Class 116 diesel multiple units

[chrisf]

There is plenty more to tell in the long and enduring tale of Class 116 – so much, in fact, that it has taken me even longer that I thought to put it together.  Thanks for being so patient.

 

We need now to deal with the hybrid sets operating in the West Country.  Some of the116s were deployed on lengthy diagrams and it soon became apparent that toilet accommodation was needed.  The solution adopted was to exchange a toilet-fitted vehicle from a Cross-Country set with a vehicle not thus equipped from a suburban set.  The Railway Observer for December 1965 records the following temporary formations running in September and October 1965:

 

50898 from LA300 exchanged with 51585 from LA504

50902 from LA301 exchanged with 51586 from LA505

50918 from LA302 exchanged with 51583 from LA501

50921 from LA311 exchanged with 51590 from LA502

50877 from LA312 exchanged with 51588 from LA507

50900 from LA313 exchanged with 51582 from LA508

 

It should be noted that these formations were not static.  50710 was noted working with 50921+ 59376 on 27^th February at Torrington having replaced 50868.

 

The Chippenham – Calne branch closed after the last train on 18^th September 1965 and comprised 51134+59444+51147.

 

During 1965 the RCTS published a list of dmu allocations.  For Regions except the Western this was done at the end of 1964.  As always, the Western had to be different.  At this time, but not for much longer, vehicles of Class 116 were allocated only to the LM and Western.  Tyseley was the LM’s base and boasted the following allocation:

 

Driving motor brake second – 50050-79, 50085, 50831/3/59/60/61, 51129-31/3

Trailer composite – 59000-28, 59338/9/41/2/51, 59438-43

Driving motor second – 50092-9, 50100-21/7, 50884/6, 50912-4, 51142-4/6

 

Next time: the WR allocation as at late 1965 and the dispersals of late 1966 – how Scotland and Newcastle were introduced to the type

 

Chris

Edited June 10, 2018 by chrisf

[MJI]

Been priming my two Tyseley power cars this weekend. will be running with an ex 127 trailer.

[philip-griffiths]

Chris, what about liveries? When did these change please? I saw a picture of a set in south wales the other day and it said, short lived all blue livery. I can only remember blue and grey, i have no recollection of all white, but as my interest is post steam pre-TOPS, i am interested in that corporate transition.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards

[Pteremy]

There is a good image of a hybrid set at East Anstey in 1965 at -

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/110691393@N07/12203790194

 

And some others in an RCTS thread

 

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?img=66-95-26A&serial=59&page=3

[chrisf]

Chris, what about liveries? When did these change please? I saw a picture of a set in south wales the other day and it said, short lived all blue livery. I can only remember blue and grey, i have no recollection of all white, but as my interest is post steam pre-TOPS, i am interested in that corporate transition.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards

 

Good morning Philip.  The short answer is 'gradually' but of course there is more to it than that.  The question does need addressing and it is one where the RO is not always as helpful as it might be.

 

Off the top of my head, the 116s all came out in unlined lighter green, the shade that I call 'almost but not quite malachite'.  The first and third batches had speed whiskers from day one but many of the second batch in South Wales were in service for several months before these were applied.  The first livery change was to lined dark green with whiskers and this would have been around 1962-3.  Then it starts to get complicated with the introduction of yellow panels instead of the whiskers.   I would say, and please pipe up everyone if I have got this wrong, that all over blue dates from around 1966.  It may be that there was no clear policy as to when or indeed whether blue and grey was applied.  I seem to recall that white with a blue band was intended to show that the set had been refurbished but ultimately blue and grey conquered all.

 

Philip, I understand that you and I will be at Scaleforum at the end of September.  Hunt me down and we will put the world to rights over a cuppa.

 

Chris

[br2975]

Chris, what about liveries? When did these change please? I saw a picture of a set in south wales the other day and it said, short lived all blue livery. I can only remember blue and grey, i have no recollection of all white, but as my interest is post steam pre-TOPS, i am interested in that corporate transition.

 

 

W50858 et al were the first set in all blue, with a white cab roof and small yellow warning panel recorded by the erstwhile Bob Masterman, at Cardiff Queen Street on 20th. March, 1967.

.

As for the revised DMU livery of white with a blue waistband, that appears to originate from the mid-1970s.

.

More info may be available at........

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130704-whiteblue-refurbished-dmu-livery/

.

Brian R

Edited June 11, 2018 by br2975

[Clive Mortimore]

Good morning Philip.  The short answer is 'gradually' but of course there is more to it than that.  The question does need addressing and it is one where the RO is not always as helpful as it might be.

 

Off the top of my head, the 116s all came out in unlined lighter green, the shade that I call 'almost but not quite malachite'.  The first and third batches had speed whiskers from day one but many of the second batch in South Wales were in service for several months before these were applied.  The first livery change was to lined dark green with whiskers and this would have been around 1962-3.  Then it starts to get complicated with the introduction of yellow panels instead of the whiskers.   I would say, and please pipe up everyone if I have got this wrong, that all over blue dates from around 1966.  It may be that there was no clear policy as to when or indeed whether blue and grey was applied.  I seem to recall that white with a blue band was intended to show that the set had been refurbished but ultimately blue and grey conquered all.

 

Philip, I understand that you and I will be at Scaleforum at the end of September.  Hunt me down and we will put the world to rights over a cuppa.

 

Chris

Hi Chris

 

What about lined green? Derby 3 car suburbans did receive this addition in the early to mid 60s. 

[chrisf]

Clive, thanks for raising that.  To be honest, I'm not sure.  The shade of green for new construction changed in mid 1959, the first sets to wear the darker shade being the Derby built St Pancras sets [later Class 127].  I recall from my mis-spent youth in West London that the first 117s appeared in dark green unlined and that for some reason W51332 [but not the rest of the set] was repainted in the same livery but with lining.  I never came across a 116 having lining added to the lighter green but I have no cause to doubt what you say.  One does wonder, though, why stock would have lining added rather than a full repaint into whatever the latest livery was but then when has one not wondered at what the railways did?

 

Brian, thank you so much for sharing more of Mr Masterman's wisdom with us.  So set CAT347 was the first in blue.  It would not surprise me if some sets went straight from light green into blue without wearing lined dark green.   I recall my late grandfather wondering if the blue trains had been borrowed from another line.

 

It seems thst rumours of the demise of this thread are greatly exaggerated ...

 

Chris

[chrisf]

There is a good image of a hybrid set at East Anstey in 1965 at -

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/110691393@N07/12203790194

 

And some others in an RCTS thread

 

https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/mysteryphotos/show.htm?img=66-95-26A&serial=59&page=3

 

Thank you, Pteremy.  Those clicking the second link will discover that I used to be on the RCTS mystery photographs panel.  I had forgotten all about that one!

 

Chris

[TheSignalEngineer]

There is plenty more to tell in the long and enduring tale of Class 116 – so much, in fact, that it has taken me even longer that I thought to put it together.  Thanks for being so patient.

 

 

 

If you tried to explain all of the Tyseley formation and livery combinations it would probably break the internet

[MJI]

Well I am looking forwards to the story of Cardiff valley gangway fitting and the later history of Tyseley

 

Just found it was FOUR YEARS since I finished C301

[br2975]

 i have no recollection of all white, but as my interest is post steam pre-TOPS, 

 

Does this help ?

.

A recent (undated) find on a well known online auction site, showing set C300 ( 50080 + 59030 + 50122 ) at Cardiff, Canton.

.

Brian R

[philip-griffiths]

Does this help ?

.

A recent (undated) find on a well known online auction site, showing set C300 ( 50080 + 59030 + 50122 ) at Cardiff, Canton.

.

Brian R

 

Brian

 

I grew up in Pontllanfraith, cl. 37s on Halls Road to Oakdale was our diet.  As young child i remember steam locos - possibly NCB running up the line to Tredegar, but this was a rare event. I remember being called to the kitchen window when it happened.  

 

Watching Cl. 116s was the occupation when sitting on the Griag, outside my grandparents who lived in Aberbargoed. I had a clear and excellent view of Bargoed viaduct.  I can only ever recall Blue and Grey liveried stock on the line, but that does not mean I never saw what can only be called that 'white vision'.

 

many thanks for the photo.

 

regards

[The Stationmaster]

Brian

 

I grew up in Pontllanfraith, cl. 37s on Halls Road to Oakdale was our diet.  As young child i remember steam locos - possibly NCB running up the line to Tredegar, but this was a rare event. I remember being called to the kitchen window when it happened.  

 

Watching Cl. 116s was the occupation when sitting on the Griag, outside my grandparents who lived in Aberbargoed. I had a clear and excellent view of Bargoed viaduct.  I can only ever recall Blue and Grey liveried stock on the line, but that does not mean I never saw what can only be called that 'white vision'.

 

many thanks for the photo.

 

regards

 

Somewhat OT but you didn't by any chance find my Pentax lens cap down the bank somewhere on that line?   I dropped it there 44 years ago while taking pictures from a brakevan.

[br2975]

Somewhat OT but you didn't by any chance find my Pentax lens cap down the bank somewhere on that line?   I dropped it there 44 years ago while taking pictures from a brakevan.

 

I found it, and sold it for a pretty penny.......convinced the buyer the "M-R" written inside related to Monmouthsihre Railway & Canal Co. !!

.

Brian R

[chrisf]

As promised, here is the WR allocation of 116s, checked to Mid October 1965.

 

Bristol

 

50083 – spare motor, at this time often associated with Class 122 56292

 

50820/6/63/70, 50873/9, 50916/23 – power twins, sometimes running as 3 car sets with one of the trailers 59328/45/71

 

51134-7, 59444-7, 51147-50 – three car sets, formation not always maintained

 

Laira

 

LA300 50845+59352+50898

LA301 50849+59357+50902

LA302 50865+59372+50918

LA303 51128+59481+51140

LA310 50818+59326+50871

LA311 50868+59376+50921

LA312 50824+59332+50877

LA313 50847+59353+50900

LA314 50838+59346+50891

LA315 50854+59362+50907

LA316 50835+59337+50888

LA317 50829+59334+50882

LA318 50848+59356+50901

LA319 50865+59368+50918

LA320 50856+59364+50909

LA321 50866+59374+50919

LA322 50867+59375+50920

LA323 50855+59363+50908

LA405 50088+50130

 

One of the more endearing characteristics of Laira at this time was the frequency with which it renumbered its sets so the list above should be taken for what it is - a snapshot in time.

 

Cardiff

 

CAT302 50822+59330+50875

CAT303 50080+59030+50122

CAT306 50081+59031+50123

CAT307 50823+59331+50876

CAT311 50819+59327+50872

CAT312 50821+59329+50874

CAT313 50825+59333+50878

CAT314 50827+59361+50880

CAT315 50830+59343+50883

CAT316 50832+59029+50885

CAT318 50828+59336+50906

CAT319 50839+59347+50892

CAT320 50840+59348+50893

CAT323 50843+59355+50896

CAT325 50841+59349+50894

CAT326 50846+59354+50899

CAT327 50837+59358+50890

CAT328 50842+59350+50895

CAT329 50844+59335+50897

CAT331 50851+59359+50904

CAT335 50850+59365+50903

CAT337 50836+59344+50889

CAT338 50852+59360+50905

CAT341 50853+59367+50881

CAT345 50862+59370+50915 

CAT346 50858+59366+50911

CAT347 50084+59373+50126

CAT351 50864+59369+50917

CAT353 51138+59448+51151

CAT404 50086+59036+50128

CAT406 51140+59032+51153

CAT407 50091+59041+50133

CAT408 50834+59038+50887

CAT409 50869+59035+50922

CAT410 51132+59034+51145

CAT411 50087+59037+50129

CAT412 50089+59039+50131

CAT413 51139+59033+51152

CAT414 50090+59040+50132

 

Coming soon: the first mass exodus of 116s from the Western Region.  My apologies for the delay.

 

Chris

Edited June 17, 2018 by chrisf

[Pteremy]

Does this unwind the hybrids? Can we infer anything about livery changes?

[chrisf]

Does this unwind the hybrids? Can we infer anything about livery changes?

 

I am keeping my eyes open for reports about the cessation of the hybrids but my first guess is that the need for them ceased when the services that they worked were withdrawn.  When blue or blue and grey came in the inevitable consequence was some piebald sets, of which probably many more existed than were reported.

 

Chris

[chrisf]

Some snippets need to be recorded that do not fit handily elsewhere:

 

50083 and its significant other, 56292, were put to good use in the spring of 1965. The two cars were based at Eastleigh from January 1965 to train Southern Region drivers on WR units ahead of the summer timetable when they would be used on Woking – Basingstoke  - Salisbury locals replacing the Waterloo – Basingstoke locals.  The training specials worked a circuit Eastleigh – Salisbury – Woking – Eastleigh.  A photograph of this working with informative caption has been submitted to the editor of a magazine.

 

An RCTS scout was at work in the West Country in August 1966 and noted the following units in service:  8^th August: Falmouth branch, 50849+50902.  Newquay branch, 50870+59372+50923.  9^th August: Callington branch, 50865+50918.  It is symptomatic that reports like this are few and far between.

 

After the end of the summer timetable the first mass exodus from the Western Region took place, not counting the mass transfer of Tyseley’s allocation from the Western to the London Midland in 1963.  

 

Nominally in October 1966, Tyseley received the following sets from Cathays [50832+59029+50885, CAT316], Laira [50835+59334+50888, LA316] and Cathays [50837+59358+50890, CAT327].

 

In October and November 1966 Hamilton depot in Scotland received its first 116s.  From Bristol went 50820+59328+50873 and 50826+59345+50879, set numbers not known.  Laira surrendered 50818+59326+50871 [LA310] and 50829+59337+50882 [LA317].  The largest contribution was, as is so often the case, by Cardiff, comprising 50821+59329+50874 [CAT312], 50822+59330+50875 [CAT302], 50823+59331+50876 [CAT307], 50825+59333+50878 [CAT313].  New set numbers were allocated but not straight away.

 

In addition, four sets were sent to South Gosforth to cover partly for the withdrawal of Tyneside electric services.  50824+59332+50877 [LA312] came from Laira and the rest from Cardiff – 50827+59361+50880 [CAT314], 50828+59336+50906 [CAT318] and 50830+59343+50883 [CAT315].

 

There is more.  Towards the end of 1966 two sets were disbanded, the trailers placed in store and the seats removed from the power cars which were transferred to Southall and put to work on parcels traffic.  The sets concerned were 50819+59327+50872 [CAT311] and 50862+59370+50915 [CAT345].

 

The exodus of sets from South Wales may have presented difficulties at times.  The diagrams in force from 27^th June 1966 - printed with stencils and a duplicator at a time when the weekly notices were still typeset – showed 29 sets, stabled at Barry (5), Canton (5), Merthyr (2), Rhymney (7) and Treherbert (10, plus two single power cars).  By comparison, in winter 1958 there had been 46 diagrams.  Somehow there was enough time in the fleet to run two footexes to Ninian Park on the Wednesday after August Bank Holiday and for a standby train at Pontypridd on the preceding Sunday but on Bank Holiday Monday itself the fleet was at full stretch and had to be supplemented by loco-hauled workings.  The Weekly Notice makes interesting reading.

 

1968 would see transfers to Cricklewood, Stratford and Finsbury Park.   We will look at those after we have dealt with 1967 …

 

Chris   

 

[Clive Mortimore]

And Bachmann still believe they would make more sales from a 117 than a 116.

[jonny777]

Chris, what about liveries? When did these change please? I saw a picture of a set in south wales the other day and it said, short lived all blue livery. I can only remember blue and grey, i have no recollection of all white, but as my interest is post steam pre-TOPS, i am interested in that corporate transition.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards

 

 

 

Yes, the idea that the all over blue for suburban sets was "short-lived" is a bit misleading. I think someone is confusing the all over blue, with blue syp which was short lived, but only because the units were given full yellow fronts which made them look slightly different.  

 

I believe all over blue lasted at least 10 years from 1966 to refurbishment and the white with blue stripe livery; and then when the latter proved impractical to keep clean, everything became blue/grey from the early 1980s.

 

In addition to that, I have just discovered this page on the internet - http://www.railcar.co.uk/data/set-formations/ts355-ts702

 

This shows that at least one 116 set remained in all over blue well into the 1980s. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by jonny777

[The Stationmaster]

Talking about there being 'enough time in the fleet to run footexes' leads to a further point.  It is possible that the overnight numbers quoted by Chris relate to peak stabling at each location and the fewer sets might be in use on various days - reference to the diagrams themselves would clarify that.  the other point is that there were 29 (or previously 46 diagrams) that would not equate to the total number of allocated sets.  The reason for this is that the diagrams were based on a stated availability percentage and it would have been impossible for that to be 100% as sets were required for exams and maintenance and the larger exams would take more than a day even without any 'work arising' (which of itself would be unusual)

 

If we knew the availability percentage we would be able to quickly calculate the probable fleet size although that would as easily be obtained from any surviving fleet records.

[The Johnster]

And Bachmann still believe they would make more sales from a 117 than a 116.

 

Lima did as well, and some of the Bachmann decision to re-do the 117 may have been informed by the success of LIma's effort, which didn't even have the benefit of a DMS.

[The Johnster]

Chris, what about liveries? When did these change please? I saw a picture of a set in south wales the other day and it said, short lived all blue livery. I can only remember blue and grey, i have no recollection of all white, but as my interest is post steam pre-TOPS, i am interested in that corporate transition.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards

 

All-blue was applied from 1966 to the beginning of the refurbishment program which introduced the 'white with blue stripe' livery which denoted sets with refurbished interiors, and these were introduced around the time TOPS came on line, so for your purposes, post steam pre TOPS, some sets could still be running in lined green even into the early 70s.  The original 1966 blue livery retained the small yellow warning panels and white cab roofs.  The white cab roofs went first, and shortly afterwards full yellow ends appeared; this would be around the early summer of '67 IIRC.  South Wales 116s tended to remain in their sets, so livery variations within sets were rare.

 

Interiors, if you want to bother with them, on 'pre-refurbished' sets were a sort of light green pattern formica panelling and brown painted interior window frames (or were they varnished!).  Floors were a dark grey lino and seats were a grey/red moquette, best painted just grey in 4mm, with red vinyl headrests.  First Class had wood effect formica panelling and dark blue seats, with armrests, but you might want to check this as I am relying on memory.  I cannot offhand remember when first class was abandoned on the South Wales valleys services, but the accommodation was simply opened to second class passengers, the door '1's painted over, and the 'first' stickers removed; knowledgeable passengers headed for these compartments which not only had better seats but were in the trailer away from engine vibrations.  

 

Interior lighting changed with refurbishment as well, and prior to this the sets retained their original filament bulb lights, giving a soft warm glow that was not very effective for newspaper readers, but very distinctive.  

 

To sum up, for your period, plain blue livery with a predominance of full yellow ends, with maybe one of the interim or lined green  putting in an appearance, will be correct.  Use the same philosophy as you apply to the locos.

Edited June 24, 2018 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Talking about there being 'enough time in the fleet to run footexes' leads to a further point.  It is possible that the overnight numbers quoted by Chris relate to peak stabling at each location and the fewer sets might be in use on various days - reference to the diagrams themselves would clarify that.  the other point is that there were 29 (or previously 46 diagrams) that would not equate to the total number of allocated sets.  The reason for this is that the diagrams were based on a stated availability percentage and it would have been impossible for that to be 100% as sets were required for exams and maintenance and the larger exams would take more than a day even without any 'work arising' (which of itself would be unusual)

 

If we knew the availability percentage we would be able to quickly calculate the probable fleet size although that would as easily be obtained from any surviving fleet records.

This came to a bit of a head in 1976, when the drought and very hot weather meant that set availability was at an all time low and sets were frequently sent into service of necessity with insufficient working engines; the additional strain on the remaining ones would more or less guarantee failure in service.  Timekeeping became very aspirational, and the timetable was more or less in a state of collapse; Northern Rail's modern commuters don't know they're born!