Scratchbuilding Boulton's Hercules No.2

[Barclay]

Blimey I've only been away a fortnight and you're well on the way with another one! Looking good.

[ianblenk]

What can I say, brilliant! Always had a soft spot for this loco.

 

Ian B

[Ruston]

Thank, chaps.

 

Further progress includes the sandboxes, both front and rear, and the brake gear, as far as can be fitted until the wheels are present. I have also fitted one cylinder but the parts for the other, and the motion bracket have been made.

 

 

The bunker has been filled with lead sheet.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

There is still work to be done on the bodywork but for the moment I have turned my attention to the workings of the loco.

 

The power unit is a cheap "N20" unit, which consists of a motor of the same size as a Mashima 10/15 that comes fitted to a brass and steel spur gearbox. These units are very powerful little things and this will be the third that I have installed in my loco builds. To turn the drive through 90 deg. requires either bevel gears or a spur gear and crown wheel, which are cheap nylon parts from China.

 

 

 

The unit is mounted on an inclined cross member of the frames and is held in place by 2 countersunk 10BA screws. If there is enough space the gearbox shaft can be left at its original length so that the spur gear can be pushed up the shaft to disengage the unit whilst fettling the wheels and rods but as I wanted to keep the length as short as possible, so that it can hide behind the firebox, I have had to make everything a tight fit. To enable the drive to be disengaged I have made a carrier for the crown wheel, which has a screw through to the axle. Because the nylon material doesn't take any glue very well the backing plate on the carrier, and the crown wheel have been drilled in two places. The carrier backing plate has two .75mm brass pins soldered into it, which locate in the holes in the crown wheel and provide the drive in place of glue.

 

 

The frames have been made with compensation beams for the leading axles, whilst the rear axle rocks on the end of a screw that can be adjusted to level the loco and to take up wear. The frames and wheels are painted and as soon as I have assembled the plunger pickups I can fit the wheels..

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

I thought I would have a running chassis by now but it has been fighting me all weekend.

 

 

The unpowered chassis rolls well enough but the problem is with the compensation system. Unlike something fitted with a High Level gearbox, the drive forces are on one side of the axle only and this is causing the drive side to be pushed down when in reverse. The axle is pivoting on the screw and raising the whole back end until it reaches the limit of movement in the elongated slot in the frames. This extreme movement then causes the thing to limp along and then for the coupling rods to bind. I can't give the rods any more clearance on the crank pins as too much slop causes another set of problems, especially as there are four crank pin holes per side to slop, which I found earlier (this is the second set of rods that I have made now).

 

The frames are going to have to be built again and this time I will have the driven axle fixed. I realise this will stop the compensation on the front axles from working properly - there will be no compensating for roll on track joints and turnout frogs - but my tracklaying isn't that bad anyway. Having a fixed driven axle and the front pair free to pivot will still mean that on level track, and when approaching and departing changes of gradient, all wheels will remain in contact, so that'll do for me.The main thing is for it to run well.

Before I go to all the trouble of making and building a complete set of frames I may pull the driven axle set out and try to bodge the existing frames. I will take the bodywork and put it somewhere safe, just in case things start getting thrown out of the shed door, which is something I came very close to doing this afternoon!

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Barclay]

Don't waste that excellent chassis - wouldn't soldering a pair of top hat bearings into the frames do the trick? Alternatively you could make the gearbox float off the axle, so the pinion and crown wheel can't move in relation to each other, but I'd go for the easier option.

 

I thought I would have a running chassis by now but it has been fighting me all weekend.

 

The unpowered chassis rolls well enough but the problem is with the compensation system. Unlike something fitted with a High Level gearbox, the drive forces are on one side of the axle only and this is causing the drive side to be pushed down when in reverse. The axle is pivoting on the screw and raising the whole back end until it reaches the limit of movement in the elongated slot in the frames. This extreme movement then causes the thing to limp along and then for the coupling rods to bind. I can't give the rods any more clearance on the crank pins as too much slop causes another set of problems, especially as there are four crank pin holes per side to slop, which I found earlier (this is the second set of rods that I have made now).

 

The frames are going to have to be built again and this time I will have the driven axle fixed. I realise this will stop the compensation on the front axles from working properly - there will be no compensating for roll on track joints and turnout frogs - but my tracklaying isn't that bad anyway. Having a fixed driven axle and the front pair free to pivot will still mean that on level track, and when approaching and departing changes of gradient, all wheels will remain in contact, so that'll do for me.The main thing is for it to run well.

 

Before I go to all the trouble of making and building a complete set of frames I may pull the driven axle set out and try to bodge the existing frames. I will take the bodywork and put it somewhere safe, just in case things start getting thrown out of the shed door, which is something I came very close to doing this afternoon!

[Ruston]

Don't waste that excellent chassis - wouldn't soldering a pair of top hat bearings into the frames do the trick? Alternatively you could make the gearbox float off the axle, so the pinion and crown wheel can't move in relation to each other, but I'd go for the easier option.

I don't think that either of those is an option. I can't make the gearbox float off the axle because there is zero space to get such a thing in. Soldering top hat bearings into the frames is not really possible either because the outside dimension of the frames is at its maximum possible - there is a tiny gap between the frames and the backs of the wheel bosses. There's also the problem of how to centre such bearings.

 

I could faff about with other options of rescuing the chassis but the time spent doing that is probably better spent making new parts and starting from scratch. To be honest I'm not happy with the brake gear anyway, so I may as well re-do that too. It all depends on if I can get the plunger pickups and the buffers out intact or not.The rest is just sheets of metal.

 

I though this would work as the last loco that I built was the Judith Edge kit of a long boiler Kitson, which has a very similar compensation set up. The reason it worked in that loco and not in this is that I put the drive spur gear in vertically and the forces go fore and aft, rather than up and down. On that loco the fore and aft forces wouldn't lift the end of the loco up and are held in check by swinging arms anyway. In this loco there is no space to mount the motor to drive vertically as the rear axle is behind the end of the boiler.

[Sandhole]

I don't think that either of those is an option. I can't make the gearbox float off the axle because there is zero space to get such a thing in. Soldering top hat bearings into the frames is not really possible either because the outside dimension of the frames is at its maximum possible - there is a tiny gap between the frames and the backs of the wheel bosses. There's also the problem of how to centre such bearings.

 

I could faff about with other options of rescuing the chassis but the time spent doing that is probably better spent making new parts and starting from scratch. To be honest I'm not happy with the brake gear anyway, so I may as well re-do that too. It all depends on if I can get the plunger pickups and the buffers out intact or not.The rest is just sheets of metal.

 

I though this would work as the last loco that I built was the Judith Edge kit of a long boiler Kitson, which has a very similar compensation set up. The reason it worked in that loco and not in this is that I put the drive spur gear in vertically and the forces go fore and aft, rather than up and down. On that loco the fore and aft forces wouldn't lift the end of the loco up and are held in check by swinging arms anyway. In this loco there is no space to mount the motor to drive vertically as the rear axle is behind the end of the boiler.

You will crack this!!

You are the Geezer!!!!!

                       c.

[Ruston]

I have a plan so cunning that you could brush your teeth with it!

[Ruston]

Let's see if this works...

By the use of broaches I opened the 1/8th slot into a circular hole large enough to stuff a top hat bearing in. I then filed the bearing down inside and out, so that it is flush with the frame plates. If it isn't centred then it's not going to work but just in case it does work I have repainted the area of the frames where filing took off the paint. I'll leave that to dry until tomorrow and then I'll see if it has done the trick.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

It runs! The whole lot has been locked up so that it is now effectively a rigid frame. Not only does it run but it goes over switches and crossings on White Peak Tarmacadam (the layout that I use to test all of my locomotives on) faultlessly.

 

Lessons learned:

 

It's OO, not P4, and things don't tend to fall off the track if they aren't compensated, so don't bother with compensation; it's a complete waste of time and effort. None of my 0-4-0 engines are compensated and they run well through S&C, so why even bother at all with an 0-6-0?

 

If you are going to fit compensation, don't try to drive the rocking axle with this type of drive!

[Barclay]

Good work - we knew you could do it!

 

I agree that even rigid loco's really shouldn't be falling off the track in 00 or EM, but I do think compensation helps with pick up. I've built a few rigid chassis for a friend and I have to admit I found it harder to get them to run really smoothly. Using the rods to set the wheelbase seems to help me but each to his/her own.

[Ruston]

On 11/07/2018 at 14:04, Barclay said:

Good work - we knew you could do it!

 

I agree that even rigid loco's really shouldn't be falling off the track in 00 or EM, but I do think compensation helps with pick up. I've built a few rigid chassis for a friend and I have to admit I found it harder to get them to run really smoothly. Using the rods to set the wheelbase seems to help me but each to his/her own.

I don't understand what you mean by using the rods to set the wheelbase. Shouldn't both be the same anyway?

 

Back to the part of building that is more enjoyable than the hassle of making things run.

 

 

Footplate steps now on and tank fillers made and fitted. The backhead has more added detail now in the form of the regulator handle and the gauge glass and test cocks. Although it isn't shown in the drawing I have used modeller's licence to add a rack for fire irons on the RH tank top. After all, it would need something to stop Mr. Knowles' paintwork from being damaged by these items.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[NeilHB]

Very glad to see that you've managed to sort out the chassis problems Ruston. 

 

I quite like the shade of green used for the chassis and wheels - what make is it please? 

[Barclay]

I don't understand what you mean by using the rods to set the wheelbase. Shouldn't both be the same anyway?

 

I use horn block assemblies, normally MJT, which you solder into cutouts in the frames, so you put a jig axle in the horn blocks, and another in a datum position, normally the fixed rear axle bearings, and fit the coupling rods over the ends of these to ensure that when you solder in the horn blocks, the wheelbase exactly matches the holes in the rods. It works for me, because the chassis requires no accurate drilling, and I'm not very accurate.

 

The loco is looking fantastic - look forward to seeing the layout all these old-timers are intended for.

[Ruston]

I use horn block assemblies, normally MJT, which you solder into cutouts in the frames, so you put a jig axle in the horn blocks, and another in a datum position, normally the fixed rear axle bearings, and fit the coupling rods over the ends of these to ensure that when you solder in the horn blocks, the wheelbase exactly matches the holes in the rods. It works for me, because the chassis requires no accurate drilling, and I'm not very accurate.

 

The loco is looking fantastic - look forward to seeing the layout all these old-timers are intended for.

Now I understand. I don't use hornblocks, so things are much simpler and as I use the axle centres on the frame patterns to make the rods the centres on the rods are identical.

 

 

Very glad to see that you've managed to sort out the chassis problems Ruston. 

 

I quite like the shade of green used for the chassis and wheels - what make is it please? 

The frames and wheel rims are LSWR Drummond Green with the centres and spokes being Highland Railway mid green. Both colours are Phonenix paints. These two will form the colour scheme on the bodywork with the Highland green for the main panels and the Drummond green as a border. No one knows what colour the real Hercules was painted, so no one can say it's wrong and I like green engines. I'll probably get it lined with a single red line between the two shades of green

[Ruston]

The safety valves and cover, ready for fitting.

 

Would you believe that almost 5 hours of work has gone into that? Most of that was spent filing the flare on the cover. The spring is held in place only by its own force and can be removed for painting.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[chris p bacon]

If it took 5 hours Dave I'd probably have made a £2 coin instead of the 20p one.

 

Looks excellent!

[Ruston]

 

That's the motion on one side done. I still need to make the crosshead-driven feed pump for this side but I'm going to leave it off the other side on the assumption that it would have a steam injector.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

Brake blocks, hot off the miller.

 

Actually not hot at all, which would mean disaster. I'm rather pleased with these as the last time I tried to cut plastic I ended up with a molten mess on the cutter and some unrecognisable lump of styrene on the table. This time I moved the drive belts around to get the slowest possible spindle speed at the cutter head and didn't hang around moving the stylus around the pattern. I've made these from plastic to eliminate the possibility of short circuiting through the wheels. One thing I hate to see on models is a huge gap twixt wheel and brake block.

The boiler feed pump is now made and fitted to the crosshead.

 

The pump consists of 9 seperate parts of tube, copper pipe and a couple of Gibson crank pin nuts. The flanges on the pump were made by cutting slivers of tube, which were soldered over the smaller, inner, tube. The piece was then rubbed down on an oilstone until the flange was thin enough. It has been quite a task to get it mounted with clearance for the connecting rod to pass behind it. I still need to make and fit the ram and its connection to the crosshead.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Ruston]

 

 

 

Despite what I said about not wanting to dimple out all those rivets, and getting etches done, I put a brand new cutter in the miller and cut out a tank side sheet from 5 thou. brass shim. Using nothing more than a steel rule and a piece of gound mild steel bar,  dimpled out the rivets. There aren't exactly the same amount as on the drawing but who's counting? It looks right enough. The beading along the top is 0.5 mm half-round brass, soldered on. I made a third tank side piece to experiment with and to solder to a test piece of thicker material. I drew the conclusion that soldering this to the bodywork would have resulted in distortion, so the actual pieces are glued on using 2-part epoxy as it just wasn't worth the risk of attempting to solder them on.

The beading need to be soldered to the front panel and despite the drawing showing no rivets on the bunker sides, rivets can just be made out in the photo, so I will have to make shim overlays for the bunker sides.

 

In other news, the backhead has been painted and weathered. The circle of 20 thou. brass is for a cylinder end cover at the piston rod end. The holes therein will be filled with lengths of brass rod to represent the studs, You'll have to use your imagination for the nuts.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston

[Adam]

That's absolutely superb, Dave. An impressive job of what, for the period, is quite a chunky machine. Makes the Brighton Terrier I've just finished look positively dainty (which obviously, it is, but Hercules rather rubs the point in). Can't wait to see it painted.

 

Adam

[Ruston]

Thanks. Adam. It's also quite unusual for the period in having outside cylinders on a six-coupled engine. If I wasn't going to the Foxfield, for the gala, this Sunday. I reckon I would have it complete and ready for the paintshop by close of play on Sunday..

 

Name and I.W. Boulton owner's plates have been ordered from Narrow Planet. It currently weighs in at 310 grammes - I do hope it doesn't upset the Civil Engineer too much!

[Ruston]

I have just put the last parts on the bodywork. This morning I fitted the last overlay panel and beading, plus handrails and, finally, the coal door on the bunker.

 

There are still jobs to do on the chassis, namely to finish off the brakes and make and fit the ram on the feed pump but the bodywork is now in the hands of Mr. Knowles* and his paintbrushes. There will be no more photos until Mr. Knowles has completed his work.

 

 

 

*For those who haven't read The Chronicles Of Boulton's Siding, Mr. Knowles was the chief book-keeper who was a self-taught artist and painter. He would paint the locomotives, often after hours, whilst wearing his frock coat and tall silk hat!

Edited July 21, 2018 by Ruston

[Ruston]

Isaac Watt Boulton's Big Big Colouring Book

Edited November 4, 2022 by Ruston