chrisf Posted April 25, 2018 Author Share Posted April 25, 2018 If I were moderating this thread with a rod of iron I would point out that Margam station never appeared in the public timetables and that the dmus which served it were Cross-Country sets which are at best fringe to the main subject! While intervening, let me trail that the next topics I plan to cover are the service cuts of March 1962 [bristol] and June 1962 [Cardiff Valleys]. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 25, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 25, 2018 Fair enough, Chris; I'll go and sit on the naughty step for a bit and be grateful that you are not ruling the thread with a rod of iron... I justify my OT excursions by reckoning that the responses very often teach me something, yours especially. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted April 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 27, 2018 The Monmouthshire valleys were Red and White territory, Chris, not Western Welsh, though this was by no means exclusive in either case. Indecent haste and dodgy excuses support a story I was told in the 70s that someone very senior in the Newport District management was a director and major shareholder of Red and White; it is not impossible in those days of white heat modernisation road good rail bad attitudes that there may be some truth to this. The Newport Valleys local passenger traffic in now way conflicted with the Llanwern stuff, and it could have been argued that a passenger service could have been provided between Llanwern and the new town built for it's workers at Cwmbran. The station was, of course, in what came to be called Old Cwmbran and the site of the current one on the N,A,&H line is better from that point of view, but the steelworks has had it's day and things are different now. Whatever the reason, the Newport Valleys and Brecon and Merthyr services went before Beeching. Chris - please excuse this minor diversion from the real subject of this thread. Stories such as this about 'someone senior in railway management being a director/board member of such & such a 'bus company' are legion and, as usual, bear but a slight resemblance to the truth. In practice it was quite usual for the senior local BR manager - usually a District or Divisional Manager - to be on the board of the local (or several local) BTC owned 'bus company. Thus I would have been surprised if somebody from the Newport District/Cardiff Division had not been on the board/a director of Red & White. He could not, of course, have had any shares in that company as it was state owned but was there as much as anything to assist in achieving whatever integration might be possible between rail and 'bus services - that worked better in some places than it did in others. Secondly as far as the loss of the Newport valleys passenger services was concerned it seems to have been fairly commonly accepted in the Newport area, especially by Signalmen, that it would have been difficult to operate them alongside the considerably increased freight traffic which resulted from the opening of Llanwern steelworks notwithstanding the very flexible layout created at Newport by the 1961 resignalling. But in any case the closures were subject to the full closure procedure and as usual were based, at least in the public arena, on revenue against costs and the overall economics of operating them. There were considerable differences between the stations at Llanwern and Margam Halt. The latter opened in 1948 and only survived until 1964 while the station at Llanwern was closed in September 1960 although local services, again, only survived until 1964. The closure of Llanwern - which served a very small community and was some distance from the steelworks - was probably inevitable given the very high costs which would have been required to rebuild it in connection with the revised pairing of running lines east of Newport which took place in February 1961 and which required total demolition of the station. To have reproduced the station in the revised layout would have required considerable land acquisition and some bridgework and was no doubt rejected on cost grounds - which was probably just as well as it would only have been open for a handful of years! Apologies once again for deviation from the core subject of the thread. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted April 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 28, 2018 I have to add this additional anecdote; a bloke who had a flat in the same house as me a while ago was a retired Ebbw Vale steelworker, a 'latcher', which is what they called a shunter. He was quite knowledgable about the works' locos, especially the diesels. He lived in Brynmawr, and commuted by bus to Ebbw Vale, but used to go to the pictures in Abertillery by train. He, and most of his fellow passengers by his account, were in the habit of jumping out of the non-platform side of the train when it arrived at Abertillery, scarpering down the bank so as not to have to have tickets checked, and again on the return trip to Brynmawr by which time they were assisted by the cover of darkness, and not paying fares. 'Brilliant service, very popular, they should never have closed it' he said. Perhaps not the sharpest knife in the tray... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pteremy Posted April 29, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 29, 2018 There is a photo of a green 'whiskers' 116 at Ebbw Vale on eBay currently. Doubt it is a rare one though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieK Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Sorry to refer back to the Paddington emergency described above, but I have just found this image of a Class 118 cab. https://www.flickr.com/photos/95430950@N07/11059910994/in/album-72157638025661445/ 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 1, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 1, 2018 IIRC, there was no difference inside and only the position of the destination blind was different on 117/8 from any set with a 'Derby' cab. The basic cab layout of all the first generation dmus was very similar; there may have been some differences on sets with hydraulic transmission. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieK Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 The picture illustrated the "Not to Work into Paddington Suburban Station" message that I referred to a while back. Classes with the Derby cab with the roof headcode had a similar layout at the top of the windscreen, with the back of the headcode box in the ceiling, and the destination box set into the frame around the windscreen recess. The destination box is hinged at the top so as to swing up and away from the glass. Classes with this cab were 108 (later type), 117/118, 115 and 127. First Gen DMUs have broadly similar cab layouts although with the builder's own individual tweaks. Of the hydraulic DMUs, I never saw a Class 125 Lea Valley unit, but I have read that the power handle was pneumatic and controlled air pressure which in turn controlled engine revs. There was no need to change gear, so presumably a Forward and Reverse selector took the place of the gear selector. The Class 127 Pancras units were compatible with Blue Square units, and so had almost identical cab controls. The key difference was the speedo which showed the gear change points to assist the driver if in multiple with a mechanical transmission unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) The next segment is not quite as I had planned. It was my intention to review the service cuts of 1962 in Bristol and South Wales and this will follow - honest. Before that I thought it might be an idea to review the allocations of Class 116 as at June 1962. This is made feasible by the very welcome presence on railcar.co.uk of what is possibly the first official WR DMU allocation list and I extend my gratitude to Stuart Mackay for unearthing it. Chronologically this is timely, because between 1962 and 1964 very little indeed was reported in the enthusiast press about the doings of DMUs. There are two possible reasons for this. One is that there was nothing to report. I don't go a bundle on that one, because I have evidence that movements took place. More likely, IMHO, is thst the space was needed for reports of closures. Even before the Beeching Report there was much activity on that front and the level of interest was such that it had to be reported, even at the expense of other matters. Here, then, is the official report of the allocation of Class 116 cars as at June 1962, with amendments in June and July. Don't worry, I have not forgotten about the South Wales sets. For reasons which will become apparent I will deal with them separately but you could apply the process of elimination for now! Allocations, June 1962 Tyseley: DMBS 50050-78, 50085, 50831/3 TC 59000-28, 59338/9/41 DMS 50092-120, 50127, 50884/6 Bristol: DMBS 50083, 50859/60/1, 51129/30/1/3/4/5/6/7/8 TC 59438-48 DMS 50912/3/4, 51142/3/4/6/7/8/9/50/1 Laira: DMBS 50087/9/90/1, 51132/9/40 TS 59032/3/4/7/9/40/1 DMS 50129/31/2/3, 51145/52/3 Reading: DMBS 51128 DMS 51141 Amendments: wef 9/7/62: 59035 from Cathays [spare] to Tyseley wef 10/9/62: 50079+59351+50121 Cathays to Tyseley, 50859+50912 Bristol to Laira Chris Edited because I managed to overlook 50083 [how?!] Edited May 2, 2018 by chrisf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Sorry to refer back to the Paddington emergency described above, but I have just found this image of a Class 118 cab. https://www.flickr.com/photos/95430950@N07/11059910994/in/album-72157638025661445/ No need to apologise! Two matters arise. The first is that 51128 and 51141 should have carried that legend given their allocation to Reading. The second is that the layout of Paddington was revised in 1967. One result was that the LT lines were completely separated from WR tracks and there was no longer the possibility that a WR dmu would come into contact with third and fourth rail. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Now the South Wales sets. I set out below what appear to be the set formations in June 1962. One omission will be apparent at once. That is the two Newport sets that did not go to Laira or Tyseley at or before the end of April 1962. Logic suggests that they acquired CAT4xx set numbers but sadly no information has yet been uncovered. CAT300 50079+59351+50121 CAT302 50822+59330+50875 CAT303 50080+59030+50122 CAT304 50818+59326+50871 CAT305 50820+59328+50873 CAT306 50081+59031+50123 CAT307 50823+59331+50876 CAT308 50824+59332+50877 CAT309 50826+59334+50879 CAT310 50829+59337+50882 CAT311 50819+59327+50872 CAT312 50821+59329+50874 CAT313 50825+59333+50878 CAT314 50827+59361+50880 CAT315 50830+59343+50883 CAT316 50832+59029+50885 CAT318 50828+59336+50881 CAT319 50839+59347+50892 CAT320 50840+59348+50893 CAT321 50835+59334+50888 CAT322 50838+59346+50891 CAT323 50843+59355+50896 CAT324 50845+59353+50898 CAT325 50841+59349+50894 CAT326 50846+59354+50899 CAT327 50837+59358+50890 CAT328 50842+59350+50895 CAT329 50844+59335+50897 CAT330 50849+59357+50902 CAT331 50851+59359+50904 CAT332 50834+59342+50887 CAT333 50847+59352+50900 CAT334 50854+59362+50907 CAT335 50850+59365+50903 CAT336 50848+59356+50901 CAT337 50836+59344+50889 CAT338 50852+59360+50905 CAT339 50856+59364+50889 CAT340 50857+59358+50910 CAT341 50853+59367+50906 CAT342 50855+59363+50908 CAT344 50082+59340+50124 CAT345 50862+59370+50915 CAT346 50858+59366+50911 CAT347 50084+59373+50126 CAT348 50865+59372+50918 CAT349 50863+59371+50916 CAT350 50866+59374+50919 CAT351 50864+59369+50917 CAT352 50867+59375+50920 CAT353 50868+59376+50921 CAT354 50869+50922 CAT355 50870+50923 Sets 301 and 317 had been transferred to Tyseley after the London emergency and set 343 was disbanded after the Pontrhydyfen collision. Phew ... Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium JZ Posted May 2, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) Hardly surprising that people might ask. The photo was taken this morning in the subway at Cardiff Central. Clipboard01.png Walk down from 3&4 probably 5 or 6 times a week over the last ten years and this never registered. Will look out for it on my next visit, twice this coming Monday. Edit. Bank holiday(for some) Monday, engineering work between Newport & Cardiff = amended diagrams. So maybe not. Edited May 2, 2018 by JZ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip-griffiths Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) Was reading the book on the Ross, Monmouth and Pontypool Rd line and was surprised to see pictures of Cl116 at Usk. They used the line for driver training.Regards. Edited May 3, 2018 by philip-griffiths Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) Some snippets from 1962: Bristol cuts, March 1962 Following the advent of dmus the service level in the Bristol area was enhanced with the summer 1959 timetable. At the time the WR stated that it was designed to test the public reaction to a more frequent service. However, the opportunity to introduce an even-interval timetable was not exploited. The blame for the lack of public response to a more frequent service was attributed variously by BR to changing social habits and by local enthusiasts to the high level of service offered by competing buses. Whatever the truth, the cuts enabled ten dmu vehicles to be transferred to other duties. Cardiff cuts, June 1962 The pamphlet giving details is dated May 1962 and the commencing date 18th June. This happens to be the same date as the commencement of the summer timetable. Clearly the decision to implement the cuts was taken too late for the alterations to be included in the printed timetable. Nothing had been learned from the cuts of 30th June 1958, which came into effect a mere three weeks into the currency of the summer timetable. The level of service on the Maerdy, Senghenydd, Aberdare LL and Coryton branches was reduced so as to leave long gaps in the off-peak service except on Saturdays. The Vale of Glamorgan service was reduced to the extent that for most of the day one set would suffice and those lines which had a Sunday service lost it. On the main Valley network withdrawals were mostly confined to off-peak services and there were some retimings to enable one train to do the work of two. With consequent rediagramming it may have been possible to save a small number of sets but with very little difference being made overall. Closures At the end of the summer timetable the rudimentary passenger services between Barry and Pontypridd and Cardiff and Pontypridd via the ex-Barry Railway main line were withdrawn. In steam days the latter was known as the St Fagans Pullman. Also closed at this time was the passenger service between West Drayton and Uxbridge Vne Street. Although this branch was not 116 territory, an odd set comprising two power cars and a Hawksworth trailer visited Uxbridge on 8th September 1962. Photographs may be viewed on the Colour-Rail website (references 236408, 236409 and 236410). Unfortunately there are no clues as to the identity of the 116 vehicles, though prime suspects must be some of the Bristol allocation. With all this talk of cuts it is pleasing to be able to record an extension to 116 territory. From 10th September 1962 units of this type based at Bristol were introduced on the Minehead branch. On 3rd December 1962 the Rhondda and Swansea Bay line was closed between Cymmer Afan and Neath. This had been partially operated by 116s, one of which came to grief at Pontrhydyfen. The Bridgend – Blaengwynfi service was reorganised to run through the Rhondda Tunnel to Treherbert and turned over to 116 operation with sets stabled at Treherbert, representing another extension of territory. Now what happened in 1963? Chris Edited May 5, 2018 by chrisf 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieK Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Chris, Can't wait to find out! Looking forward to the next installment... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 So what did happen in 1963? By comparison with other years, not a great deal. The Railway Observer, source of so much information at other times, was fixated with the Beeching report and resultant closures and reported hardly any news of dmu happenings. Modern Railways, as it had become, was more forthcoming. From 1st January 1963 the Southern Region’s territory west of Salisbury had been transferred to the Western Region. This effectively meant the end of the SR’s proposed East Devon diesel-electric multiple-unit scheme whereby a fleet of Hampshire-style units would have been based at a new depot near Exmouth Junction. The prime candidate to receive these sets would have been the Exmouth branch, where BR standard Class 3 tanks and sets of BR Mk 1 suburban coaches had held sway for the past eight years or so, aided by Ivatt Class 2 tanks and the odd M7. One of the first acts of the Western Region was to incorporate workings to Exmouth into the diagrams for Laira dmus outbased at Newton Abbot. On 15th July a diagram was introduced for a suburban power twin coupled to a three-car Cross-Country set, covering among other services the 5.45 pm Exeter Central – Budleigh Salterton, which ran non-stop from Exeter to Exmouth. In the winter 1963-64 service the dieselisation of the Exmouth branch was complete, save for one train in each direction, with the interesting side-effect of through trains from Exmouth to Plymouth, Kingswear and Newton Abbot. As many trains were reduced to second class only it is a fair bet that they were run with the 116s transferred in from Newport during 1962. The extended diagrams must have stretched availability to the limit, for in September 1963 a 116 power twin was transferred from Cathays to Laira. A photograph of 50869+50922 [formerly CAT354] at Newton Abbot may be found on Robert Carroll’s Flickr site. https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/22061142309/in/album-72157603648796702/ Oh, and with the ink on the Beeching report barely dry, the Western Region lost little time in issuing closure proposals for the Aberdare – Abercynon, Porth – Maerdy, Cardiff – Coryton, Caerphilly – Senghenydd, Cardiff General – Cardiff Clarence Road, Barry – Bridgend, Bristol – Severn Beach, Filton - Avonmouth and Taunton – Yeovil Pen Mill services. All were operated by Class 116 sets ... Coming soon: 1964 – closures, service cuts and mass migration Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pteremy Posted May 6, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 6, 2018 There is an often reprinted picture of a 3 car Class 120 set at Tiverton, on the 12.50pm Exeter to Dulverton (and return) in summer 1963 (22nd June to be precise). I thought i had read somewhere that this was a 'Class 120 turn' that summer, all services on the Exe Valley otherwise remaining steam hauled. But recently I have also come across photographic evidence of a 3 car Class 116 set on that turn - in one photo at Thorverton, the other at Dulverton (with the 2.10pm ex Barnstaple Junction, although the set itself was not due to depart back to Exeter until 3.15pm). The date for later photo is 6th July. No vehicle numbers are visible but the set has a small yellow panel front (unlike the Class 120). I don't have the relevant WTT to know whether the set had other duties either side of this trip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 Thanks, Pteremy. You will already have twigged that reports of dmu happenings in 1963 were pretty thin on the ground. My understanding is that it was just the one Exe Valley turn that produced a dmu, the other two remaining steam hauled until the end. Observers in 1962 reported that the Cross-Country sets were used indiscriminately [what he meant, though not what he said!] with the 116s on the Exeter - Kingswear service, though as the only 116s in use in the West Country then were second class only and second class only trains were specified in the public timetable it would be the case that the diagrams specified which type of set was to work which train. Failures happen, improvisations happen, and what you report comes as no surprise. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Many pages back there was a brief discussion of W50083 and its pairings in the 1970s. I don't know if it is of interest to anyone but on 28th Feb 1978 I saw it at Reading in a 3-car set with 59500 and 51399. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 6, 2018 Author Share Posted May 6, 2018 That makes sense, Jonny. 51357 suffered fire damage and 50083 was drafted in as a replacement. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) One of the first acts of the Western Region was to incorporate workings to Exmouth into the diagrams for Laira dmus outbased at Newton Abbot. On 15th July a diagram was introduced for a suburban power twin coupled to a three-car Cross-Country set, covering among other services the 5.45 pm Exeter Central – Budleigh Salterton, which ran non-stop from Exeter to Exmouth. In the winter 1963-64 service the dieselisation of the Exmouth branch was complete, save for one train in each direction, with the interesting side-effect of through trains from Exmouth to Plymouth, Kingswear and Newton Abbot. As many trains were reduced to second class only it is a fair bet that they were run with the 116s transferred in from Newport during 1962. The extended diagrams must have stretched availability to the limit, for in September 1963 a 116 power twin was transferred from Cathays to Laira. A photograph of 50869+50922 [formerly CAT354] at Newton Abbot may be found on Robert Carroll’s Flickr site. https://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/22061142309/in/album-72157603648796702/ This one: W50869-W50922_NewtonAbbot_8-63 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Edited May 7, 2018 by robertcwp 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted May 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2018 Peter Brabham has just posted a batch of John Wiltshire's pictures of DMUs in the Newport valleys, taken a couple of days before closure. https://flic.kr/p/25y6tte https://flic.kr/p/25udz8a https://flic.kr/p/245aSm1 https://flic.kr/p/JGfeT5 etc. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 8, 2018 Peter Brabham has just posted a batch of John Wiltshire's pictures of DMUs in the Newport valleys, taken a couple of days before closure. https://flic.kr/p/25y6tte https://flic.kr/p/25udz8a https://flic.kr/p/245aSm1 https://flic.kr/p/JGfeT5 etc. Thanks for those Andy. In the last photo the passengers caught my eye, I am a great believer in the passengers have to be dressed right as well as the trains being right on a layout. The group of mums look like they and the kids would be a nice model. As for the old boy in the corner of the photo, he has to be modelled. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pteremy Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 Yes. Interesting to note that in the welsh photos all the whiskers are essentially horizontally for a short distance before they reach the sides of the vehicle - whereas the whiskers in the photo at Newton Abbot have a continuous curve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted May 9, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2018 Yes. Interesting to note that in the welsh photos all the whiskers are essentially horizontally for a short distance before they reach the sides of the vehicle - whereas the whiskers in the photo at Newton Abbot have a continuous curve. Hi That is an interesting observation. Now if we start saying this unit has "Welsh whiskers" and this one has "English whiskers", how long before a manufacturer offers the livery variation of Welsh whiskers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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