them that full?

- You get some idea of how many pit props the industry got through! But why are they (inbound) in the same train as coal (outbound)?

- There's a lot of abandoned NG coal tubs on that hillside!

Yes, they filled them that full, gross weight of 21 tons per wagon; 16 tons is the amount of coal carried.  The pit props are probably merely stabled on the same siding as the loaded minerals rather than being in the same train.  
 

It may be a trick of the light, but the pannier’s number plate looks as if somebody’s given it a coat of red background paint for the occasion as well as white buffers snd smokebox door hinges.  This livery variation was common in early BR days but long gone by the time the ferret and dartboard totem arrived on the scene. 

[The Johnster]

In expectation of self isolation and nothing to do with wanting them anyway (well, not much, anyway, meaning ‘quite a lot, really), the Dimbath Valley Railway Company have held a general meeting in the back bar of the non-political, and the acquisition committee has been authorised to order some NPCCS kits from Hattons.  A Fruit D to replace the troublesome Dapol, and a Python are on their way. 
 

The squeeze has been unwell which has limited my modelling but I have cobbled up a wagon sized load of pit props from barbie skewers, inspired by Brian’s photo.  

Edited March 17, 2020 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

The Python was assembled last night.  No real problems and I've fitted NEM couplings on Parkside mounts.  The kit came with some very nice turned brass buffers.  It'll be painted in the week, but not today as I've got to accompany the Squeeze to hospital out patients for an appointment.  BR crimson and possibly a 'Return to Bristol' branding as an excuse to attach it to returning passenger trains because Bristol have been chasing it up and Control have got involved.  It's an odd looking thing, one of a family of odd looking GW beasts, but has a lot of character; I'm expecting it to become a favourite!

[The Johnster]

 

Siding lurker; red carded, damaged, and derailed 7 planker on the 'old colliery' spur.  This is the 50s and the Ideal Wagon Committee is culling such wagons enthusiastically; it is dubious that this one will ever run again.

 

The Siphon is finished and a photo is on the way, but I'm holding off so I can show you all the finished Parkside Fruit D at the same time.  I started on this this evening, and have got the bodyshell finished and some whitemetal scrap inside as ballast.  It might be a while before this one is completed as I've decided that the kit ventilators and buffers are not up to scratch and will be ordering whitemetal ones from Wizard/Comet, if they're still operating.  There are some apparent anomalies with this kit, with regard to the transfers. The first Fruit Ds were not built until 1938, and the last built GW examples in 1941, so the only GW livery they could have carried would have been the shirtbutton monogram.  This is confirmed in the transfer drawing in the instructions, but there is no shirtbutton on the sheet.  Transfer position drawings are provided for BR pre- and post- 1966, so BR crimson/maroon and BR blue, though the instructions seem to think that the blue livery was introduced in 1964.  It was for D1733 and the XP64 stock but not for anything else for 2 years.  There are no numbers or branding in the post 1966 style.  

 

Not that I'm bothered as 1966 is far too modern for me anyway.  I am yet to decide what livery to paint the van in, as I already have a Dapol Fruit D in crimson, so it might be an idea with a layout period of 1948-58 to go for GW shirtbutton or BR 1956 maroon.  I have shirtbutton xfers on a HMRS sheet.  There  are xfers for 3 numbers in both GW and BR style, which means that I can replace the incorrect white lettering and numbers on the Dapol van with correct BR yellow.  

 

Now, about the wheels.  The Dap came with spoked wheels which caused a few problems, so I've replaced them with Baccy spoked wheels which have improved the behaviour of this vehicle considerably.  But the Parkside kit has disc wheels.  A quick squiz on HMRS Paul's site shows both, and I am assuming unless someone tells me otherwise that both are appropriate for GWR built vans.  GWR vans were gas lit, and both the Dapol and the Parkside have gas cylinders; Paul's photos confirm that BR built vans with electric lighting do not have the gas exhaust vents in the roof, which both the Dapol and Parkside roofs do.  I am reading into this that the Parkside is unsuitable for assembly to represent a BR built van (though conversion would not be difficult) and that the numbers on the xfer sheet reflect this, and are for vans with disc wheels.  

 

Paul's photos, that show the roof, have rainstrips above each pair of doors, which are included on the Dap van, but the Parkside does not have them, which I assume is incorrect, and a pity because it is well detailed in other respects.  The Dap's width is, I am told, 2mm too wide for scale and the Parkside is indeed narrower and therefore presumably correct; both are the same length.  I just won't run them coupled together.

 

[The Johnster]

Fruit D progress.  Chassis is on, the thing runs nicely, brakes, vac and gas cylinders, and handbrake levers all on.  The brakes were very satisfying to mount, and I was able to get them within a gnat's of the wheel tread.  I used Bachmann wagon wheels rather than the Gibsons supplied; I've found that Parkside kits have quite loose fitting wheels and the axles are a tad longer on the Parksides.  Steps tomorrow, and the small steps on brackets look quite fiddly and delicate.  The Dapol Fruit has steel ones which are quite robust.

 

Lining the two vans up against each other shows that running them coupled together, or even in the same train, will be ill-advised.  I'm working to the assumption that the Parkside is the more correct of the two, and the excess width of the Dap shows up very obviously, made worse by the Parkside's being noticeably taller; it certainly looks more like Fruit Ds as I remember them running in the 70s, quite tall and thin.  It'll be some time before this kit is finished and put into service as I'll have to order decent buffers and shell vents for it; the kit ones don't cut the mustard, but if I get the steps on tomoz or Monday I'll be able to paint it and put the xfers on during the week

 

Not to worry, I've got another self isolation project lined up, the improvement of a Hornby LNER long CCT.  This is a nice looking model but has given all sorts of running problems that I've blamed Design Clever for; it's been an inveterate buffer locker and splitter of turnouts and I've decided to take it in hand.  John Isherwood has advised me that the way to replace the wheelsets, which I'm sure is the key to success, is to drill holes to accept top hat inside bearings from the outside of the axle boxes and make good the damage to the axleboxes when you've got the wheels set up square and level.  This makes sense and I'm going to have a go at it.  I have a Hornby Maunsell BY which is built the same way, with the blank axle ends and axleboxes and the axle holding tubes, and this is a lovely model which has never given me any problems whatsoever, so maybe it's not Design Clever that's to blame and I've just got a Friday Afternoon CCT, a bit of a dog.

Edited March 28, 2020 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

The Fruit D is finished, all bar a few jobs which will easily fit in between an operating session tomorrow.  Footboards, coupling mounts, drawhooks, are all on, and I have assembled the footsteps.  I want them to go off hard overnight before I attempt to attach them to the van, as they are spectacularly flimsy little b*ggers, and I am not actually going to attach them until the painting is complete.  It's pension day on Tuesday, so I'll send off for the ventilators and the buffers then., which means the painting, xfers, and sealing varnish will be on when they arrive.   I'll attach couplings (Baccy NEMs) tomoz, I mean later today, and give it a full running test.

 

It's been a mixed bag of a kit, a pleasure to assemble but there are annoying aspects of it.  The flimsy footsteps are one, as are the very low quality buffers and ventilators.  The roof didn't want to fit on the top of the body without leaving gaps at the ends, and needed some physical persuasion to do what I wanted.  The mouldings were creditably sharp, detailed, and flash free, so why are there dimples in the buffers and why is there so much flash on the moulding line of the gas cylinder; come to that, why is there a moulding line on the gas cylinder; if it's originally moulded in two halves wouldn't it be better to let us join them together.

 

Pleasurable though it was, I'm coming to the view that my kitmaking days are numbered.  I found the concentration very tiring (I'm ready to crawl into my pit now) and am stiff in the neck and back.  There are some Comet coaches on the 'to do' list, but I'm thinking now that I might do my proposed A44 Cyclops auto trailer and call it a day.  There's a chassis kit to build as well for an 1854 half cab, but there's probably less fine fiddly work in that than the Comet.  Anyway I'm going to give the kits a rest for a few months,  while I'm still getting some pleasure and satisfaction out of the game, and sticking to RTR.  This feels like a backward step, but age is catching up with me (catching up, more like overtaken) and I need to work within my capabilities, which are not going to improve and will deteriorate, hopefully slowly, over time.  I've done quite a few over the last year, a Comet all 3rd and several goods and mineral wagon kits, mostly Parksides but a couple of Dapol/Kitmaster.  I've also built a K's E116 B set and refurbished 2 K's A31 auto trailers, and scratch built interiors for all of them.  It's been a busy 12 months or so, and a bit of backpedalling on the fiddly stuff is not a bad idea!  Some of the smaller components are getting a bit much for me...

[Northmoor]

Don't get too downhearted Johnster.  Without teaching you to suck eggs (not suggesting you're a grandmother, BTW):

• Make sure your workbench/tabletop and chair are at the right height so you're not stooping.  It is very easy to injure your neck without realising.
• Is your workspace well-lit?
• You may have just spent too long working on it without a break.  Just as with working on PCs/laptops, regular breaks are vital to avoid muscle strains.
• Are you wearing the right glasses or do you need them?  I am 47 and recently started wearing reading glasses for detailed work or reading small print.  It helps a lot in avoiding eye-strain.

Keep at it while you enjoy it.  No-one's measuring you, but we'll miss seeing your efforts.

[88D]

22 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Don't get too downhearted Johnster.  Without teaching you to suck eggs (not suggesting you're a grandmother, BTW):

• Make sure your workbench/tabletop and chair are at the right height so you're not stooping.  It is very easy to injure your neck without realising.
• Is your workspace well-lit?
• You may have just spent too long working on it without a break.  Just as with working on PCs/laptops, regular breaks are vital to avoid muscle strains.
• Are you wearing the right glasses or do you need them?  I am 47 and recently started wearing reading glasses for detailed work or reading small print.  It helps a lot in avoiding eye-strain.

Keep at it while you enjoy it.  No-one's measuring you, but we'll miss seeing your efforts.

All this is good, as I have found over the last year’s modelling. I do not spend too much time  sitting down and crouching over the desk. Nowadays, I stand as much as possible to model, obviously with a raised work surface. I’m short, but not that short! I think I might try out those head visor things with a light on as well.

[88C]

Morning Johnster.

If you feel like you have lost your mojo just stick to playing trains for a while. I think that in these troubled times there may well be a tendency to spend too much time on this wonderful hobby of ours, sounds daft I know but I am trying the little an often approach. Should a project not be going as well as you would like, leave it for the time being and when you return to it things will be fine, there is no deadline so why worry.

 

Keep smiling and we need modellers like yourself to fly the flag for South Wales railways.

 

Brian.

[The Johnster]

Thank you for the support, gentlemen, it is greatly appreciated.  I am due an eye test but of course this has been deferred until the plague is over.  I'm old enough to be a grandmother, but far too pretty...

 

I've finished the Fruit D this evening and am having a celebratory cuppa.  I have resolved the issues with both the Dapol and the Parkside by making a hybrid 'Dapside' (or perhaps Parkol) Fruit D; I have one good Fruit D instead of two that I wasn't 100% happy with.  It is fundamentally the Parkside, but has the footsteps (much more robust), buffers, and most importantly the roof, with it's perfectly acceptable shell vents and rainstrips, from the Dapol, the mortal remains of which have been put in the 'maybe one day' box with the Parkside roof and a vague idea to make a Fruit C (a sort of Fruit D with 2 doors instead of 3) out of it.  A new chassis will need to be sourced; initial thoughts are Parkside Pipe wagon but that's as far as I'm going with it for a while.  I have a nice stash of projects to keep me modelling into my dotage after I've finished the 'necessities' for CwmDB, and this is another one for the backburner.

 

ROTW painting, xfers, and finishing, and it can go into traffic; watch this space for photos!  I'm going to take a break from kits for a while though; next project is to improve a Hornby LNER long CCT with proper wheels and bearings.  Few month back it seemed my life was all B sets and A31 trailers, now it's NPCCS!

 

Stay safe, all!

[tomparryharry]

On 09/03/2020 at 22:16, br2975 said:

Found some prototype photos of the general Cwmdinbath area, of which you may be interested ?

 

Does anyone have a better view of the locomotive number? It looks from here that it might be 4674, a Llantrisant allocation. Of course, I could be wrong again.....

[br2975]

39 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

 

Does anyone have a better view of the locomotive number? It looks from here that it might be 4674, a Llantrisant allocation. Of course, I could be wrong again.....

Unfortunately, it's 9678.

.

But here are a few more shots of the special.......just for you Ian.

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, br2975 said:

Unfortunately, it's 9678.

.

But here are a few more shots of the special.......just for you Ian.

 

Nice one Brian. Cardiff East Dock, until 1965.

[br2975]

On 09/03/2020 at 23:04, The Johnster said:

Thanks Brian; great stuff!  Top photo is Nantymoel, given away by the presence of the A4061 road leading up to Bwlch y Clawdd and ultimately down the other side to Treorchy.  Not much to give the date away but I’d suggest the 1950s on the basis of the modern road markings and lack of street lighting and tv aerials, and of private cars.  Cwmdimbath is about a mile southeast of where the photographer is standing, over a 1,600 foot mountain. 
 

2nd shot may be Nantymoel as well or possibly Blaengarw.  It's obviously a railrour, and shows how pitprops were loaded very well.  The absence of XPO wooden mineral wagons suggests close to end of steam, 64 or 5. 

Second photo is Avon Colliery, Abergwynfi.

.

Brian

[The Johnster]

Inspirational stuff with useful detail, and oozing valley atmosphere; thanks again for these Brian. I particularly like the forest of telegraph poles at Cwmmer Afan, and the drain emptying out of the retaining wall into the river in the last shot; Glyncorrwg?

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, br2975 said:

Second photo is Avon Colliery, Abergwynfi.

.

Brian

 That brick-lined culvert is very model-able. There are two smaller versions on the Blaenavon section. Both are LNWR parentage.

[br2975]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Inspirational stuff with useful detail, and oozing valley atmosphere; thanks again for these Brian. I particularly like the forest of telegraph poles at Cwmmer Afan, and the drain emptying out of the retaining wall into the river in the last shot; Glyncorrwg?

The telegraph poles are really Cymmer Corrwg, give or take.

.

The train had to cross the viaduct 'sans passengers' due to weight restrictions, but, legend has it that a handful hid in the 'bogs' whilst the others walked across the road bridge from Cymmer Afan to Cymmer Corrwg to regain the train for the run up to Glyncorrwg and North Rhondda Colliery / South Pit.

.

The culvert is again at Avon Colliery, Abergwynfi, which remained in production until 1970. Not having a washery, the coal was taken down the valley, through Cymmer Afan to Duffryn Rhondda washery, where after washing and sweetening it was loaded into MGR hoppers, which were taken in short rakes and reassembled at Cymmer Afan for the once a daily round trip to Aberthaw.

.

Regards

 

Brian

[br2975]

There are numerous shots of Abergwynfi on a local history site.

.

Best not fill up the RMWeb memory in one go though !

[The Johnster]

Quite right; the west side of the bridge is Cwmmer Corrwg, my bad!  

 

Stay safe, mate!

[The Johnster]

The latest batch are pure gold, Brian.  I've only ever seen shots of Abergwynfi taken from the fairly obvious position of the road bridge looking down the valley; these show different viewpoints and are very imformative.  First shot shows the school and that my Triang clerestories are not completely unlikely, though the date of this shot is probably pre-war and mine represent and early BR period miners' workmans.  The coach on the extreme right, only the roof is visible, is intriguing!

 

Photo 2 is a question answerer in several respects; I've never seen a shot that shows the Avon Colliery branch beyond the bridge before, nor have I previously seen evidence of a Tondu 4575, this one without auto gear, in 1948 BRITISH RAILWAYS Gill Sans livery: the loco looks fairly clean so I'm guessing this to be the summer of 1948, shadows suggesting about 8 in the morning.  It would be very interesting to identify this loco.

 

No.3 is another answerer of questions,  in this case the use of 64' Hawksworths at Tondu.  The loco is 7753, withdrawn from Tondu in April '63 though it's condition suggests 1958/9.  The colliery gate is shown as is the entrance to the sand drag.  Probably a winter shot despite the similarity of lighting and shadow cast direction, as the steam heating pipes are in place on the loco, though there's no evidence of them being in use...  Note that the shelter just this side of the signal box has vanished between the date of the the last shot and the last one; I believe it was burned down in 1958.

 

No.4 is something i've never seen before; an auto on the Avon branch.  Loco is 6416, not a Tondu resident (AFAIK no early series 64xx, rounded join between cab rear and bunker side sheet/lip at front of cab roof, ever was) but W 192 W certainly was, as were several A44 Cyclops trailers.   Depending on the date, BR Database has 6416 at Radyr or Merthyr, neither obvious sources of locos for an out of course working with Tondu stock.  The working is clearly a railtour and I wonder if it went up to Avon or was simply standing out of the way on the branch.  It's a summer evening, about 6 o'clock, from the shadows.

 

No.5 is another railtour, on a different day at a different time, earlier in the afternoon, and is also standing on the Avon Branch.  The headcode in the trailer (A28 or 30) cab window means it's a fairly late date and the flowers suggest Last Rites as the branch closed to passenger traffic.  The trailer looks as if it's in maroon livery but is unlined, so not W 192 W.  

 

No.6 is dated 1957, includes the shelter, and  is obviously a posed shot of the staff, probably taken by the leading Railman (Abergwyfi didn't have a Stationmaster, it came under Cwmmer Afan for that purpose) who has climbed the starter signal.  What a bunch of 'ooligans!  This is the best shot I've seen of the approach pathway leading from the road down to the station, although looking at the streets in the first and second shots, it's practically level by Abergwnfi standards!.  It's a summer mid-morning and my 1960 WTT shows a gap in the traffic at this time of day.

 

As you may know, Cwmdimbath is 'inspired by' (there are far too many differences and inaccuracies for me to claim it is 'based on') Abergwynfi.  These excellent photos have filled in some gaps and added to my understanding of the general ambience and atmosphere of the place; yet again, thank you!

 

Stay safe.

Edited April 2, 2020 by The Johnster

[saxokid]

6 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

The latest batch are pure gold, Brian.  I've only ever seen shots of Abergwynfi taken from the fairly obvious position of the road bridge looking down the valley; these show different viewpoints and are very imformative.  First shot shows the school and that my Triang clerestories are not completely unlikely, though the date of this shot is probably pre-war and mine represent and early BR period miners' workmans.  The coach on the extreme right, only the roof is visible, is intriguing!

 

Photo 2 is a question answerer in several respects; I've never seen a shot that shows the Avon Colliery branch beyond the bridge before, nor have I previously seen evidence of a Tondu 4575, this one without auto gear, in 1948 BRITISH RAILWAYS Gill Sans livery: the loco looks fairly clean so I'm guessing this to be the summer of 1948, shadows suggesting about 8 in the morning.  It would be very interesting to identify this loco.

 

No.3 is another answerer of questions,  in this case the use of 64' Hawksworths at Tondu.  The loco is 7753, withdrawn from Tondu in April '63 though it's condition suggests 1958/9.  The colliery gate is shown as is the entrance to the sand drag.  Probably a winter shot despite the similarity of lighting and shadow cast direction, as the steam heating pipes are in place on the loco, though there's no evidence of them being in use...  Note that the shelter just this side of the signal box has vanished between the date of the the last shot and the last one; I believe it was burned down in 1958.

 

No.4 is something i've never seen before; an auto on the Avon branch.  Loco is 6416, not a Tondu resident (AFAIK no early series 64xx, rounded join between cab rear and bunker side sheet/lip at front of cab roof, ever was) but W 192 W certainly was, as were several A44 Cyclops trailers.   Depending on the date, BR Database has 6416 at Radyr or Merthyr, neither obvious sources of locos for an out of course working with Tondu stock.  The working is clearly a railtour and I wonder if it went up to Avon or was simply standing out of the way on the branch.  It's a summer evening, about 6 o'clock, from the shadows.

 

No.5 is another railtour, on a different day at a different time, earlier in the afternoon, and is also standing on the Avon Branch.  The headcode in the trailer (A28 or 30) cab window means it's a fairly late date and the flowers suggest Last Rites as the branch closed to passenger traffic.  The trailer looks as if it's in maroon livery but is unlined, so not W 192 W.  

 

No.6 is dated 1957, includes the shelter, and  is obviously a posed shot of the staff, probably taken by the leading Railman (Abergwyfi didn't have a Stationmaster, it came under Cwmmer Afan for that purpose) who has climbed the starter signal.  What a bunch of 'ooligans!  This is the best shot I've seen of the approach pathway leading from the road down to the station, although looking at the streets in the first and second shots, it's practically level by Abergwnfi standards!.  It's a summer mid-morning and my 1960 WTT shows a gap in the traffic at this time of day.

 

As you may know, Cwmdimbath is 'inspired by' (there are far too many differences and inaccuracies for me to claim it is 'based on') Abergwynfi.  These excellent photos have filled in some gaps and added to my understanding of the general ambience and atmosphere of the place; yet again, thank you!

 

Stay safe.

Interesting stuff here Johnster...

 

Thanks neil..