South Wales Valleys in the 50s

[Northroader]

I walked from Glyncorrwg to Treherbert a few years ago, up over the mountain, as it’s on the route of a long distance path. Past North Rhondda and up its all forest with a mountain bike course. Once over the top you come down past Fernhill. I had a scrounge round and found some lumps of nice steam coal, very handy for breaking up and putting in my wagons and bunkers. Then I met a little girl out with her dad for a walk, I showed her my coal, and she showed me her lump of coal, and we were mates.

[The Johnster]

You showed each other your lumps of coal?  In the valleys, that means you are fully betrothed and you are honour bound to marry her as soon as she's of age.  If you fail to do this, her father is obliged by ancient Welsh Law to plug you on a gillicking stick, widdershins.  You'd better start carving your love spoon, mate...

 

If the Glynrhondda Tunnel people get their way, it'll be an easier walk, but the scenery won't be nearly as good!

 

A little progressively progressing progressive progress; I am now painting the Fruit D.  It's a surprisingly complex but satisfying job, with lots of small ledges to be picked out delicately.  With luck I'll be putting the transfers on tomoz.  I'm deliberately trying to eke the work out so that I do not run out of modelling projects while I am self isolated and unable to get out to buy paints, glue, etc from Antics.

[ianathompson]

8 hours ago, Northmoor said:

it's not surprising the area must have had the densest railway network anywhere in the UK.

 

Slightly off topic but...

 

I would not dispute it but the old West Riding area around Leeds, Bradford. Huddersfield must have run it close.

The topography is similar, as was the mining and  the love of rugby (13 aside though!) which I assume is why many Welsh players that moved North stayed there.

After playing cricket one day I once asked one of these old time mercenaries, in the pub, why he had never gone back to the valleys.

His reply staggered me. The people are so much nicer round here he said.

They aren't that bad in South Wales are they?!!

 

Re using coal incidentaly obtained. As an undergraduate I worked as a gravedigger during the summers.

We turned up to dig one grave but had to call the Sexton out as we could not locate it in the overgrown churchyard.

He produced a Victorian map showing that some bodies were buried in a coal seam.

I don;t suppose much of that went back into the grave once the coffin was in!

 

Ian T

[The Johnster]

'Going North' was enough to bring out the worst in all your rugby mates you left behind in South Wales (not that most Welsh rugby players need much to bring out the worst in them at the best of times); you went up there, you never came back, not if you knew what was good for you.  I recall a huge scandal when I lived in the Gwent Valleys at Abertillery when a player went North for a 5 figure fee.  Brynmawr for £10.12½p...

Edited April 4, 2020 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

The Fruit D is complete and the xfers have been affixed; it has taken an identity as W 2321 W in BR crimson, though I am taking a punt as to whether this vehicle ever carried this livery!  The loose ends, a coat of rattlecan acrylic matt varnish to seal the xfers and a wash of light weathering to bring out the planking, will be tied up tomoz, and she'll be in service on the next parcels up to Remploy.

 

LNER long CCT next.  This is a Hornby improvement project to replace the wheelsets with proper pin point axles and involves drilling through the axleboxes from the outside, because you can't get an angle to do it properly from the inside to fit bearings, and having to make good the axlebox detail.  I'm not sure that I'll be able to salvage the brake detail from the 'design clever' tubular wheelset holders, and may have to invest in a Parkside kit as a chassis donor, but something has to be done as it's never run properly.  I have a Maunsell BY/Van C which uses the same design and is a perfectly behaved van, one of my favourite Hornby models.   

[The Johnster]

Been doing a bit of proper modelling this evening, assembling the Ratio signal box interior that I bought in about 1990.  Nearly done and will paint everything and install in the box over the next few days.  I am going to be experimenting with internal lighting in the box. 

[The Johnster]

Kit built and painted, and installed in the box, looking good!  I particularly enjoyed painting the books on the bookshelf, brown, black, blue, and re spines and a cream top for the pages.
 

Busy tomoz with a hospital visit but might try to install lighting in the evening; more about this when I’ve done it cos I’m not 100% sure what I’m going to do yet... 

[tomparryharry]

9 hours ago, The Johnster said:

 

Busy tomoz with a hospital visit but might try to install lighting in the evening; more about this when I’ve done it cos I’m not 100% sure what I’m going to do yet... 

 

You lucky bu66er! I've got jobs coming out of my ar$e, and when I finish one, Mrs Smith casually says:- "What about...?" 

[The Johnster]

Writing from clinic now just.  It’s such a nice day we’re thinking about walking home through the park; should take about an hour, more if we stop to look at the flowers...

 

Then home, Haddock’n’chips for tea, lounge about a bit, watch tele, think about having a look at the signalbox lighting, maybe do something about it depending on how I feel.  And so to bed...

 

Not helping, am I uncle Ian?

[tomparryharry]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Writing from clinic now just.  It’s such a nice day we’re thinking about walking home through the park; should take about an hour, more if we stop to look at the flowers...

 

Then home, Haddock’n’chips for tea, lounge about a bit, watch tele, think about having a look at the signalbox lighting, maybe do something about it depending on how I feel.  And so to bed...

 

Not helping, am I uncle Ian?

 

No, but I'll let you off. I'm not due to start on my stuff until Monday. I have excellent neighbours, and I want to keep it that way. This afternoon has been spent trimming up some boards, ready for use. I don't know  what use it will be, but at least I'll have it 'in stock'.  I very deliberately spurned the circular saw, in favour of the hand saw. That way, I got some exercise as well.

 

Funnily enough, it's Haddock here as well, but it might be boiled potatoes instead of chips. Have you been looking through my kitchen window?   

[The Johnster]

Do I take from the presence of boiled spuds that this is smoked haddock?  I have never liked this since it was forced on me as a child; ours is in breadcrumbs from Aldi and will be livened up with Tesco's Finest Tartare.  We came home on the bus in the end as it was too hot for walking, and K wanted to get the most use out of here £4 day ticket.  News is good; her liver seems to be functioning well and the gastro-doc reckons will be fully functioning in about 3 or 4 months, but the damage is permanent and chronic, so she will die if she goes back on the booze and will need tablets every day for the rest of her life (but, doctor, there's only 3...).  It does feel as if a weight has been lifted!

 

Take care and stay safe.

[The Johnster]

Meanwhile, back at Cwmdimbath...  The lighting experiment has not gone well but I have a better idea of what is required to make it go well, so not a complete lack of progress, just progress in the sense of increasing my understanding of what to do next rather than in the sense of anything lighting the signal box to the level I want.  I need lower lighting and the inside of the roof painted white to diffuse it more.

 

But the evening has not been wasted.  I have been going through all the RTR and kit coaching stock that needs doorknobs and grab handles picking out in brass enamel (brass acrylic is a bit of a joke) and picking said accoutrements out with the aforementioned brass enamel applied with the end of a cocktail stick.  This has considerably improved the overall look of some of my coaches and NPCCS, and from a distance they stand comparison with the Hornby Collett suburbans.  I've achieved a bit this week and will have a rest from modelling over the weekend; I feel an mammoth operating session coming on.  I likes operating mammoths, me...

[The Johnster]

It's lockdown, you've got nothing else to do, so I'll tell you all all about the lights.  I have had in the back of my mind some form of layout lighting for some time, well, since the layout was begun really.  It all goes back to events in the late 60s that were the inspiration for this layout in the first place in a very large part.  The first of these events was a picnic with my mate Graham and his 'rents by the Dimbath river, in 1966 or7; it was one of their favourite spots and I could see why.  An unspoiled wooded valley with high mountains surrounding it, and a lovely crystal clear stream running at the bottom of it, a sylvan idyll even now little known outside the immediate area.  Of my current chums, only one has ever been to the place and she's from Gilfach Goch just over the mountain barely a mile away; it is still remote and out of the way, and it's upper reaches are very remote.  This is what the rest of Mid Glamorgan must have looked like before the collieries and before all the trees went for pit props.

 

The second was an August day in 1969 when I went with the spotting lads, including Graham, on an expedition to the NCB's system at Maesteg.  We returned via Cwmmer Afan and Treherbert, and missed the bus over the mountain at Cwmmer because we were checking out the station.  It had been getting darker on what had been a hot and hazy day, and nobody was that surprised when the rain announced itself with a flash of lightning and a crack of thunder that reverberated around the mountains and made us fairly glad not to be on the bus 1,500 feet or so up where all this was kicking off.  Luckily, Cwmmer Afan has (still, though no train has been for nearly 50 years) a licensed buffet, 'The Refresh', which we were able to take shelter in while we waited for the bus to come back.  Couple of shandys and a steak and kidney each and we were in no hurry!

 

I have waxed lyrical on this topic before about this event, so won't purple prose it again.  But there we were, in broad daylight of a sort, and the station lights were on, as were the ones in the signal box and the Refresh, and an office or two.  This had the effect of making the rest of the scene look even more dark and dismal, and I would love to recreate it at Cwmdimbath.  

 

The way to go is warm led lights, and the lighting level is critical.  The lights inside buildings have to be bright enough to be visible with the layout lighting on it's lowest setting, but I hate overbright lighting (which is about 98% of it) on layouts, so within the above remit it must be as dim as possible to prevent light bleed through building walls and so on.  Last night's experiment was very promising, using warm white 'micro' string leds intended as Xmas or wedding cake decoration from Poundland, but still too bright.  Cheap though, no disaster that I've now destroyed them playing around to see what I could do with them trying to power them off a single AA battery.

 

I think the way to go is with this sort of lighting, but it must be dimmable.  I've found 2 sets of 50 on a string on Amazon for £8 and will be ordering come pension day on Wednesday.  They have 'modes' but so long as they can be set to 'on' and can be dimmed I should be able to do something with them, though I am guessing that 'dimmable' means pre-set lighting levels and not a variable slider or knob.  I likes a variable knob, me, for dimming...   Of course, I don't need 50 lights; they are about every 6 inches on the cable.  

 

I don't want to lightproof the inside of the Ratio signal box to prevent light bleeding through the plastic either, as it has printed detail on the back wall.  So, to prevent light going where I don't want it, and to obscure the unwanted leds, I need to build light boxes.  Some sort of plastic tubing from cable insulation will probably do the job, and one hopes that on the 'dimmest' setting the heat generated by the leds will not be a problem.  

 

Such is the plan, and we will see if it works or not.  There will be quite a bit of wiring to hide behind buildings and the platform, and much may end up being buried beneath what will become the Afon Dimbath at some time in the future.  

 

All this brings on ideas for night operation; the real Abergwynfi Branch was in operation until 23.55 although the box switched out at 20.00 and the branch worked OEIS with autos after that, so there's a good bit of scope, especially if Rule 1 says the colliery works a night shift.  Sadly, until someone devises a system of removable head, tail, and brake van side, lamps this will not be possible.  If it is done, it will be rather restricted to an auto shuttling back and forth with on board supply for carriage, head, and tail lights with direction switching for the head and tail lamp, said auto being permanently coupled and needing battery supply hidden beneath the trailers or in the guard's compartments.  Did auto trailers have cab lighting; I don't think they did?

 

Two lighting sets means that there can be two circuits, and that they can be on different 'dimmages' (it is a perfectly cromulent word even if I did just make it up; it says exactly what I want to say exactly how I want it said, so there), which will give a degree of flexibility on operation.  Perhaps the station building lights can be on a separate circuit to the signal box and the goods office (which will need an interior built for it) and on the same circuit as Remploy's loading platform or the Cwmdimbath Non-Political Working Men's Sports And Social Club (in the Nissen Hut, sedition spoken freely and the downfall of western capitalism planned every Thursday night, bring your own sandwiches, licensing laws liberally interpreted so the light can be visible behind closed curtains).

 

With any luck, playing around with this could keep me going until the lockdown finishes and I can go up the pub again!

[Darwinian]

Don't know if this is any help Johnster but I've used lighting tubes as used in the Pendon buildings book, which help to reduce the lighting level and can be adjusted by where the lamp/led is positioned in the tube.

 

If you've not seen this it's basically just a squarish tube made of white (on the inside} card with openings cut to allow light out into the building. The closer the lamp is to an opening the brighter the light, but you get a fairly diffused light because most of the light reflects around the tube. Another advantage is that  no light leaks out elsewhere so the tube can pass through unlit areas without problem.

 

My ratio signal box has a card box built into the roof with holes in to allow light down in a couple of places as if from a pair of suspended lamps. It really is quite dim in there despite the fairly bright warm white LED used.

[ianathompson]

Re signalbox lighting.

 

Most signalmen of my acquaintance prefferred to operate with no lights or very few lights in the box.

I myself usually turned the lights out , if I had them on, whenever I accepted a train as it helped to develop "night sight" before the train arrived.

You were supposed to be watching the train to make sure that everything was okay and to see the tail lamp.

The only essential light was for the train register.

 You could easily operate the boxes with the light given off from signal and point repeaters.

 

 Ian T

[tomparryharry]

Do these LEDs give off any heat? If so, I contemplated putting a thin wash of paint over the LED to give it that distinctive glow.

[jcm@gwr]

On the buildings I've illuminated for a friends layout, I used GoW or GoR lamps,

because that's what he had. 

I stuck a bit of kitchen foil into the roof which helps spreads the light, but also

reflects the heat, we then used an old controller to get the lighting levels right.

[The Johnster]

On 25/04/2020 at 21:31, ianathompson said:

Re signalbox lighting.

 

Most signalmen of my acquaintance prefferred to operate with no lights or very few lights in the box.

I myself usually turned the lights out , if I had them on, whenever I accepted a train as it helped to develop "night sight" before the train arrived.

You were supposed to be watching the train to make sure that everything was okay and to see the tail lamp.

The only essential light was for the train register.

 You could easily operate the boxes with the light given off from signal and point repeaters.

 

 Ian T

This is a very good point, but I am intending to have lights on in dim daylight to suggest a gloomy and wet day.  The challenge for proper night operation with the Ratio interior kit I've used is to wire up the anglepoise lamp, within the space provided by it's lampshade, and leave a small pool of light on the register, which is open on the desk, and it would take a better modeller than me to pull that one off.  If I ever do attempt night running the signal box lights will stay off, one of the advantages of having 2 separate circuits!

 

16 hours ago, tomparryharry said:

Do these LEDs give off any heat? If so, I contemplated putting a thin wash of paint over the LED to give it that distinctive glow.

This was one of the purposes of the experiment the other day, to see how much heat is given off and if it's going to be a problem.  Heat is another reason for operating the leds at something below their maximum rated voltage, and one of the reasons for stipulating that the led chains are dimmable.

 

On 25/04/2020 at 20:33, Darwinian said:

Don't know if this is any help Johnster but I've used lighting tubes as used in the Pendon buildings book, which help to reduce the lighting level and can be adjusted by where the lamp/led is positioned in the tube.

The Pendon method may well prove useful, as I am conscious that the leds should not be visible and light needs to be diffused around the space.  I have already painted the inside of the signal box roof white and will be doing the same with the other buildings.  These are a goods office which started life as a Wills Coal Merchant's office, and will be much like a miniature signal box; I will probably make a desk and a chair to go inside it but the window is small and not much can be seen inside there.  I'm assuming the desk will be visible because it is by the window so as to be lit by natural light.  

 

The other main building to be lit is the station building.  This is a Hornby NER wooden station building Westernised by the addition of a canopy and a  and a further NER building with a door and window cut off attached at one end, all in a WR brown and cream livery, with a profile of window/door/window/window/door/window/door.  The doors are waiting room, enquiries, and porters only, and there are internal walls to go in before the lighting is fitted, not to mention opaque glass for enquiries and porters.  Not all the rooms need to be lit.  The station is accessed by footpath and a ticket booth is provided at the fence gate; there is no booking hall as such.  As the building is basically two resin castings superglued together, I am not expecting any light shining through the walls at the lighting levels I am aiming for, but I'll need to keep the light sources away from the doors and window frames which are where the resin is thinnest and most translucent, and where back painting will be quite difficult in the case of the window frames .  OTOH if the lighting is too offset from these locations the thickness of the resin will be revealed as an incongruous shaded area inside the door and window reveals.  I don't think I can get away much with interior detail here, and the ultimate solution might be a scratch build station building.  A flickering fire in the waiting room might be fun, but is probably overkill.

Edited April 27, 2020 by The Johnster

[Darwinian]

On 25/04/2020 at 21:31, ianathompson said:

Re signalbox lighting.

 

Most signalmen of my acquaintance prefferred to operate with no lights or very few lights in the box.

I myself usually turned the lights out , if I had them on, whenever I accepted a train as it helped to develop "night sight" before the train arrived.

You were supposed to be watching the train to make sure that everything was okay and to see the tail lamp.

The only essential light was for the train register.

 You could easily operate the boxes with the light given off from signal and point repeaters.

 

 Ian T

I guess it must be a personal thing then.

In his book “Signalling Days” Harold Gasson gives a vivid description of trying to operate Milton box, on GWR mainline, whilst trying to light and hang the emergency paraffin lanterns after a lightning strike took out the electric lights.

I did wonder about sighting tail lamps from an illuminated box.

[ianathompson]

5 minutes ago, Darwinian said:

I guess it must be a personal thing then.

In his book “Signalling Days” Harold Gasson gives a vivid description of trying to operate Milton box, on GWR mainline, whilst trying to light and hang the emergency paraffin lanterns after a lightning strike took out the electric lights.

 

I have operated boxes when the local electricity supply was cut out. 

I didn't have a problem with it,

I used the Bardic to see the TRB whenever I needed to make an entry.

 

Ian T

Edited April 27, 2020 by ianathompson
typo

[tomparryharry]

It is easier to operate a box in subdued light. Indoor light bounces off reflected surfaces, so although you can see perfectly well inside, but

looking through to outside is a different matter. 

[The Johnster]

Tail lamps, and headcode panels/head lamps/marker lamps, are fairly easily seen through the windows of a box lit at night, particularly if a window is open.  Most boxes I remember in the 70s seemed to work with their lights on at night, but not all; it was clearly a matter of personal preference for the bobby on duty.  At least one window, usually one of the end ones, seemed to be open most of the time unless the weather was seriously inclement, the downwind one if it was breezy, as it was important the the bobby had a good view out and also needed to see his 'fog object', usually the backlight of a signal lamp, which he used to determine visibility and call out fogmen if necessary when he couldn't see it.   Closed windows are prone to condensation especially if the kettle is on, which it usually was simmering away quietly, so a window tended to be open.

 

A track circuited box has a good bit of ambient light from the circuit occupied indicators on the panel above the frame.  A Bardic is sufficient for TRB entries; it's what we used in brake vans!  Internal lighting in boxes was not that bright anyway, probably 25 watt and certainly no more than 40 watt filament bulbs.  The warm dim look is the one to go for.

 

I've ordered my leds, and a new wagon; I've decided that Cwmdimbath occasionally needs salt in a covered salt wagon.  A BIN ICI vehicle has been procured on 'Bay and is on it's way in the morning.  But there's bigger news; Cwmdimbath has got a new water tower!  I've been not 100% happy with the one I've got for a while; cast whitemetal, Springside or Dart Castings, can't remember which.  Nothing I can put my finger on, it's just 'off' somehow.  So I've pre-ordered a Dapol conical top in choc/cream, the static one not the motorised with sound which is a little gimmicky and pricey for my taste.  Apparently these are not too far off being delivered, and Rails of Sheffield have got dibs on my money, £25 including P/P.  The leds are free postage on Amazon Prime and should be ready for collection from my local petrol station tomorrow.  

 

And that's me spending money gone for another 2 weeks!!!

[The Johnster]

Leds have arrived, following day Amazon Prime free delivery offer, salt wagon expected next week, water tower dispatched expected tomoz or Monday.  I've cobbled up a stock storage system out of cardboard boxes and pva on the wall behind the fy; I'd been looking into an Ikea Billy for this but the boxes are a) on hand, and b) the right price.  Despite the rough and ready look, the Squeeze approves of my inventiveness and the recycled credentials.  She also approves of the salt wagon for some reason, perhaps it is a product that is something she knows and identifies with; Poland has huge salt mines and she was a bit surprised to find that we had some as well, though nowhere near as extensive, in Cheshire and North Staffs.  Her region, Silesia, is a coal mining area and her father an ex-miner, so she approves of my coal trains with real coal as well.  She seems ambivalent so far about the water tower, but appreciates that 'lokomotiwa' need it.

 

Some experimentation with the micro leds suggests that they will do the job.  I bought them because the Amazon advert claimed they were 'dimmable'.  They are intended as xmas or party lights and have a feature in which they dim, then repeat, but this is not 'dimmable' in the sense that I wanted, and as that was the specific reason for my ordering these specific lights, I'm a bit miffed.  They seem well made and robust, though, and I have already achieved 'steady dimniscity' (new word I invented, perfectly cromulent) levels by wiring past one of the 3 AA batteries in the holder, so that the voltage is reduced from 4.5 to 3.  I.5v is apparently insufficient to light them at all.   Permanent steady dimniscity can be achieved with an old controller but I'm happy enough with the batteries for now, and interested to see how long Duracells last me.  £7.97 for 2 sets of 50 seems reasonable

 

So, all being well, and lockdown meaning that, like friggin' in the riggin', there's f*** all else to do, we may have a lit interior in the signal box, and possibly other places as well, soon.  This will, I hope, convey the atmosphere and impression of a rainy day in the Valleys, which is quite a lot of them... 

[Nick C]

Have you been round the salt mines in Poland? They're seriously impressive, especially the full-size underground cathedral in Wieliczka.

[The Johnster]

Managed to get the first lot of lights working, with very little bleed at 3v. 2 of the 3 rooms in the station building, porters and office, and the signalbox, along with 3 lights on the trading estate platform, 2 undrr the canopy and one mounted beneath the estate water tower.  
 

Here’s sum fo toes wot i tuk, for some reason you have to lie on your side for two of them.   I’m happy with the subdued effect; a lot of real lighting was pretty useless in the 50s and this is the effect I was going for.  Platform lighting to sort put next!