RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 Chard also produced large quantities of powdered milk (which appeared to be a way of using surplus milk at certain times - but there was a warehouse there containing a large number of paper sacks of the stuff in the mid '70s) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Pont Llanio on the Aberystwyth - Carmarthen line had a fair-sized creamery - and a very small station! - and the milk tanks were certainly shunted onto the passenger trains - usually though not always between the tender and the first coach. The manoeuvre by which the tank was put at the rear of the train (either to preserve the train heating in a Welsh winter or to simplify shunting in Aberystwyth, or possibly for both reasons together) would surely not have passed inspection by the powers that be. (What, detrain the passengers just because you're shunting the whole shebang into a siding? In winter? What a crazy idea!) Are you sure the tanks from Pont Llanio went to Aberystwyth? I though that the milk from Pont Llanio and Felin Fach was tripped south to join the main West wales flow at Carmarthen. It would be odd for the milk from Felin Fach to go south while the milk from Pont Llanio just a few miles away went north. I am pretty certain the empties into Pont Llanio came north from Camarthen. There is a photo of a mixed train here with tanks for both Pont Llanio and Felin Fach. http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/headlines---latest-reports-and-photographs/1960s-mixed-train-mike-roach Edited March 1, 2017 by Karhedron 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Karhedron Posted March 1, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) On 01/03/2017 at 09:26, John_Hughes said: But then, a lot of strange things used to happen at Pont Llanio. Speaking of which, I have just found some fantastic shots of Pont Llanio. As well as the view from the road bridge, it shows the other siding at the back as well as views of the front entrance and associated buildings. This is probably the most comprehensive set of views I have ever seen of a rail served creamery. If the OP is looking for inspiration, he could do a lot worse than this collection. https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/491968 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/491971 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/550487 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/550493 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/32074 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/550501 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/550503 https://www.peoplescollection.wales/items/550497 Edited February 4, 2020 by Karhedron Pictures had moved so fixing broken links. 23 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Wonderful pictures there, with a good dose of the human touch with the workers posing As you say, there is enough detailed information there to constitute an "Instruction Book for Scratch-building a Dairy" 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 How do you know that? Double heading was quite common for loco movements and would the western not have been double headed if it was broken? They say jokes aren't funny if you have to explain them... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Lovely views of Pont Llanio. It must date from the early 1950s, given the selection of road vehicles visible. I wonder why there are two of the trailer-carrying wagons there (in the view of the two ladies and the forklift), as the creamery used 'normal' tanks for its traffic. The only location in West Wales that I've heard of using road-rail tanks was Llangadog. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Lovely stuff; I wonder when it was taken? The road vehicles are almost all of thirties/forties vintage, whilst ther's an open wagon in one shot still carrying 'GW' lettering, yet there are other shots with a BR standard van visible. I found those photos on https://www.peoplescollection.wales (reposted here under the terms of their Creative Archive Licence for non commercial research or private study purposes only). Unfortunately the photos are undated so we have to search for clues. As you point out, it is clearly post-nationalisation and I would hazard a guess it is actually later than the road vehicles imply. The hairstyles on the ladies by the fork-lift truck look early 60s to me. I have seen other photos on the line taken in a sequence in 1963 and I would not be surprised if the photos were taken at or around the same time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I wonder why there are two of the trailer-carrying wagons there (in the view of the two ladies and the forklift), as the creamery used 'normal' tanks for its traffic. The only location in West Wales that I've heard of using road-rail tanks was Llangadog. That is an interesting question. What is even more puzzling is that the trailer-carrying wagons seem to be on the siding normally used for miscellaneous wagons rather than milk tanks. In the shots I have seen, the milk tankers always seem to be loaded on the other siding on the mainline side of the creamery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 Speaking of which, I have just found some fantastic shots of Pont Llanio. As well as the view from the road bridge, it shows the other siding at the back as well as views of the front entrance and associated buildings. This is probably the most comprehensive set of views I have ever seen of a rail served creamery. If the OP is looking for inspiration, he could do a lot worse than this collection. I've always wanted to know the Welsh for Milk Marketing Board :-) 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Rowsley17D Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 (edited) Not GWR or branch-line but there's a plan of the Express Dairy complex next to Rowsley station at http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/r/rowsley/ Edited March 1, 2017 by Rowsley17D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 The lady on the forklift is the double of an aunt of mine (given that some of my forbears are from Mid-Wales there is a possibility of relations there!) I would date that collection of photos to the very early 50s. taking my aunt as source material 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Lostwithiel in Cornwall Just for comparison, here are some shots of Lothwithiel some 20 years earlier. It is fascinating to see how much the site grew over that time. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 More fascinating images to study. I love the little rail borne trolley with the oil drums on it - blocking the milk tank into the cattle dock.... Is that tank another cripple I wonder? Did they have a high failure rate in traffic? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I love the little rail borne trolley with the oil drums on it - blocking the milk tank into the cattle dock.... Is that tank another cripple I wonder? Did they have a high failure rate in traffic? I read somewhere that the dock is where they used to clean out the tankers. If that is the case then the trolley could actually be carrying the hot water and lance for cleaning out the tanker. This is pure speculation on my part though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LBRJ Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 I would have thought that regular cleaning took place in the loading bay - lots of hot water / steam on hand there for the job. They could have done a less frequent "deep clean" in the dock though! again I am speculating somewhat too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 1, 2017 Are you sure the tanks from Pont Llanio went to Aberystwyth? I though that the milk from Pont Llanio and Felin Fach was tripped south to join the main West wales flow at Carmarthen. It would be odd for the milk from Felin Fach to go south while the milk from Pont Llanio just a few miles away went north. I am pretty certain the empties into Pont Llanio came north from Camarthen. There is a photo of a mixed train here with tanks for both Pont Llanio and Felin Fach. http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/headlines---latest-reports-and-photographs/1960s-mixed-train-mike-roach Looks like plenty of steam is getting back to that coach 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Looks like plenty of steam is getting back to that coach It does, doesn't it! Can someone shed light on this? I'm pretty sure the tanks weren't through-piped for steam heat! My memories of the operation there date from 1962, at which time the tanks certainly headed north to Aber; they were picked up on the last north-bound passenger of the day, which I was regularly travelling on at the time, and I used to stand on the platform and watch the operation. However, I never worked out how the empties got back to the creamery - certainly not on any train I was ever on, so they may have been taken up on the daily goods. From Aber I have no idea where they went; could it have been towards Crewe? London does seem unlikely, though I suppose Brum or Wolves would also be possible. Or maybe just Salop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) From Aber I have no idea where they went; could it have been towards Crewe? London does seem unlikely, though I suppose Brum or Wolves would also be possible. Or maybe just Salop? According to one of the earlier posts, the empties were worked up from Camarthen along with those from Felin Fach on a passenger train. As to where the loaded tanks went from Aber, that is a good question. I haven't heard of a flow from Mid-Wales to London (although absence of evidence is not evidence of absence). Possibly they were taken somewhere to be processed into butter, cheese or powdered milk. Or possibly they made their way to London via Birmingham. I am still very puzzled that tankers from Felin Fach and Pont Llanio would go in different directions when they are just a few miles apart (unless my information is wrong and the Felin Fach milk went north as well). I know the milk from both went south after the washout closed the line north of Strata Florida but that was not until 1964. Edited March 2, 2017 by Karhedron 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 This may not be a lot of help but I have a Swansea district WTT for winter 1958-59. It shows a train of empty tanks departing Carmarthen at 2.50 pm, calling at Pencader for water from 3.28 to 3.33 and at Lampeter from 4.3 to 4.15 and arriving Pont Llanio 4.30. A "milk etc" train left Pont Llanio at 5.20 pm, called at Lampeter from 5.35 to 7.18, called at Pencader and Conwil and arrived at Carmarthen at 8.32 pm. What we now need is a 1962 WTT. Anybody???? If tanks did go north to Aberystwyth the transit to their destination must have been protracted and I am wondering whether they were bound for somewhere other than London. There were all sorts of minor flows which are not particularly well known - Builth Wells to Aberdare comes to mind - and with living memory disappearing by the day some of it will inevitably be lost. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted March 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 2, 2017 How do you know that? Double heading was quite common for loco movements and would the western not have been double headed if it was broken? Western, like Warships, had 2 engines and 2 hydraulic drive trains, one for each bogie. A failure at one end would leave the other working and the loco still able to pull the train, though it might lose time; the WR touted this as one the advantages of the hydraulic system, but it was less a deliberate design feature than a reflection of the fact that no hydraulic pump small enough to fit in the body of a loco built to the British loading gauge was available when the locos were built that could handle a power output from the diesel engine of more than about 1,500hp. A Western running on one engine of 1,350hp and weighing 108 tons is comparable to a Class 31, also 108 tons before they were re-engined. It was a situation improving as time went on, reflected by the increasing power of WR hydraulics culminating in the Hymek's single engine transmission which could handled 1,700hp. I believe a twin engined. 3,400hp 'Super Hymek' was talked about, but the firm went under before any plans were drawn up. Might have been quite a beast! Nothing stopping there being two engines in a diesel electric, as was done with the Deltics, the 'Baby Deltic' being a single engined version. One loses some of the operational resilience if one does not also have separate electrical, coolant, air supply, and fuel systems for each engine, as a failure of any one of those systems will cripple the loco. Class 50s could work in multiple, and were designed to do so to accelerate the WCML timetable until such time as electrification north of Weaver was completed, at which time they were available to the WR to replace the Westerns and provide head end electric power to the new airconditioned Mk2e/f stock Westerns could not be double headed unless both were manned, as they were not equipped with multiple unit control wiring/piping. Strictly speaking, a 'broken' or failed Western is not double heading with an assistant loco, it is dead in the train and part of the load, but we know what you mean, LBRJ! Nothing in the photo shows that the Western was working on one engine or that one of the 50s had failed. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) This may not be a lot of help but I have a Swansea district WTT for winter 1958-59. It shows a train of empty tanks departing Carmarthen at 2.50 pm, calling at Pencader for water from 3.28 to 3.33 and at Lampeter from 4.3 to 4.15 and arriving Pont Llanio 4.30. A "milk etc" train left Pont Llanio at 5.20 pm, called at Lampeter from 5.35 to 7.18, called at Pencader and Conwil and arrived at Carmarthen at 8.32 pm. What we now need is a 1962 WTT. Anybody???? I have the 1961 CWP and the 5:20 Pont Llanio to Camarthen is there too (4:50 on Sundays). It is noted as connecting with the 9:15pm Camarthen to Kensington milk train. 1962 could have been different but prior to that, it looks like the milk from both Felin Fach and Pont Llanio was worked south. An interesting observation is that the Whitland to Wood Land milk trains each included a tank of cream from Whitland bound for Chard which must have been quite a round trip. I know that Chard was noted as processing cream but I am surprised that there was nowhere nearer for this batch. Edited March 2, 2017 by Karhedron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 (edited) Slightly O/t but the picture of Lostwithiel in post #14 is just so full pf mid 70s atmosphere and details. Double headed 50s on the down, A Western on the Up Clay-liner (that must date it pretty narrowly), the tanks with the covers open waiting to be steam cleaned, even what I assume is a cripple in the down siding. wonderful image indeed... oh and the diary is a fetching shade of pink! Date is roughly late Spring / early Summer of '76, D1013 is in it's recently applied 'Laira tarted up pet engine' guise before D1023 took on that title much later in the year. Regarding Moreton-in-Marsh, the dairy building is still intact today. Edited March 2, 2017 by Rugd1022 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Regarding Moreton-in-Marsh, the dairy building is still intact today. It is indeed. I have an all-round set of photographs of the site and buildings. Just in case. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Actually a great many old Dairies are still standing. Some are derelict like Pont Llanio, some are intact and still in use, just no longer rail-served. Felin Fach is still there although the original building is somewhat smothered in various generations' of extensions. Some have found new uses as industrial buildings like Moreton-in-the-Marsh and Wood Land.But some (like Chard) are gone forever. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium tanatvalley Posted March 2, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 2, 2017 This may not be a lot of help but I have a Swansea district WTT for winter 1958-59. It shows a train of empty tanks departing Carmarthen at 2.50 pm, calling at Pencader for water from 3.28 to 3.33 and at Lampeter from 4.3 to 4.15 and arriving Pont Llanio 4.30. A "milk etc" train left Pont Llanio at 5.20 pm, called at Lampeter from 5.35 to 7.18, called at Pencader and Conwil and arrived at Carmarthen at 8.32 pm. What we now need is a 1962 WTT. Anybody???? Chris The winter 1961-62 WTT shows identical timings. The train is described as 3F32 and ran as required (Q). It also ran on Sundays. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now