Rich's de-stress project

[Bucoops]

I'm thinking I need a rivet press of some kind. From what I've found they range from £12 (LRM/Eileen's) up to about £100 for GW's finest, and GW also does a "lesser" one. Bearing in mind I'm not building vast quantities of kits, would the LRM/Eileen's one be good enough for 4mm rivet embossing? If not, what's the lowest priced one that is good?

 

Thanks

[jdb82]

I'm thinking I need a rivet press of some kind. From what I've found they range from £12 (LRM/Eileen's) up to about £100 for GW's finest, and GW also does a "lesser" one. Bearing in mind I'm not building vast quantities of kits, would the LRM/Eileen's one be good enough for 4mm rivet embossing? If not, what's the lowest priced one that is good?

 

Thanks

I have the gravity riveter from Eileen’s - it’s basically a a sharp-pointed steel rod with a weight that you drop from a pre-defined height. It works pretty well as long as the rivets are half etched. Anything scratch built and you’ll need to pre drill the rivets about half the thickness of the brass for it to be effective.

[Bucoops]

Thanks You're building in 7mm - do you think it's fine enough a point for 4mm?

[Jol Wilkinson]

I have the gravity riveter from Eileen’s - it’s basically a a sharp-pointed steel rod with a weight that you drop from a pre-defined height. It works pretty well as long as the rivets are half etched. Anything scratch built and you’ll need to pre drill the rivets about half the thickness of the brass for it to be effective.

 

The LRM tool, which is also sold by Eileens Emporium,  is for embossing half etched rivets. It was designed by the late John Hayes, one of the finest 4mm kit builders whose work appeared in MRJ. It can be set to emboss consistent rivets heads. It only works properly on half etched rivers as the full thickness of the surrounding metal prevents the rivet head from "spreading".

 

To create rivets on "full" thickness metal you need a punch and anvil. The anvil has a small depression into which the rivet head is formed, while supporting the surrounding area and preventing distortion. That is what the GW and Metalsmiths riveting tools (and others like them) provide. I have the LRM rivet embosser and GW rivet press and both do what they say on the tin, although the LRM tool is easier to line up on half embossed rivets (which are sometimes oversize) to get a consistent line. It is simply that I find it is easier to see and align the punch head. The GW rivet press does however have screw driven attachments for producing consistent rivet spacing on plain sheet.

 

The other course is to apply stick on rivet heads, such as the Archer "transfers".

 

Edited to add that the LRM tool has a silver steel punch, which can easily be ground/honed to suit different size rivets.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Jol Wilkinson

[Bucoops]

Hi Jol,

 

thank you - that's very useful info (I'm actually quite surprised that little tidbit of info about the provenance for the gravity isn't included in the description ).

 

Now, what to sell to buy one (one in one out lol).

[Bucoops]

Not going to lie, was expecting this part to be a complete nightmare. Instead, fortunately it was only a partial nightmare 

 

 

 

 

As usual needs quite a but of cleaning up but I'm pretty happy with the "roundness" of it. I did have to re-bend one end where the change to flat ended up about 1mm too soon. By my calculations, the diameter should be 22.5mm (2'9 3/4" radius according to the drawing (I'll be honest - this is the first time I've actively used the drawing to work to a dimension - everything else has been on a "it looks right" basis). I measure it at 22.1mm so I'm a smidge under - but then it's not painted yet.

 

Unfortunately the boiler barrel smokebox inner part is oversize - even after I've started thinning it down it's still 22.3mm. This is where I'd like a lathe!

 

The smokebox wrapper has half etched rivet detail but I chose not to do this as the example I'm building has flush head rivets (the preserved 69621 has dome headed ones). Strangely even though 2600 has flush rivets (as built), 2612 (in a BR photo at least) has dome head. Oh my, I'm turning into a rivet observer I presume the next step is to count the damned things! I guess as boiler changes occurred the exact arrangement would change. I'm building mine at 10 years old so hopefully but not necessarily it still had its original boiler. I've not had any luck finding later photos of it so just got to hope really. I'm not going to gettoo upset if I find it's wrong. What's the phrase? Layout loco

 

Oh - and I've reached a milestone. I've worn my first scratchbrush out.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Bucoops

[Bucoops]

This is offending oversize boiler. It's also slightly long, and just for good measure, the boiler bands are painted on only - there's no perceptible raised portion. So I need to thin those down a lot as well (I'll leave a hint of them to help with painting).

 

Ugh!

 

 

I'm slowly reducing the diamter of the smokebox - still need to take about 0.6mm off

 

I did briefly consider trying to make a new boiler from brass sheet but 1) Not got the confidence on getting something that long parallel, and 2) I like the weight of it! Although some will be lost for the motor access.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Bucoops

[Bucoops]

Ugh, hope this isn't a sign of issues with more of the castings - 

 

 

The smokebox front is flat, the door is doing a banana impression it would seem. The castining feed is at the back in the middle so probably need to remove that and then attempt to flatten it. And then probably hit plan B. Whatever that is!

[Bucoops]

It took me a couple of days to go up into the loft and raid the section of the Kit Mountain which is red boxes...  So I brought down the kits for the Gibson Y14 and T26.  I knew that in there was what I wanted...

 

AG GER brake standard.JPG

 

Apologies if this is sideways - I've had two attempts to twist it around in an editor :-(

 

This is the tender brake standard from the kits.  You'll see that it gives a pretty good impression, including of the cut-outs in the base.  As a kit component, it isn't labelled with a part number.  however, if you download the Alan Gibson catalogue, you'll find it listed in the LNER locomotive parts section as "4M628 GER Tender Brake Standard".

 

As to why the right one isn't in the kit?  I suspect the kit manufacturer didn't have the correct existing component in their range, didn't want to buy one in or make a master for one to cast, and thought that it's an insignificant internal component which no one will bother about.  Or just didn't do their research...

 

Cheers

Flymo

 

I just had a rummage in my J15/Y14 kit that I haven't started yet - my one is cast brass rather than whitemetal. Might use that one instead of waiting forever for the Markits one. Not sure how old my kit it, over 20 years though. Wonder why they changed to whitemetal?

 

Really need to do something as it's holding up the body.

Edited February 24, 2018 by Bucoops

[Bucoops]

Dang this new scratchbrush refill is vicious compared to the old one. No wonder it took so long to do cleaning up. Need to be a bit careful with this one now not to rip the brass to shreds

[Bucoops]

Progress

 

The part 3 plans don't show which orientation the slots in the brake standard are - 69621 has them on the side. I did try to twist the handle so it would be perpendicular with the back wall of the cab so the slots could be oriented that way but I could feel it starting to fail so took the decision to have them front/back. The handle will be a LOT more visible than the handle. The handle itself does need straightening a bit.

 

 

[Flymo748]

I just had a rummage in my J15/Y14 kit that I haven't started yet - my one is cast brass rather than whitemetal. Might use that one instead of waiting forever for the Markits one. Not sure how old my kit it, over 20 years though. Wonder why they changed to whitemetal?

 

 

Rich,

 

I suspect as straightforward as cost.

 

A single lost wax brass casting is a multiple of the same in white metal - possibly several times over.

 

When I was first looking at reviving the 5522 Models range of coaches, I spoke with the previous supplier (no names) of lost wax castings.  I was quoted £2.40 *each* for a lost wax LMS axlebox and spring.  As I would need eight of those for each kit for a pair of LMS bogies, I'd have been looking at a resale price of around £25 at least for each kit. No one is going to pay that sort of prices.

 

So I went out, bought my own casting machine, and can now do them nicely in whitemetal :-)

 

That would be my hypothesis...

Cheers

Flymo

[Bucoops]

Maybe - that's a hideously expensive price! I suppose if you wanted hundreds of them it would be a more economic unit cost.

[Bucoops]

Markits seem to have taken some money so perhaps that means I'm finally going to get something!

[hayfield]

Rich

 

Quite often its quicker to buy the items from a retailer rather than direct, certainly for the more common items.  For instance Alley Pally is on the 24/25 and parking is both free and easy, the show is well worth going to in its own right with the best specialist trade presence near Essex. If you save up a few orders which you can buy on the day the saving in P&P more than covers the entrance and travel costs.

 

As for Markits items the likes of Roxey Mouldings, Wizard Models, Hobby Holidays and London Road Models hold stocks of the common items. To be quite honest for the modelmaker its in my opinion a not to be missed show

[Jol Wilkinson]

John,

 

your post implies that those traders will be at the Ally Pally show. London Road Models won't be there and Wizard aren't on the exhibitors list. Several other specialist traders including Brassmasters, SEF. PPP and Alan Gibson are also absent. 

 

Jol

[hayfield]

Jol

 

Thought John went to this one, however out of the shows I go to in the South East its probably one of the best for trade support catering for all areas of the hobby, surprised wizard are not there, still the other specialist shows are a bit further away fron the north eastern side of London.

[Bucoops]

Rich

 

Quite often its quicker to buy the items from a retailer rather than direct, certainly for the more common items.  For instance Alley Pally is on the 24/25 and parking is both free and easy, the show is well worth going to in its own right with the best specialist trade presence near Essex. If you save up a few orders which you can buy on the day the saving in P&P more than covers the entrance and travel costs.

 

As for Markits items the likes of Roxey Mouldings, Wizard Models, Hobby Holidays and London Road Models hold stocks of the common items. To be quite honest for the modelmaker its in my opinion a not to be missed show

 

The problem is the bulk of what I need is wheels and everyone I spoke to (including Markits themselves) said there is an issue with whoever supplies the centre castings - and the other bits aren't really stock items elsewhere (e.g. GE brake standard).

 

Not planning on going to any shows for the time being - I'm only managing a short amount of time per week so not exactly forging ahead. And I would find it tough not to buy shiny things!

[Bucoops]

Ugh - been trying to do some of the cab side detail - starting with the beading around the cab side cutouts. There are little etched frames for the window but it says to use scrap etch for the opening above the doors. I have some half-round beading which hopefully will look better. So far I have very burnt fingers and wonky beading. Oh well - no pain no gin!

[Bucoops]

Thanks for the support guys

 

After burning fingers, brain cells and masking tape, I'm getting there:

 

 

 

 

What you probably can't quite make out is after some tidying there are some slight air gaps between the beading and the cab aperture. I did try re-soldering but got nowhere. I think I may try some low-melt in there instead. They are very small though so it's possible that when painting it fills it for me.

 

The beading is slightly over length - I'll trim when the handrails are in and the roof is ready to go on.

[Bucoops]

I have a delivery!

 

Not bad for £3.12

 

 

The handle is soldered to the shaft. And it looks like it would be the correct way for the N7 but I won't swap it - you'll barely be able to see it anyway.

 

Now I can put this in my J15 kit to make it complete again.

 

And I finally have all insulated wheels for the A1.

[rowanj]

Both your builds seem to be coming along nicely, Rich. Well done getting in touch with Markits- you had better luck than me.

 

I too am building an ancient A3 - in my case from Wills. My chassis is now from Comet, having failed to get sufficiently modern-looking valve gear onto the Wills whiemetal chassis I got with the kit. Both recommended Romford 26mm wheels but I'm going with scale Gibsons. I  hadn't built a Comet chassis in ages, and confess to having had the odd "wobbly" one, despite using their jig. However I now use Poppywoods kit, and this one has gone together like a dream.

 

Enjoying your progress

 

John

[Bucoops]

hi John,

 

Thank you for the kind words - it means a lot to get it from such established modellers. I can be pretty dogged when it come to trying to get something. I keep forgetting to try but will keep going until I get somewhere (ref. Coopercraft refund!).

 

I'm quite keen to crack on with a whitemetal kit - I have the class 15 of course but don't really want three on the go (even though I have started it). Next time I get stuck on the N7 I'll be getting some more of the A1 done. No excuses now that I have wheels and brakes!

 

It's taking me forever to fettle the brass castings for the N7. I like that they are brass, but that does up the amount of effort needed to get them into shape.

 

 

The rear spectacle bars are rather over scale, but I decided to use them anyway as they are a lot more rugged than the etched alternative.

Edited March 7, 2018 by Bucoops

[Bucoops]

Getting the roof right is proving interesting. It's nearly flat on top with a tighter radius to the sides. And the half-etched rain gutter guides have meant that the area inside that arc are flat compared to the rest of the roof.

 

And just for good measure, I've only just noticed that the cab front and back walls are about 0.5mm lower than the sides so there's a gap.

 

 

 

Lowering the sides without taking off the fold over roof mounting tabs isn't really feasible so  think I need to raise the front and back walls a smidge. I have an idea for that.

 

Really need to reduce the bunker back wall height too.

[gobbler]

Ugh - been trying to do some of the cab side detail - starting with the beading around the cab side cutouts. There are little etched frames for the window but it says to use scrap etch for the opening above the doors. I have some half-round beading which hopefully will look better. So far I have very burnt fingers and wonky beading. Oh well - no pain no gin!

A gin man eh?

 

I do love an N7, really ought to try and finish off my one.

 

Scott

Edited March 8, 2018 by gobbler