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Dapol announce 14xx/48xx/58xx in O.


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GWRJ, issue 22, pages 330-1 is a GA - it shows the shoe to be directly below & marginally (like an inch or two) abaft the leading axle.  There are 10 images of locos in the accompanying article by John Copsey, and you can’t see the shoe in any of them, and a further 15 in the subsequent article, you might just convince yourself that you’re seeing the shoe in one of those.

 

On which basis, I’m not rushing to fit one to my much modified Springside model!

 

atb

Simon

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Oh dear.  I missed it on the GA drawing.  I have numbers 22 and 23 and that was my first port of call.   This morning I looked for the instructionds to my Springside kit which I built in 1986.  Couldn’t find them so thought I would look at my model.   Photo attached.

 

The last 2 photos in Brian Daniels collection show a flat plate in front of the front axle which I presume I where the ATC shoe might have been.

 

1450 (130)


My model:

63CDAF22-B32F-4D6F-8778-165F2DAFC254.jpeg.44ca36f3aec599e7469ce2bcf8c78cd6.jpeg

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On 19/04/2020 at 11:05, Marshall5 said:

Russell states that all the 48xx were ATC fitted from new and that some 58xx were later fitted with ATC also.  Another source states that "half" the 58xx were so fitted.

 

It is my understanding (and I can't remember where I read it now) that all 'passenger'*  locos coming out of the works, whether new or overhauled, after c 1932 were fitted with ATC. Maybe the 58xx were on the cusp of the policy change, or maybe their status as passenger engines wasn't established by then. Which makes the reason for the existence of the 58xx rather hazy - why not build another 20 from 4875-94?

 

 

* the ATC fitting policy also applied to 'goods' locos, but I think took longer to implement fully

 

Edited by Miss Prism
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6 hours ago, Maybachmd655 said:

The last 2 photos in Brian Daniels collection show a flat plate in front of the front axle which I presume I where the ATC shoe might have been. 

I cant reproduce them for copywrite reasons but in the two photos I referenced, the shoe is definitely somewhere in the region of the front axle - cant see whether nearer bows or stern!

 

4 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Which makes the reason for the existence of the 58xx rather hazy - why not build another 20 from 4875-94?

 

For that matter, why later design auto gear for a few 4575s instead of fitting to the 58xxs?

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5 minutes ago, Hal Nail said:

For that matter, why later design auto gear for a few 4575s instead of fitting to the 58xxs?

 

Some Welsh Valleys needed auto locos with a bit more power and traction.

 

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As Miss P commented above during 1953 fifteen 4575's (4578/80/1/9 5511/24/7/9/34/45/55/60/8/72/4) had auto gear fitted for push-pull services in the Cardiff Valleys and Bridgend areas.  ISTR The Johnster described these workings a while back.  One of the above locos 5572 went to Woodham's scrapyard at Barry but was later purchased and restored by the GWS at Didcot.  In the photo below the double battery boxes (without doors) for the electrical equipment can be seen behind the cab footsteps.

Ray.

02-69-17 5572 Barry Aug 30 1969.jpg

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Hmmm. I see 5572 has two wires to the rear jumper cover which thinking about it makes sense given the front has 2 and they are both doing the same job (one for auto, one for ATC?). But in the photo I had of 1466, there was only one, running round the bottom of the bunker immediately under the running plate. More research...

 

Found it - a second wire appears from somewhere inside the driver's side buffer (probably from the nearer battery box) and runs horizontally across the buffer beam into the bottom of the jump leads cover.

 

I would like to stress this anal attention to detail is lockdown related!

 

20200416_161202.jpg.02a4f561d9b50c2ab7ce4657bb9fc4e3.jpg.791b56784e961b46cbf87b0b354557e6.jpg

Edited by Hal Nail
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While we're talking battery boxes, does anyone happen to have a drawing or key dimensions of them? I need to make a set for a 14xx in 1 1/16" to the foot scale; probably not something that's available off the shelf!

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1 hour ago, brianthesnail96 said:

While we're talking battery boxes, does anyone happen to have a drawing or key dimensions of them? I need to make a set for a 14xx in 1 1/16" to the foot scale; probably not something that's available off the shelf!

I know you should never model a model but both my Dapol and Masterpiece are 14mm across the pair and 10mm high, identical detail as the photo above. Better than nothing if no one has prototype info.

Edited by Hal Nail
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Sad to report, my 48xx has arrived in several parts. It seems the new packaging is still not up to the job of a trip to Oz.

 

For starters, can somebody please tell me how the front axle keeper plate (below) is meant to be secured? It was flapping loose and the one loose screw in the box does not appear to belong in any of the four holes. The hole at left is for the packaging fixing screw and the screw under the hole at right is present but does not engage the keeper plate.

keeper.jpg

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2 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

Sad to report, my 48xx has arrived in several parts. It seems the new packaging is still not up to the job of a trip to Oz.

 

For starters, can somebody please tell me how the front axle keeper plate (below) is meant to be secured?

Sorry to hear this. I originally thought the front 2 went up into the smoke box but that's the pair in front, these are only short. Shout if anything else needs clarifying.

20200422_085311.jpg.88782c75abefbd68e9ce1b802e7534f4.jpg

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Thanks. I have found a second loose screw in the box identical to the first, both of ~ 5.75mm L  x 1.5mm shaft dia. However they appear too small for the threads under the upper and lower holes, which would explain why they became detached. So I'm wondering if the wrong screws were used by the factory.  

 

 

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28 minutes ago, dpgibbons said:

both of ~ 5.75mm L  x 1.5mm 

 

That's what mine are (no accurate way of measuring).

 

Suspect somehow they have been ripped out of the threads?

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On further investigation the screw on the right secures the keeper plate via a lip on a moulded projection underneath. This has sheared off. Inspection with a digital microscope of the front securing holes suggests that the threads have stripped, which would explain why the screws won't engage.

 

The likely reason is that the screw securing the front of the loco to the packaging mount does not pass through into the metal chassis but attaches to the plastic keeper plate alone, which has torn out its flimsy securing screws under the stress of transit.

 

This seems a very poorly executed packaging design.

Edited by dpgibbons
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9 hours ago, dpgibbons said:

On further investigation the screw on the right secures the keeper plate via a lip on a moulded projection underneath. This has sheared off. Inspection with a digital microscope of the front securing holes suggests that the threads have stripped, which would explain why the screws won't engage.

 

The likely reason is that the screw securing the front of the loco to the packaging mount does not pass through into the metal chassis but attaches to the plastic keeper plate alone, which has torn out its flimsy securing screws under the stress of transit.

 

This seems a very poorly executed packaging design.

I doubt that Dapol will see your message following your investigation.  So please send them an email on this subject.

 

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On 22/04/2020 at 17:44, dpgibbons said:

Sad to report, my 48xx has arrived in several parts. It seems the new packaging is still not up to the job of a trip to Oz.

 

For starters, can somebody please tell me how the front axle keeper plate (below) is meant to be secured? It was flapping loose and the one loose screw in the box does not appear to belong in any of the four holes. The hole at left is for the packaging fixing screw and the screw under the hole at right is present but does not engage the keeper plate.

keeper.jpg

I had the exact same problem with mine, also Hattons did a poor job on the packing of mine. 

 

I e-mailed them stating I will no longer be using them for my purchases.

 

Please Note:

 

I'm posting what I sent them as I can't be bothered retyping.

It was close to midnight Australian time when I sent this and I was highly emotional at the time. 

 

 

Hello,
 

Having finally received my parcel all I can say is whomever packed my parcel did a bloody piss poor job of it.
 

When I picked up the parcel I heard and and felt the contents within easily slide from end to end. 

 

(100mm each end of the Dapol box of was void of packing..Not stated in E-Mail)
 

Opening the box confirmed the first of my fears. The sides were well protected but not the ends resulting in the contents sliding and banging the ends of the box.
 

Opening the actual Dapol box, I noticed the roof was detached which is luckily by design. Having a quick look around the loco within it's cradle there was no paintwork damage.
 

However I noticed a long detail part loose. Following the manual of how to the remove the from the cradle the first step was easy.
 

Removing the lower cradle screws beneath the loco cab was also easy however when I started to loosen the middle front screw the whole front keeper fell apart.
 

Of course the other long detail part and the front driving axle fell out of the chassis which was only stopped by the coupling rods.
 

Thankfully being a skilled modeller came to the rescue as I managed to re-insert the detail parts which were part of the motion gear.
 

However 2 out of 3 screws which kept the front keeper in place no longer tightened and the third screws washer had spilt. Thankfully I had washers on hand and have lightly tacked the other 2 in place.
 

After roughly 40 minutes of repair work thankfully the loco ran smoothly on first go.
 

I have reported my experience to fellow members of my club whom were awaiting my review of the product and have cautioned them.
 

Such poor packaging for what was clearly an overseas order has made me lose all faith of your ability to safely send my orders.
 

I will now be conducting my business with Rails of Sheffield.

 

 

Anyway she's been fitted with sound and I'm awaiting crew members before a light weathering job.

 

However I feel the pain & disappointment due to Dapol's new fixing system. They should return to the old Ice-Cube.

 

The fleet is now complete...

 

 

20200407_080614.jpg

20200407_080740.jpg

Edited by Bowie
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I sent mine back as it was broken on arrival as well. I really don't like the packing that Dapol used on the model. Hattons packing was ok and they sorted the return no issue at all

 

PS is your cab handrail ski whiff

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Mine arrived from Sheffield this morning - just a 100 mile journey - beautifully packaged, however still with two screws adrift from the front axle keep-plate.

 

These actually screw into the cast alloy chassis block.  


You would imagine that these would provide a robust fixing, adequate that the packaging screw (which just fixes to the plastic keeper plate) would hold the model securely, however the screws barely engage one turn of thread into the alloy, and appear to strip easily.  There is plenty of space left in the hole to the chassis to accommodate a longer screw (at least 1.5mm more).

 

I was lucky that I had a couple of longer screws in my ‘bit-box’ which worked fine, and following reassembly of one coupling, and replacement of one of the rear windows (simple interference fit) she is ready to test.

 

The DCC pcb is very tightly fitted, and requires a good tug with long nose pliers to remove - take care with this!!

 

I do not think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the packaging, purely an error in the sizing of two or three screws.  Dapol could offer replacements for those who have encountered this issue, and might want to look at their remaining stocks to prevent further faulty returns...

 

I don’t think it is fair to chastise any particular retailer when this appears to be a more widespread issue from more than one shop.

 

087CEDCF-6285-4542-82FE-93E0BDEF81AC.jpeg.46000217ce9bad3dece72696a8e18aa1.jpeg


Keep safe.

 

Neal

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I hadn’t realised that the stripped threads might be bypassed with a longer screw. Any idea what size replacement screws you used please? I’d be very happy if  I can repair rather than return.

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1 hour ago, neal said:

Mine arrived from Sheffield this morning - just a 100 mile journey - beautifully packaged, however still with two screws adrift from the front axle keep-plate.

 

These actually screw into the cast alloy chassis block.  


You would imagine that these would provide a robust fixing, adequate that the packaging screw (which just fixes to the plastic keeper plate) would hold the model securely, however the screws barely engage one turn of thread into the alloy, and appear to strip easily.  There is plenty of space left in the hole to the chassis to accommodate a longer screw (at least 1.5mm more).

 

I was lucky that I had a couple of longer screws in my ‘bit-box’ which worked fine, and following reassembly of one coupling, and replacement of one of the rear windows (simple interference fit) she is ready to test.

 

The DCC pcb is very tightly fitted, and requires a good tug with long nose pliers to remove - take care with this!!

 

I do not think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the packaging, purely an error in the sizing of two or three screws.  Dapol could offer replacements for those who have encountered this issue, and might want to look at their remaining stocks to prevent further faulty returns...

 

I don’t think it is fair to chastise any particular retailer when this appears to be a more widespread issue from more than one shop.

 

087CEDCF-6285-4542-82FE-93E0BDEF81AC.jpeg.46000217ce9bad3dece72696a8e18aa1.jpeg


Keep safe.

 

Neal

Hi Neal,

 

At the time I had overreacted. However I was highly stressed at the time due to the following reasons.

 

1. At the the of my order (2 year Pre-Order), I didn't remember I had selected DPD as the courier. I usually go DHL.

 

When I was notified that my order was awaiting picking, I requested that if it could be changed to DHL and that I was more than happy to pay any fees/extra charges. This was refused and then my order was processed.

 

2. Understanding the global situation, I waited over 2 weeks for updates about my parcel which had been shipped without any information. It was at this time I discovered DPD is one of the worst couriers to use internationally. I chose them at the time of pre-order on the faith that Hattons had vetted them.

 

3. At the time, our State Premier was announcing massive closures/travel restrictions.

 

4. I wasn't sure if I would be still be employed (Retail) as we were then operating on a day to day basis with conflicting information from the state & federal governments.

 

When I finally did my parcel after 2 weeks of no updates from the courier & saw the condition it was in, My safety values lifted.

 

At the time I had seen nothing but glowing reports from other people who had purchased the loco and I felt like I had just been unlucky and gotten the short end after all I had been through and looking like the only person at the time to have an damaged item. Also being down under makes warranty support a tad tricky & costly.

 

I just wanted to explain the situation in more detail as all this happened within a short time period under incredibly stressful conditions.

 

  

 

 

 

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Appreciate that Bowie, 

 

There are very few not under pressure at this time (you see what I did there!?!)

 

At the end of the day, these are just toy trains.  Many have far greater worries.

 

It turns out that after that grief, mine did not run on DCC (although fine on DC).  Fire flicker worked ok with a number of different chips, so I assume there must be a pcb vault.  I am not minded to strip it down, so it is travelling back up the M1.

 

I guess replacement may take a while, and there is more important freight on the roads which should rightly have priority. The wait will give me something else to look forward to!

 

In answer to the screw question, I swapped the original screws with slightly longer self tappers of similar diameter which had enough bite to hold.  I think these were from a Bachmann loco.  I am not an expert in the dark arts of screw sizes and threads, so cannot answer as to which BA these might be. Suffice to say that in the screw holes to the chassis there appears to be at least another 3 turns - sufficient to have a screw around a mil longer than that supplied.

 

Best wishes, 

 

Neal

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44 minutes ago, Bowie said:

 

 

I just wanted to explain the situation in more detail as all this happened within a short time period under incredibly stressful conditions.

 

 

Hi,

I think a bit of venting is understandable.

 

However I do think the retailers are on a hiding to nothing with deliveries - its not actually the retailers that chuck them about and even allowing for a flaw in the design of the protection, its still needs someone to handle it roughly to actually break it.

 

On that basis I tend to go with whichever retailer has given me good service when things go wrong because frankly other than price (which is fairly standard anyway), that's the only bit they control! I had a poor running Heljan class 45.:Tower sent out a replacement immediately and then collected mine later on. 

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I have emailed Dapol about the keeper plate issue. If they can supply a replacement keeper plate and longer securing screws then it's a simple fix.  Going forward the packaging design needs to be improved with more robust screws secured directly into the chassis.

 

Meantime I estimate the securing screws required are M1.6 x 8mm or 10mm, so I'll buy some on eBay and see if they do the trick. 

 

Edited by dpgibbons
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