Maplin administration

[rockershovel]

The other side of that is the issue of whether you want to support jobs in the UK.

 

If everyone in the UK decided to buy all his stuff from China (or any other country) most business in the UK would have to close. It is very short sighted to think that you are doing yourself a favour by buying at the cheapest price. It was the same thought process that led to the demise of the UK coal and steel industries and the mom-n-pop local stores that lost out to supermarkets.

 

By the way I am not speaking in defence of Maplin. You don't have to go to China or even to Ebay to find UK suppliers that are more competitive than Maplin. Even RS Components was cheaper for lots of things.

 

...R

Well, exactly. Paying a premium to support British manufacturing is one thing, but paying a premium to support retail jobs is another thing altogether.

 

Personally, I don’t much grieve the “local, mom-and-pop stores”. My grandparents and parents operated a business of that sort for many years, it was a hard living and not a very rewarding one either. They were determined that their children not follow them into the business, and we didn’t, for all that it had supported two generations of the family. My late mother was delighted to see her children pass into various white-collar livelihoods (actually as a staff nurse, in my sisters case)

[hayfield]

I would contend you are increasingly in the minority ,John .the figures show that in thd market share of internet stores is growing,often at the detriment of bricks and mortar shops. I by 90 % of all railway modelling materials over the internet and I appreciate the convienence of shopping from my home , when I can buy 100 LEDs from China for $1.50 postage included , then u can see why maplin was doomed

 

I guess I am, but I have time to do these things and quite often mistrust companies I do not know, where as my daughter is time poor and internet shopping is a must in certain cases

 

The other thing is not everyone has shops (they want to use) near them 

[Robin2]

And where exactly do R S Components get their components from? oh wait - CHINA.

So your personal goal is to get your stuff as cheaply as possible with no regard for other people's jobs in the UK?

 

I presume you have no problem if other people in the UK do their best to put you out of a job.

 

...R

[Colin_McLeod]

I suspect a lot of Maplins stock also originated in China.

 

Let's not confuse manufacturing jobs with retail jobs.

[Robin2]

Let's not confuse manufacturing jobs with retail jobs.

I'm not confused. Why are people making a distinction between them?

 

...R

[meil]

So your personal goal is to get your stuff as cheaply as possible with no regard for other people's jobs in the UK?

 

I presume you have no problem if other people in the UK do their best to put you out of a job.

 

...R

Well actually I do buy my stuff from RS. the principal reason being that I rely on their expertise to source compliant components - so that I can rely on their quality control. I pay them for that service. However the blinkered support of inefficient industry only leads to one thing  - even more economic decline.

 

Why do you think all the cars manufactured in this country are by Japanees companies - because the like of Red Robbo aided and abetted by incompetent management destroyed the British Industry.

Edited April 1, 2018 by meil

[Butler Henderson]

RS expertise is a bit of hit and miss - I tried to get some matching 5A multiway sockets and plugs, not that difficult you would think but needless to say having ordered the parts on their advice I had send them back to be restocked as they did not match.

[Robin2]

because the like of Red Robbo aided and abetted by incompetent management destroyed the British Industry.

The likes of Red Robbo only get a chance to "flower" when incompetent management makes that possible. It seems to be happening again on the trains - with the customers as the patsies.

 

It is utterly incomprehensible how someone can on the one hand advocate self-interest through buying from the cheapest source and on the other hand decry others (trades unions) pursuing their self interest.

 

...R

[rockershovel]

Several issues becoming confused, there.

 

Surely the difference is that manufacturing creates wealth, adds value, and might be exported, whilst retail creates nothing, adds no value and has largely lost its value as an export channel.

 

I don’t dispute that uncontrolled, ideologically motivated Trades Union activism did a great deal of harm to British manufacturing, but that included Demarcation, which was strongly supported because PROVIDED that workload can be sustained, it provides obvious rewards (security and continuity of income) to a high proportion of the labour force.

 

British management seemed to lose its way completely in the 1950s and 1960s. The classic example would be the Dockers, who ran the huge BSA group completely into the ground. For an acerbic and deeply jaundiced, but first-hand view of this, Bert Hopwood’s account of the decline of the British Motorcycle industry is a solid, if depressing read. In the late 1940s, BSA could produce a genuinely successful new model from scratch in a matter of months. By the 1960s this was completely lost.

 

A major contribution was the complete inability to respond to technical change. British motorcycles included such nonsense as “oil mist” and “stalactitic lubrication” , while the piecemeal transition away from Whitworth threads meant that late BSA and Triumph machines contained every thread form known to man, Japanese manufacturers were rapidly developing German research combined with radical production engineering techniques to produce completely new machines incorporating high added value at every stage

 

The Germans, in particular have fundamentally different concepts of Management and Trades Unions. They take the view that sustaining the wellbeing of the company is in the common interest, and their government supports that view. This is one reason why the EU was, and remains, much closer to the hearts of Europeans than the British. The much-reviled CAP had its origins in a historic problem affecting France and Italy - the impoverished agricultural regions of the South and South-West. It was, in the modern vernacular, populist politics, the pursuit of popular acceptance by offering an identifiable benefit.

Edited April 1, 2018 by rockershovel

[meil]

The likes of Red Robbo only get a chance to "flower" when incompetent management makes that possible. It seems to be happening again on the trains - with the customers as the patsies.

 

It is utterly incomprehensible how someone can on the one hand advocate self-interest through buying from the cheapest source and on the other hand decry others (trades unions) pursuing their self interest.

 

...R

I didn'y say I advocate buying from the cheapest source. I buy from the cheapest source that also provides the quality I want. There is a value to quality. I don't decry unions advancing their self interest - that's what their members pay them for. However I don't think the destruction of the British car industry was exactly in the interests of the employees of that industry. What was in their interest, as more than demonstrated by those that came after, which was to produce cars of quality that people wanted, and importantly, able to buy. BL produced high price c*ap.They might have got away with it if they had produced low priced c*ap like LADA.

Edited April 1, 2018 by meil

[meil]

Several issues becoming confused, there.

 

Surely the difference is that manufacturing creates wealth, adds value, and might be exported, whilst retail creates nothing, adds no value and has largely lost its value as an export channel.

 

 

Retail does add value. it connects the manufacturer to the people buying the product. it enables the breakdown of the quantities the manufacturer needs to produce to the quantities that the buyers want to buy.

[Pandora]

"I didn't say I advocate buying from the cheapest source. I buy from the cheapest source that also provides the quality I want"

 

Agreed, the most expensive part/device/component you will ever pay for is the one that is the "cheapie " not fit for purpose, & has to be thrown away/fixed/replaced with the correct choice of specification and quality and  which was probably only slightly more cost in the first place.

 

The Japanese motor industry and electronics industry took on that  concept post WW2

 

This man was said to have been the driver:.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

[rockershovel]

I didn'y say I advocate buying from the cheapest source. I buy from the cheapest source that also provides the quality I want. There is a value to quality. I don't decry unions advancing their self interest - that's what their members pay them for. However I don't think the destruction of the British car industry was exactly in the interests of the employees of that industry. What was in their interest, as more than demonstrated by those that came after, which was to produce cars of quality that people wanted, and importantly, able to buy. BL produced high price c*ap.They might have got away with it if they had produced low priced c*ap like LADA.

We seem to be saying the same thing, in different forms!

 

I fully agree, that unions are paid for by members who in return, expect their interests to be supported (note that as I found to my cost more than once, this often didn’t include the interests of members of OTHER unions, or none). I fully agree that the destruction of the British car industry served no one’s interests.

 

I also agree that the key function of the industry - to produce a saleable product of appropriate quality - seems to have broken down completely, and that the role of retail in distributing that product at a profit is self-evident.

 

The problem was, and remains that no one seemed to be capable of producing a saleable product, at any price. British cars of the late 60s and 70s were shockingly bad examples of design, and usually badly underdeveloped into the bargain.

 

Add to this that the only government which seemed seriously interested in addressing the issue of adversarial labour relations - Labour in the 1960s - notably failed to do do, because the TUC were having none of it.

 

The NHS is often described as “the nearest thing the English have to a religion” ... somehow, the idea that nationalisation could be extended to produce industrial success was lost, or never established itself. The NCB produced genuine, world class technical innovation, and to what avail? The railways produced the Standard steam locomotives, a total dead end, then the HST - which no other railway wanted, having long since opted for electrification. Shipping faded away. Oil, the great national adventure of the 70s and 80s, was squandered when it could have been another Statoil, and look how that carried over to offshore renewables.

 

No, the problem rests with all sides, equally.

[melmerby]

IMHO We stil have crap productivity, crap unions, crap management & crap politcal parties.

 

One of the current casualties of the high street shake up is the restaurant sector, which seemed to have had a business model of employees being paid below the minimum wage.

Now they are being forced to pay a bit more they are blaming the government for their demise, it's strange that each time a restaurant in Birmingham goes belly-up another is waiting in the wings to replace them.

 

We're doomed, I say, doomed (Pte Fraser!)

 

keith

[Coryton]

The NHS is often described as “the nearest thing the English have to a religion” ... somehow, the idea that nationalisation could be extended to produce industrial success was lost, or never established itself. The NCB produced genuine, world class technical innovation, and to what avail? The railways produced the Standard steam locomotives, a total dead end, then the HST - which no other railway wanted, having long since opted for electrification. Shipping faded away. Oil, the great national adventure of the 70s and 80s, was squandered when it could have been another Statoil, and look how that carried over to offshore renewables.

 

We're getting way off topic here...but are you claiming the HST as a failure from a nationalised industry because BR only managed to find one export customer?

 

I've read many accounts of the HST and none of them have suggested that export sales were  a particular motivation for developing it.

[Robin2]

I didn'y say I advocate buying from the cheapest source. I buy from the cheapest source that also provides the quality I want.

That is just a smokescreen. I never suggested that anyone buys cheap cr*p on purpose. My comment was intended to refer to the cheapest at the right quality.

 

 

 

There is an excellent motor museum in Coventry - well worth a visit. The last few  times I was there it had a large area with images and artefacts from that sorry period of the decline of BMC and BL. I presume it is a permanent display. However nowhere does it try to analyse why things all went wrong so that future generations can avoid the same mistakes. It seems a very unfortunate omission.

 

...R

[jjb1970]

Looks like we have some good candidates to apply for executive and senior management roles in industry then, polish those CVs and send'em in!!

[meil]

That is just a smokescreen. I never suggested that anyone buys cheap cr*p on purpose. My comment was intended to refer to the cheapest at the right quality.

 

 

...R

Well yes I am suggesting I buy the cheapest in those circumstances. To do otherwise leads to complacency and the inefficient allocation of capital. All that happens is you simply put off the inevitable demise for a few years. You end up worst off in the long run.

[hayfield]

So your personal goal is to get your stuff as cheaply as possible with no regard for other people's jobs in the UK?

 

I presume you have no problem if other people in the UK do their best to put you out of a job.

 

...R

 

The whole retail trade is going through a massive transformation, from top to bottom and side to side. Customers buying habits have changed massively over the last 5 years.

 

Internet shopping is one area, there is also competition coming from new entrants. The shoppers buying habits have altered.

 

Supermarkets no longer solely rely on keen pricing to entice customers through the doors. Household names are either in decline or have gone to the wall. 

 

Its not only Maplins, and plenty more will go the same way. on the other hand other areas will blossom and flourish. The trick being to supply the customer what they want whilst making a profit.

[rockershovel]

We're getting way off topic here...but are you claiming the HST as a failure from a nationalised industry because BR only managed to find one export customer?

 

I've read many accounts of the HST and none of them have suggested that export sales were  a particular motivation for developing it.

I’m a great fan of the HST, as I’ve posted elsewhere. It was a huge step forward from the old LHCS trains.

 

Nonetheless, it was a highly specialised design which only made sense in the context of a railway network which was about three decades behind world practice - specifically, electrification.

[Robin2]

 three decades behind world practice - specifically, electrification.

Electrification may have made sense on very busy routes when the alternative was grossly inefficient and inconvenient steam - and especially in countries with cheap hydro-electricity.

 

I have never been convinced that it makes sense to spend all that money on OHLE infrastructure when the alternative is diesel power and with the halting of the electrification to Bristol it seems that the management is finally waking up.

 

The only reason to choose electric power in place of diesel would be if it is cheaper when all of the costs are fully accounted for. That should mean that the train operating companies cover the full cost of electrification (at the lineside, in the generating stations, and transmission network) and reduce ticket prices and make more profit. If that equation doesn't work then electrification makes no sense.

 

...R

Edited April 1, 2018 by Robin2

[melmerby]

The only reason to choose electric power in place of diesel would be if it is cheaper when all of the costs are fully accounted for. That should mean that the train operating companies cover the full cost of electrification (at the lineside, in the generating stations, and transmission network) and reduce ticket prices and make more profit. If that equation doesn't work then electrification makes no sense.

 

...R

No.

Electricity is more environmentally friendly, especially as the UK is rapidly expanding it's carbon free generation. Diesel is harmful to health & the atmosphere.

 

Keith

[Robin2]

 

Electricity is more environmentally friendly, especially as the UK is rapidly expanding it's carbon free generation. Diesel is harmful to health & the atmosphere.

To the extent that that is true it can be built into a tax on diesel fuel.

 

What about the health of the environment if a nuclear power station fails?

 

What about train timetables if the wind stops blowing?

Or if the Russians cut off the supply of natural gas?

 

I might have more sympathy for electricity if it was being generated from British coal - but that day is long gone.

 

 

Of course now that we have all this new-fangled internet stuff we probably don't need to travel at all.

 

...R

[jjb1970]

Wow, this really is the thread that keeps on giving!  

[Robin2]

The whole retail trade is going through a massive transformation, from top to bottom and side to side. Customers buying habits have changed massively over the last 5 years.

 

Internet shopping is one area, there is also competition coming from new entrants. The shoppers buying habits have altered.

 

I seem to have missed this earlier.

 

Yes, it is true that shopping habits have changed.

 

But we need to ask whether that is a good thing or whether the long term benefit is being lost in a short term rush for selfish gain without consideration for the impact on others.

 

Just because we can does not mean that we should.

 

...R