Dubdee spotted in Germany

[Allegheny1600]

Hi All,

A friend was on a recent spotting trip in Germany and he came across this fine looking machine, he's just sent me this pic;

 

Anyone on here know the story behind this, please? I know that quite a few austerities were in service in Greece and maybe even Turkey but never heard of one in Germany. Looks great to me.

Cheers,

John.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Allegheny1600

[Dava]

Rather late for April Fool's Day? Looks like Haworth Shed on the KWVR and their resident 'WD' 2-8-0 in a faux-German livery. What's a 'Dubee' anyway?

[Allegheny1600]

Oops! Dyselxia nd time stamp errors!

[Bernard Lamb]

Who nicked the chimney?

Bernard

[EddieB]

Well someone’s to be congratulated on picking the correct number sequence for a new class of German 2-8-0!

 

Just a shame about the characteristic Midland fencing and the shed door to UK loading gauge.

[readingtype]

 

 I know that quite a few austerities were in service in Greece and maybe even Turkey but never heard of one in Germany.

 

They were there in 1946, working in the Ruhr, according to Austerity 2-8-0s & 2-10-0s by J W P Rowledge, published in 1987. I daydream about a WD in H0 to go with the lovely Roco S160. Put either of these next to something continental (say, a BR 52 just for instance) and marvel anyone could have thought them perfectly capable of hauling a heavy train. Then there's the lovely Liberation class built by Vulcan Foundry, admittedly a different fish of kettle altogether. But I did discover that there is a brass model of that in H0, if you can track one down.

[Steamport Southport]

DJH made kits for them in HO back in the 1980s, even before they released them in OO gauge.

 

Since then they've released the USA TC S160 in HO but not in OO.

 

 

 

 

Jason

[Bernard Lamb]

They were there in 1946, working in the Ruhr, according to Austerity 2-8-0s & 2-10-0s by J W P Rowledge, published in 1987. I daydream about a WD in H0 to go with the lovely Roco S160. Put either of these next to something continental (say, a BR 52 just for instance) and marvel anyone could have thought them perfectly capable of hauling a heavy train. Then there's the lovely Liberation class built by Vulcan Foundry, admittedly a different fish of kettle altogether. But I did discover that there is a brass model of that in H0, if you can track one down.

 

They hauled 15 coach trains in Holland. That seems pretty good to me.

Of course the give away in the photograph, other than the chimney, as I pointed out in a previous post, is the wrong type of loco lamp. The steam heat pipe is also on the wrong side and should be higher up on the buffer beam.

OK you clever lot. Come up with a "correct" number for a big Austerity.  

Bernard

[EddieB]

OK you clever lot. Come up with a "correct" number for a big Austerity.

Bernard

Do you mean the hypothetical numbering of an Austerity 2-10-0 taken over by the Reichsbahn towards the end of the war?

 

It would be within the Br. 58 series, which by 1944 had reached 58.2929 with 2-10-0 locos absorbed from Poland and Czechoslovakia.  

 

Most likely it would have been in a new series starting at 58.3001, which as we all know was later used by the DR for the reconstructed of 56 members of the KPEV G12 type during 1958-1962.

[Allegheny1600]

They hauled 15 coach trains in Holland. That seems pretty good to me.

Of course the give away in the photograph, other than the chimney, as I pointed out in a previous post, is the wrong type of loco lamp. The steam heat pipe is also on the wrong side and should be higher up on the buffer beam.

OK you clever lot. Come up with a "correct" number for a big Austerity.

Bernard

Thanks, Everyone!

It was just a bit of fun for yesterday, shame it took me so long to find it that I had to post after 12 O'clock (It was before noon where I am, though!).

I had actually forgotten about the Dutch ones, ISTR there was a big "Project" going that at one point proposed to get an Austerity made (in H0) as those DJH ones are rare. A pity that seems to have disappeared, anyone know anything about it, please?

 

I agree with Eddie, our big WD may have gotten a 58.30 series number as it would have pre-dated the gorgeous DDR G12 rebuilds, I happen to think they are the most perfect looking steam locos built but that's a different story.

John.

[Allegheny1600]

They were there in 1946, working in the Ruhr, according to Austerity 2-8-0s & 2-10-0s by J W P Rowledge, published in 1987. I daydream about a WD in H0 to go with the lovely Roco S160. Put either of these next to something continental (say, a BR 52 just for instance) and marvel anyone could have thought them perfectly capable of hauling a heavy train. Then there's the lovely Liberation class built by Vulcan Foundry, admittedly a different fish of kettle altogether. But I did discover that there is a brass model of that in H0, if you can track one down.

I didn't know that!

Thanks, mate. I too dream of a WD in H0 - either the 0-6-0ST or the larger cousins.

John.

[Bernard Lamb]

 

 

 

I agree with Eddie, our big WD may have gotten a 58.30 series number as it would have pre-dated the gorgeous DDR G12 rebuilds, I happen to think they are the most perfect looking steam locos built but that's a different story.

John.

 

Eddie is probably right, but my first thoughts were for a 50 variant.

I agree re the 50 30. Amazing machines, though I hardly ever got a chance to see any of them in action.

I was once told that the WD locos on passenger trains at any sort of speed over 50kmph were rather violent

Bernard

[rodent279]

The lack of air brake is a give away too!

 

DB black and red rather suits it though.

 

On a separate note, is there a reason why DB/DR chose to have red wheels & underframe, or was it just aesthetics?

[TonyA]

On a separate note, is there a reason why DB/DR chose to have red wheels & underframe, or was it just aesthetics?

 

I was told that it made it easier to spot cracks. A wipe with an oily rag would show them up nicely. This is quoted from Anstrich und Bezeichnung von Lokomotiven by Wolfgang Diener.

 

Tony 

[Bernard Lamb]

The red wheels go back to the first locomotive to run commercially in Germany in 1835.

Was the origin of the idea specified by the purchaser or did it originated from G & R Stephenson in Newcastle?

That gets me thinking about yellow wheels on Rocket.

Bernard

[Allegheny1600]

I was told that it made it easier to spot cracks. A wipe with an oily rag would show them up nicely. This is quoted from Anstrich und Bezeichnung von Lokomotiven by Wolfgang Diener.

 

Tony 

This makes sense to me.

I know that after WW2, in the eastern section of Germany, the Soviets took a lot of electrification equipment back to the USSR as 'reparations'. After a few years, they returned some of it to the by now East Germany, where the locos at least, had to be re-gauged again (from standard to broad and back again). I understand this was by simply forcing the wheels back & forth along the axles - pretty rough treatment!

So, presently the East Germans painted these locos with red underframes and wheels - again, to easily spot any cracks appearing.

Cheers,

John.

[readingtype]

On a separate note, is there a reason why DB/DR chose to have red wheels & underframe, or was it just aesthetics?

 

'1926: new painting guidelines. Black/red standard livery for steam locomotives.

Above the footplate: black paint had an optical basis and made the dirtiness of the steam locomotives less conspicuous.

Below the footplate: red paint made it easier to discover cracks and warned of the dangers of the motion.'

 

Apologies for spoiling the surprise, but that's what I photographed on a display case in the DB Museum in Nuremberg earlier in the year. In the case a beautiful model of 43 001. Lots of other treasures remain though (NB all captions are monolingual in German).

Edited April 17, 2018 by readingtype

[Horsetan]

.... the give away in the photograph, other than the chimney, as I pointed out in a previous post, is the wrong type of loco lamp. The steam heat pipe is also on the wrong side and should be higher up on the buffer beam...

 

One or two engines did have the odd leftover DRG standard lamp still hanging around in DB days, but vast majority would have carried the Dreilicht-Spitzensignal by the 1960s

 

The smokebox door should also have a wheel-and-handle rather than two handles. Of course, being a DB engine in the "Keks" logo era, it might have survived long enough to have a door secured by dogs only, with the wheel and handle eliminated and the numberplate repositioned to cover. Plus a top electric light on the door.

 

Worksplates on the cylinder wrappers? The bufferbeam should carry the dates of the last brake exam and heavy overhaul. No white perimeter to the buffer heads?

 

And what about EDV-computer renumbering?

[rodent279]

So did any WD's get taken over by DR/DB, and did any run in black & red?

[Sir Madog]

So did any WD's get taken over by DR/DB, and did any run in black & red?

Most of the Dubdees remaining on the continent after WW II saw service with Nederlandse Spoorweg (NS), none of them ever entered service with DB or DR.

 

The picture of a Dubdee in DB or DR guise is a nice Photoshop job of a picture taken by Andree Hastle on October 15th, 2007

 

 

(Source: Wikipedia)

[RJEB]

You could have seen six Austerity 2-8-0s on the Detmold Military Railway between 1946 - 1948.

 

 

[readingtype]

And one went to the USA along with some of the experimental Reichsbahn steam locos such as 52s with Kondenstender -- photo in recent Eisenbahn Kurier (not fake news, that's out of fashion now).