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Charlie586

Wantage Road 1880 4mm Broad Gauge

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Did some more door hinges (11 of 42 done now, apart from the filing down to size) and soldered a dropper to a piece of rail

 

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Checked the axles box and spring against the underframe (axlebox gued to spring, but just held in place at moment with blue tac)

 

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It doesn't quite line up because the spring hanger plate is very thick. I did think at the start maybe I should file it down a bit, but didn't. I checked clearance against the platform.

 

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bottom piece of wood is the platform, with the foot step dangling on top of the hangers. It just fits, when I do the other side I'll file it down a bit. I might take another mm or 2 off the platform as the top bit isn't on yet so will be easier to do now.

 

3dwise, the carriage side printed the other way worked okay

 

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I thought I'd try sides, ends and compartment together (standard gauge S5 4 compt 3rd with centre luggage this time)

 

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Didn't print at an angle and very little support. It's okay apart from the ends which have buckled/bowed (the other end is the same). Not sure if there's a problem with the cad or if it needs supporting. The darker areas are where it needs curing (it's straight off the printer). I can redo the ends easily, but if I can get them to print like this it will save a lot of time and faffing.

 

I'll hunt down a brake composite with lookouts diagram and try one of those next, as I've got enough thirds for now. I still need to try a boilerless rover too.

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The U22 4w brake composite was an 1886 vintage convertible so SG body on BG frames. There’s a drawing of one on Richard Spratt’s excellent Penhros Junction website.

DrDuncan

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9 minutes ago, drduncan said:

The U22 4w brake composite was an 1886 vintage convertible so SG body on BG frames. There’s a drawing of one on Richard Spratt’s excellent Penhros Junction website.

DrDuncan

 Thanks Duncan

I could do with sticking to LA9N at the moment, bit tight on time to change the eaves and window height in the next few weeks. Changing compartment width / layout is a simpler job. T38 looks good at moment, though it's only standard and not BG frame convertible.  I had a picture of a carriage on my hard drive I was going to use, not sure of diagram, but I can't for the life of me find it now.

Charlie

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19 hours ago, drduncan said:

A T20?  

Thanks,  that's a good one,  T29 is too. They're thirds which isn't ideal but it looks like the only lookout composite I can see is the U22 you mentioned. I've got an etched kit for the U22 layout (also builds a slip coach F18 or 19) which I'd forgotten about.

I'm reprinting the S5 with thicker ends today to see if that fixes the bowing.

Edited by Charlie586
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This layout thread (and I use the term layout loosely) is 2 years old. I think I've done more the past six months than the previous year and half. in hindsight scratchbuilding the rover has taken far too much of my limited time, but it is what it is. Anyway, time for a bit of jackanory.

 

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Fergus, who is looking bedraggled after spending a few months sleeping in a ditch and living off foraged berries, inspects the carriage and tells the policeman it won't be long until the train leaves platform one. The policeman disagrees and points out the axleboxes, springs, couplings and steps need to be finished. And the contractor doesn't seem in any hurry, he adds.

 

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When a tailless dog befriends him, he apologises for not having any treats before the dog runs off.

 

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You there, scruffy peasant, said the rich man. My dog has run away,have you seen him? I'll tan his hide when I get hold of the little blighter.

Fergus considers saying yes, but is unsure the man makes an ideal dog owner, so says no, he hasn't seen it.

 

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If you see him, let me know, the man says. And for god's sake, tidy yourself up, you look a right state.

 

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With the man gone, Fergus again befriends the dog and suggests he stay with him. My ditch is more than big enough for both of us, he says.

 

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With daylight beginning to fade, so ends another crazy day at Wantage Road.

 

Normal service will be resumed soon.

 

 

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Managed a bit of midweek modelling due to a cold/flu thing.

 

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started adding solebar detail made from plasticard with rivets raised by gently pressing from behind with a bluntish pin. As you can see I pushed too hard on the semi-circular one at the bottom of the photo. I also made a step for the carriage, cut some brass for various underframe parts and started chopping up more transoms as the second piece of standard (or narrow if you prefer) track is now down. A headache stopped play so I did some 'research' instead (more of that later)

 

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Close up of the second print of the carriage printed as one piece, not yet primed. There's still bowing at both ends and the step marks are more visible than the side alone printed at an angle (as it's now printed vertically) but otherwise it's good enough for me. I'm going to add the door handle plate to see if it prints, smooth the tumblehome a bit more and when printing next I'll put a temporary piece in between the end carriage and compartment divider to try and stop the bowing.

 

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This was going to be my next trick, slot in compartments, but I've harrised the dimensions up so they don't fit. I was going to try the whole thing as one piece, but I wouldn't be able to fit glazing then. This way the glazing would be clamped in place between pieces. The doors and windows will end a bit overscale width-wise but it may thin down further. I'll take a view when I get them to fit.

 

Researchwise, I spent a bit of time looking at underframes. I'm going to need 4 wheel, 6 and both types of bogie (rigid and dean) for a combination of standard (or narrow etc), standard on broad frame, and broad. I don't think I've even seen a 6 wheel standard gauge width carriage on broad underframe photo, so a bit more digging is needed. I need a quicker way of making underframes, I do like cutting brass and soldering but I'm not quick enough nor have the time, and will end up with 50 carriage bodies and one underframe by this time next year. There's also the whole suspension/springing thing to consider, I'm not sure I'll get away with a ratio underframe with the thin broad gauge society bridge rail, things seem to like derailing. Don't know, more research and testing needed I suppose.

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Keep up the good work on the 3D prints, looking good. Ref 6w standard gauge bodies on bg underframes, Penrhos  Junction lists U21,22,28, and T51, 64. There’s some of the latter appear in the well known photo of carriages at Swindon dump in 1892. Should I wish you a speedy recovery from flu? Maybe not ;-)

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2 hours ago, Northroader said:

Keep up the good work on the 3D prints, looking good. Ref 6w standard gauge bodies on bg underframes, Penrhos  Junction lists U21,22,28, and T51, 64. There’s some of the latter appear in the well known photo of carriages at Swindon dump in 1892. Should I wish you a speedy recovery from flu? Maybe not ;-)

Thanks.  I was looking at the dump photo the other day, but was looking at k's . I'll dig out the BGS mag that had a good piece on it.

 

I reckon it'll be another day or so before I shift this flu thing. I'm sure I'll find something to do... 

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So, after perusing various things, the 6 wheel standard body on broad underframe is essentially the same as the bogie version except its obvious length. I cant find a royalty free photo on the web, but the body of the underframe is basically what I'm trying to create for the K2 (there's a photo of a plasticard attempt a page or two back). This is going to mean more cutting up brass, or maybe even buying brass strip though I seem to remember that worked out expensive. As for chassis etc, I'm not going to need a cleminson as the underframe is rigid so couldn't go round bends even if I had any. I think some form of inside bearing rockers with a fake axlebox outside will do. For the standard gauge carriages, a bit in the future at present but it don't hurt to think ahead, I might getaway with inside bearing rockers (if they exist) and a ratio underframe outside, adapted for 6 wheels obviously. 

 

Filed the carriage and compartment down until I got it to fit

 

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There is glazing trapped on the nearest side. The total side width of both pieces varies between 1.6 and 2.2 mm so I guess the width is a bit overscale. The detail inside (which I didn't go mad on) is barely visible, but it is 4mm. I think Mavis Miggins might be underscale (or just small) but I haven't got any other seated figures. I'll check all dimensions and have another go, the carriage sides will thin down a bit more before it becomes wobbly.

 

I altered the S5 cad into a U16 (very similar but has 2nd 1st luggage 1st 2nd instead of 3 3 luggage 3 3) and added internal bracing however it's 31ft (124mm) and the print maximum is 120mm so have had to print at an angle. I think I've exhausted the LA9N's that I want (apart from the one I can't remember) so next job of smoothing the tumblehome more and raising eaves and end etc may take a bit.

 

Finally, been doing this off and on over the past month firstly to try and get a saddle tank's curves for  future BG saddle but got carried away, it's not broad gauge, is more an 'inspired by' than the actual thing, and I'm sure the real thing never made it Wantage way.

 

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I've got an old 14xx whitemetal kit that I'm never going to build, the chassis from it needs cutting a bit and the springy trailing axle needs moving forward. I can't find the motor that came with it too which is annoying.

 

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Might have to reprint with a thicker spectacle plate and bunker as it's paper thin, and add sandboxes etc. I'm going to need another layout for 'not Wantage' stuff soon, only joking, though a micro layout / diorama thing would be nice.

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Yes, or full drop-in interiors, allowing you run with or without passengers :)

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42 minutes ago, drduncan said:

I really like the idea of drop in compartments!

D

Thanks. I thought it would be easier to do it once in cad (or 3 times, once for each class) than try to scratchbuild for each carriage compartment.

 

24 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Yes, or full drop-in interiors, allowing you run with or without passengers https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_smile.png

 

Thanks Mikkel. Sides might bow in if it's printed completely empty (without compartment dividers), though it didn't on the tiny culm valley third. Could work with temporary support that's removed after it's fitted to an underframe, and you'd need two rooves, one attached to each interior. I'll give it a go one day.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Northroader said:

If it’s any help, I had a look at sixwheeler chassis on my thread some time back.https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107190-washbourne/page/37/

 

7mm rather than 4mm, but much the same ideas. That little saddle tank looks good, you’re mastering 3D very well.

Thanks. I remember reading that at some point. The 2nd looks easiest for me to try to replicate on the middle axle. I haven't found any suitable Broad gauge pinpoint axles,  so front and rear axles need inside bearings. The BGS pinpoints I have are shouldered (2mm in middle 1.5 or so where wheels go on) so not suitable for mansells.

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Charlie,

Making some BG pinpoint axles is on my to do list.  If they make on to the much rarer ‘done’ pile, how many would you need to be going on with?

DrDuncan

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Charlie,

What can package do you use? Could you do a tutorial on how you made your 3D prints?

DrDuncan

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1 hour ago, drduncan said:

Charlie,

Making some BG pinpoint axles is on my to do list.  If they make on to the much rarer ‘done’ pile, how many would you need to be going on with?

DrDuncan

 

Hello

Thanks but not sure yet as with pinpoints I'll still need a way to spring/compensate, and I'd have to spring/compensate the axlebox and bearing instead of just the axle. In my next post I think I've found another way.

 

1 hour ago, drduncan said:

Charlie,

What can package do you use? Could you do a tutorial on how you made your 3D prints?

DrDuncan

 

I use blender, but most seem to go for autocad now as it's available as a free licence for non commercial use. I learnt cad using JCL's tutorial on this site (3d printing, CAD section in skills and knowledge) so another tutorial would just be repeating that (and not as good as his).

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16 minutes ago, Charlie586 said:

 

Hello

Thanks but not sure yet as with pinpoints I'll still need a way to spring/compensate, and I'd have to spring/compensate the axlebox and bearing instead of just the axle. In my next post I think I've found another way.

How about using Bill Bedford sprung bearing carriers behind a cosmetic ‘w iron’ (not that all BG stock ones look like Ws) and axlebox. The pressure from the axle will keep it up against the ‘w iron’.  I’m sure I saw an article in MRJ doing just that (but for RTR SG)

D

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So with the flu cold seemingly getting better in time for the weekend, I've done a little bit more today.

 

To start, a heavily cropped photo from a 6 wheeler standard body broad underframe 7mm kit build.

 

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I fancied another go with plasticard instead of brass to get a 6 wheeler some time this year instead of next, so this time I used thicker pieces

 

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1mm  thick for the main body (the old one used 0.5) and 0.75 ish for the board. It seems more rigid than the previous one.

 

I got out the 6 wheeler kit I've not touched yet (U22) to look at the underframe 

 

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Below the ruler is the standard gauge underframe, to make a broad frame you cut it in half lengthwise and solder a slab of brass in to increase the width. Above the ruler is a hornblock type of inside bearing - the little etches in the middle fold up and slide up/down the guides with spring wire attached between it and the underframe. Based on current kit build rate, it will be a while before it's built, but at least there is a way to get an underframe for homemade 6 wheeler bodies. Though it would be expensive as the sides and standard gauge parts wouldn't be needed (saying that the body above would make a cracking grounded mess van).

 

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I did the bottom step though only blu tacked for now and pondered on using thick bearings or brass section drilled to 2mm to make a form of hanging inside bearing that's sprung down (I did a similar thing for the rover leading wheels). Still pondering the exact method, but pondering is half the fun of all this.

Edited by Charlie586
typo
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41 minutes ago, drduncan said:

How about using Bill Bedford sprung bearing carriers behind a cosmetic ‘w iron’ (not that all BG stock ones look like Ws) and axlebox. The pressure from the axle will keep it up against the ‘w iron’.  I’m sure I saw an article in MRJ doing just that (but for RTR SG)

D

Thanks

I wish I'd read your reply before I posted all that above. Just googled them quickly, that could work, but don't know if I'd need to widen them to 24mm or thereabouts. The 'W' itself looks a bit flamboyant, looking at the kit, but most is hidden by the frame.

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1 hour ago, Charlie586 said:

Thanks

I wish I'd read your reply before I posted all that above. Just googled them quickly, that could work, but don't know if I'd need to widen them to 24mm or thereabouts. The 'W' itself looks a bit flamboyant, looking at the kit, but most is hidden by the frame.

I’m sure I’ve seen it done using just the sprung carrier and using the existing rtr/kit w iron rather than the one bill supplies. But he also does BG ones via Eileen’s Emporium...

D

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43 minutes ago, drduncan said:

I’m sure I’ve seen it done using just the sprung carrier and using the existing rtr/kit w iron rather than the one bill supplies. But he also does BG ones via Eileen’s Emporium...

D

I think I get it, the axle rests directly in the spring carriers? Didn't know you could get BG ones, I'll get a set next time I order bits.

 

I noticed earlier The BGS do an etch with just the 6 wheel underframe and springing pieces ref the U22 kit so I could start building the one I've got as it can be replaced when needed later.

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I had some comet standard gauge W irons so gave it a go

 

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With the wheels on 'the wrong way' and gauged to broad gauge they're a good fit and it works fine, they spin quite freely. Thanks for your help, DrDuncan. They've not got springing via wire like Bill Bedfords, instead it's attached to a rocking plate. I'm hoping that will be enough but will buy some BB ones anyway for next time.

 

I'll solder three of these to the strip of brass so I can re-use them when I get round to building the brass underframe. One small problem is the limited room in the underframe because I've used over scale plasticard. I need proper mansells as well instead of these temporary wheels as I need to start thinking about buffer heights, ride height etc.

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