Andrew's occasional forays in Italy

[brushman47544]

With family from Umbria in central Italy, we make at least two or three visits each year and I even get to take the odd photos of Italian trains. After posting a photo in response to a comment on another thread, I thought I might create a separate thread and post the occasional photo here as Italy seems to be missed out in terms of photos of the current railway scene. They really will be occasional though, as I don't always get to take any photos! So I'll post a few and see where we go. Feel free to comment or ask questions - I'll answer if I can.

 

Starting in July 2015, here are a few photos taken at Foligno, where the line from Roma splits for Perugia/Firenze and for Ancona/Ravenna.

 

An E655 loco from the cargo sector stabled for shunting purposes and a D245 shunter used to move electric sets and units between the station platforms and the unelectrified sidings. The OML Foligno (which is responsible for overhauling Trenitalia electric locos) is behind the buildings centre-right.

 

A wide view of the works stabling sidings, where a large number of withdrawn E.444R and E.491 locos were stored during summer 2015. They are not there now.

 

The omnipresent E464 loco, in this case E464.512, at Foligno on a regional arrival from Firenze. The R trains between Roma and Ancona and between Foligno and Firenze, along with plenty of shorter workings, are worked by E.464 locos allocated to Ancona depot.

 

More to follow...

Edited January 5, 2017 by brushman47544

[Alcanman]

Always good to see FS pics. Thanks for posting, Andrew.

[jjb1970]

Given that Italy is one of the worlds more photogenic countries, a country of great variety it is a bit surprising it has never seemed to capture the imagination of UK rail enthusiasts. The food is fabulous, the country is full of historical interest and the people tend to be good fun, what's not to like? Italy has some very impressive and stylish trains. I know many hated the isabella livery but I even love designs like the E636 & E428 in isabella. Very modellable too, there is no shortage of superb Italian models and prices are often not far removed from OO rtr.

[Alcanman]

Agree with jjb. The E636 are also one of my favourites and 20 years ago they were also the most numerous.

 

The  brown 'Isabella' livery seems to add to the character of these locos.

 

Lake Garda is a popular holiday destination  and Desenzano is a good place for train-watching.

 

 

 

 

Here is another E636  at Trento 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[brushman47544]

Moving forward to December 2015, I took some photos at Roma Termini one afternoon. I'll post in two batches.

 

A brand new E464 loco (possibly 713) in the then new regional Jazz livery with a matching rake of Vivalto double deck coaches. These are used on services to the south of Rome, such as to Nettuno and Frascati, and to Civitavecchia on the coast.

 

Another Vivalto rake in the Jazz livery, this time headed by E464.699. Trenitalia makes no attempt to keep Jazz and XPMR liveried locos and coaches together, so in a way I was surprised to see two uniform rakes within a short period. In case anyone doesn't know, the black and orange triangles in the round disk above the RH buffer signifies a fixed rake operated in push-pull mode.

 

One of the Vivalto driving trailers, in this case in one of the highest numbered platforms - and a long walk from the main concourse - waiting to depart for Civitavecchia. An unseen E464.213 was on the other end. There are also new-ish platforms on the other side of the station, reached from the end of platform 1, that are used by regional trains to Ancona, Firenze and Perugia. E.464s are almost exclusively to be found on the Roma Termini buffer stops end of regional trains.

 

 

 

[brushman47544]

I know many hated the isabella livery but I even love designs like the E636 & E428 in isabella. Very modellable too, there is no shortage of superb Italian models and prices are often not far removed from OO rtr.

 

Personally I prefer the two-tone brown Castano/Isabella version to the plain brown Isabella, but they're both much better than XPMR. Don't like Frecciabianca either, or what looks like has been chosen for the new intercity sun livery for Intercity services http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/4450. They all have far too much white. My personal favourite is blu-orientale/grigio-perla as carried by the E.656 locos and the Bandiera scheme for coaches.

 

I agree on the models. There's not just Rivarossi and Lima Expert but ACME and LE Models are also producing some superb locos in HO.

 

Edit: to add link to photo of new IC livery

Edited January 6, 2017 by brushman47544

[Allegheny1600]

Given that Italy is one of the worlds more photogenic countries, a country of great variety it is a bit surprising it has never seemed to capture the imagination of UK rail enthusiasts. The food is fabulous, the country is full of historical interest and the people tend to be good fun, what's not to like? Italy has some very impressive and stylish trains. I know many hated the isabella livery but I even love designs like the E636 & E428 in isabella. Very modellable too, there is no shortage of superb Italian models and prices are often not far removed from OO rtr.

Agreed 100%

But, as Jordan pointed out in the "Jokes" section, most UK enthusiasts just don't get it!

 

UK locos have much shorter distances to travel, pulling much shorter trains   and will be missing certain items such as dynamic brakes equipment.

 

I do apologise; I forgot that most UK modellers have absolutely zero interest in any railways beyond these shores, as manifested at a lot of exhibitions, where they bypass 'Foreign' layouts - regardless of the quality of modelling - as they "can't relate to it"; so this photo would not be appreciated in the general area of this Forum...

 

It actually makes me quite sad, I get this at my local club too - folk neither like nor want to be interested in anything outside their own little niche.

Makes me just want to pack up and leave!

 

Sorry for lowering the tone of this fine topic.

[brushman47544]

So here's the second batch from Roma Termini in December 2015; this time mostly Intercity services.

 

E403.001 arriving on an IC train from Taranto via Foggia. These locos look pretty much the same as the E402B locos but are slightly longer and have exposed underframe equipment - the easiest way to tell them apart from a distance. The E403s were originally intended for the cargo sector, which then decided it preferred new build TRAXX locos, which are just now starting to arrive http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/4483). The long distance passenger sector mostly uses them on overnight trains between northern and southern Italy.

 

E402.123 waiting to leave with the mid-afternoon IC for Ancona. This is a dual voltage 3000dc and 25kv E402B. Until late last year, many of these locos were allocated to Frecciabianca services hauling fixed rakes of upgraded UICZ/Z1 coaches, but with recent deliveries of new Frecciarossa 1000 sets, E.414 locos have replaced them and all now work Intercity day and night trains.

 

E402.033 waiting to leave on an Intercity to Trieste. These locos are in the process of being converted to single cab E.401 (http://blog.tuttotreno.it/18152-e-401-013-sui-binari/) to work in fixed formation with newly converted driving trailers (http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/4309) on Intercity Sun services.

 

More historic traction now, with E444.005 having arrived on IC505 from Ventimiglia. This is all that is left of the famous Expresso 349 which used to start back in Hendaye and Port Bou on the French/Spanish border. These E444 locos were FS's first high speed locos (200km/h), converted in the 1990s to this E444R form with new cabs. They are in the process of being withdrawn and I personally don't think they'll survive beyond the end of this year.

 

Finally in this batch, two new ETR425 units. These have been delivered in either Jazz or Trenord livery, except for a few that are allocated to airport services, in this case between Roma Termini and Fiumicino airport.

[jjb1970]

Splendid stuff, thanks for posting!! I love the E402A, it is one of the few locomotives for which I prefer the XMPR livery although they did also look good in red and white. The Riveraossi model is very nicely done.

 

I thought the as built E444 was the finest hour of Italian locomotives, there was just something very stylish about it to my eyes. On the E636, they really were splendid machines. The idea of an articulated tri-bo is something different and despite looking slightly homespun there was also something very endearing about the design. Modellers really are spoiled for E636s, ACME do a first class model whilst the Lima Expert and LE Models versions (which look to be a shared set of tooling to me, they are identical, including the packaging except for the box art design) are tremendous. I think it tells you everything that the very good Roco model looks a bit ordinary next to the other options. Whilst the E636 and the externally near identical prototype version of the E646 carried a few liveries, for me they should be either castano and isabella or castano.

[brushman47544]

Splendid stuff, thanks for posting!! I love the E402A, it is one of the few locomotives for which I prefer the XMPR livery although they did also look good in red and white. The Riveraossi model is very nicely done.

 

I thought the as built E444 was the finest hour of Italian locomotives, there was just something very stylish about it to my eyes. On the E636, they really were splendid machines. The idea of an articulated tri-bo is something different and despite looking slightly homespun there was also something very endearing about the design. Modellers really are spoiled for E636s, ACME do a first class model whilst the Lima Expert and LE Models versions (which look to be a shared set of tooling to me, they are identical, including the packaging except for the box art design) are tremendous. I think it tells you everything that the very good Roco model looks a bit ordinary next to the other options. Whilst the E636 and the externally near identical prototype version of the E646 carried a few liveries, for me they should be either castano and isabella or castano.

I'm Caimano fan myself, but I do like the E.402As as well, though the white and red livery is my preference.

 

I agree that the Lima Expert and LE Models E.636 look identical, but according to the review of the LE Models version in Tutto Treno magazine, they are not from the same tooling...

[jjb1970]

I also love the E656 locomotives, again modellers are spoiled by ACME and Rivarossi

 

On Lima and LE, that is interesting. The thing I can't understand about Lima Expert is that Lima is ostensibly the Hornby International low end "railroad" brand to provide cheap and cheerful models to the trainset and toy segment (although personally, they're all toys to me) alongside the premium full fat Rivarossi line. Yet if anything some of the Lima Expert models are better than Rivarossi, the Grand Comfort coaches they did were wonderful and the E636 was outstanding. So they developed a budget range and then decided to make models under that name which are more premium than those from their premium range. I believe that the Lima Expertline originates in Italy (with production in China) unlike Rivarossi which is developed by Hornby in Spain. Either way,they're superbly done so I won't complain.

[brushman47544]

Moving on to 2016 and the line between Foligno and Falconara on the Adriatic Coast. Fast services between Roma and Ancona were for many years until a couple of years ago worked by the remaining ETR 450 Pendalinos, but the frequency has been reduced progressively and there is now one Frecciabianca train pair between Roma and Ravenna and two IC train pairs between Roma and Ancona. The IC train pairs are still nominally diagrammed for E444 locos but it's over a year since I've seen one, the trains being worked by E402A and E402B.

 

 

E402.024 on IC534 from Roma Termini to Ancona passing Valtopina on 25 March 2016. The formation looks like it was built with double tracking in mind - there are bridges nearby that have space for a second track - but the current priority for doubling is the section between Foligno and Spoleto to the south.

[jjb1970]

Ravenna is one of the great jewels of European (global) art and culture. The capital of the Western half of the Roman Empire and later of the Gothic kingdom of Italy it is a city with some wonderful historic buildings. At first sight some of the buildings look a bit uninspiring, being brick built (a bit like many ancient Chinese structures) but the interiors can be glorious. Given its historical significance it is surprising that it is not so well known.

[Jim Martin]

what looks like has been chosen for the new intercity sun livery for Intercity services http://www.ferrovie.it/portale/articoli/4450.

Very similar to the Renfe scheme: http://www.trenscat.com/renfe/locos252_ct.html

 

Jim

[brushman47544]

Very similar to the Renfe scheme: http://www.trenscat.com/renfe/locos252_ct.html

Jim

Indeed. But most of the comments on the Italian forums are that it looks too much like DB's white and red scheme and I have to agree.

[jjb1970]

I think as with many countries, Italian liveries are sensitive to the age and design of the train. I thought the blue/grey livery of the original E444s was a wonderful livery and the body/livery combination was a genuinely classic combination. I cannot imagine the E444 in castano and isabella. Yet I think the E636, E424 and other older designs looked splendid in castano and isabella and when some of them got newer liveries (such as E636.080 in the blue grey, or when some of the older designs went into XMPR) to me it just didn't suit them. The E428 with streamlined body is a thing of wonder in castano but the attempt to jazz it up with the creamy colour and orange stripe was awful. I think the E402B liveries have been getting worse since the original livery which I really liked. Slate grey sounds like a dull and boring livery yet I find few trains as attractive to my eyes as a combination like a blue/grey E444 on slate grey Type X coaches. That said, I did think the E444R looked much nicer in XMPR than in the as built (or Eurostar) livery and I do like the Eurofima and Gran Comfort type coaches in XMPR.

[Alcanman]

I have a liking for the small D343/345/443/445 FS diesels and they looked good in this livery used for push-pull passenger trains. Nowadays, the remaining members are painted in XMPR which also suits them well.

 

D445 1114  Lago di Garda

 

 

 

 

 

[jjb1970]

Splendid! I have a soft spot for the D342 diesels in isabella & castano.

[brushman47544]

Some more photos to come soon, but in the meantime anyone who likes photographing Italian trains (including abroad - or at least in France) may be interested in the list of planned pilgrim trains to Lourdes in 2017, here http://www.ferrovie.info/index.php/it/17-approfondimenti/1390-ferrovie-ricominciano-i-treni-bianchi-per-Lourdes

 

It's quite possible that some will be worked to/from Ventimiglia by the now few E.656 Caimano locos.

[brushman47544]

Before I post some photos taken at Easter, here's one from December showing E.633.201 at Foligno on a train of wagons used for carrying scrap metal. Since the loco is showing tail lights, I assume this is a loaded train heading for Terni. These trains are normally top and tailed, often with a pair of E652s leading to Terni and E.655 on the rear. More recently though I've seen an E.405 on each end.

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by brushman47544

[brushman47544]

Trenitalia has recently agreed a new service contract for its Intercity services, which covers both day and night trains. This has been accompanied by a new livery (or rather liveries) - Intercity Sun for day trains and Intercity Notte for overnight trains. Whilst the Notte livery is dark blue with pinky/red doors and looks quite good, there has been much criticism of the Sun/day livery which is white with a red band, plus an upper grey band on locos and driving trailers and looks almost identical to DB red/white. Oddly, all the locos and driving trailers will be in the white Sun/day livery, despite also being used on Notte trains. The E402A locos are currently being converted to single cab E401 to work in fixed formation on these trains.

 

Here is E402.143, the first loco painted in the Intercity Sun livery, passing Valtopina on IC 541 Ancona to Roma Termini.

 

 

At the same time, cascading of various Freccia ETR sets following introduction of the new Frecciarossa 1000 units has seen many UIC Z1 and Gran Confort (GC) Frecciabianca coaches in turn being cascaded to Intercity services. These coaches have started to appear in mixed formations and to blend in with the existing stock in XPMR livery have had the red stripe repainted green, but have kept their white roofs and grey solebars. Here is E402.163 leaving Foligno on IC540 Roma Termini to Ancona with a repainted UIC Z1 behind the loco and a GC a couple of coaches further back.

 

 

and here is a close up of the GC coach

 

Edited April 24, 2017 by brushman47544

[9FEd]

Fellow Italophile here, also with family in Italy (Emilia-Romagna), a regular family holiday used to involve taking the Ligurian coast line to Sanremo. 

 

Thanks for sharing your photos and for the commentary @brushman47544 (appreciate this has been dormant for a little while - enjoyed discovering it nonetheless). 

 

I actually work in N gauge and so am eagerly awaiting the forthcoming new tool Hornby-Arnold E656, which will finally give me some decent Italian motive power in my scale. 

 

Question that I would be grateful if anyone could advise on - was it ever common for the grey livery Eurofirma coaches to be mixed in with XMPR Eurofirma coaches at all? 

[brushman47544]

3 hours ago, 9FEd said:

Question that I would be grateful if anyone could advise on - was it ever common for the grey livery Eurofirma coaches to be mixed in with XMPR Eurofirma coaches at all? 

Can’t imagine why not. It took a long time to repaint coaches. I’ve seen photos of Bandiera, Grey, Eurofima orange and rosso fegato in the same train.

[duff man]

Hi.

 Just stumbled across this thread, Nice to see some Italian stuff on here. I am working on an Austrian layout which will require some Italian stock which I am now actively researching, threads like this are most useful as I know nothing of FS workings etc.

Be it a while ago but thanks for posting and if you have anything more lurking it would be great to see an update at some point.

Craig.

[letterspider]

Sorry to hijack this thread but doea anyone know where I can buy a Hornby  / Rivarossi or Acme Class E656 and E444 in the Caimino livery?

Thanks