Class 50 and 4-TC?

[LU_fan]

Not sure this is where it belongs, but here goes. I actually found this thanks to a surprising eBay find. Anyway, in this threads opening post, the third picture seems to show a Class 50 hauling a 4-TC, or possibly a Class 421 or 423. Was this something that happened regularly, or is this a special working?

 

Being a fan of the Hoovers and slightly odd train consists, I thought it might be fun to recreate in model form.

[Bomag]

On various visits to Clapham Junction and Salisbury in 1988/89ish I saw a few 50+4TC - AFAIR they were only used on the Salisbury services. Anything going further west were normally MK2 stock.

[LU_fan]

Ok, so they were actually regular services? Cool. But am I correct in assuming that the 50 could not be controlled from the 4-TC?

[Bomag]

 But am I correct in assuming that the 50 could not be controlled from the 4-TC?

 

The 4TC was used as normal hauled stock - they had normal ETH and drawgear (in addition to buckeye couplings and rubbing plates for being propelled by 4Reps or 33/1s)

[LU_fan]

Being a bit tired, I was just about to say that that didn't quite answer my question, only to realize that it actually did. "4TC was used as normal hauled stock" answers it perfectly.

 

But was that only during NSE days, or did it happen prior to that too?

[The Pilotman]

Stick “Class 50 4TC” into Flickr and that'll bring up a few pictures including one at Exeter St. David’s.

[Simon Bendall]

The 4TC was used as normal hauled stock - they had normal ETH and drawgear (in addition to buckeye couplings and rubbing plates for being propelled by 4Reps or 33/1s)

 

They did need brake hose extensions between the 50 and 4-TC though. It was a regular pairing during mid 1989 as 50s took over the Salisbury turns from 33/1s but there weren't enough Mk.2s available initially to replace the TCs.

[LU_fan]

It was a regular pairing during mid 1989...

Oh, so it was only during 1989?

[griffgriff]

They did need brake hose extensions between the 50 and 4-TC though. It was a regular pairing during mid 1989 as 50s took over the Salisbury turns from 33/1s but there weren't enough Mk.2s available initially to replace the TCs.

A daily afternoon turn during the week IIRC

 

Griff

 

Edit

 

Just looked at the photo in the link.... that’s St Denys on the Southampton line.

Edited May 23, 2018 by griffgriff

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

As a Guard at Eastleigh, in the mid to late 80's (86-88) there was a regular turn, where we worked a class 50 and a 4TC from Salisbury to Basingstoke weeknights all stations, arriving about 11-1130pm, the 50 was at the front and we awaited time at every station.

 

manna

[LU_fan]

Kind of a follow-up question, but perhaps better suited in its own topic. When used as regular hauled stock, did the 4-TC's ever run with any other kind of stock? Like Mk.1 or Mk.2 coaches?

[griffgriff]

Kind of a follow-up question, but perhaps better suited in its own topic. When used as regular hauled stock, did the 4-TC's ever run with any other kind of stock? Like Mk.1 or Mk.2 coaches?

I don’t recall it happening much but I’ve a vague memory of parcels stock (newspapers?/BGs or GUVs) as tail traffic on the evening Yeovil train.... I may be wrong though???

 

Griff

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Can't say I've ever seen that combination..

 

manna

[LU_fan]

Sorry to dig up an old topic, but this past Friday I was told that at least some of the 50's were rebuilt so they could actually operate a push-pull service with the 4-TC sets. Would anyone happen to have any more information about that? First of all, could anyone confirm if that really did happen? And if so, which locomotives were rebuilt?

[russ p]

No 50 was ever equipped to work with TC stock in push pull mode only 33/1, 73 and 74 could work in push pull mode with them

Edited October 28, 2018 by russ p

[The Johnster]

I don’t recall it happening much but I’ve a vague memory of parcels stock (newspapers?/BGs or GUVs) as tail traffic on the evening Yeovil train.... I may be wrong though???

 

Griff

 

Kind of a follow-up question, but perhaps better suited in its own topic. When used as regular hauled stock, did the 4-TC's ever run with any other kind of stock? Like Mk.1 or Mk.2 coaches?

 

If this did happen, and I have no idea if it did or not, the additional stock would need to be air-braked, as the 50s were the first class not fitted with vacuum brakes or even a through pipe; they could only work with air-braked stock.  There were certainly air-braked BGs and GUVs, though.

[keefer]

Class 50s had dual brakes, IIRC the first locos to be air only were the 87s.

[Fat Controller]

Sorry to dig up an old topic, but this past Friday I was told that at least some of the 50's were rebuilt so they could actually operate a push-pull service with the 4-TC sets. Would anyone happen to have any more information about that? First of all, could anyone confirm if that really did happen? And if so, which locomotives were rebuilt?

Sounds like something that 'Rail' might have come up with..

[LU_fan]

No 50 was ever equipped to work with TC stock in push pull mode only 33/1, 73 and 74 could work in push pull mode with them

Well, that answers that.

 

Sounds like something that 'Rail' might have come up with..

Don't know where it came from as it wasn't first hand information.

[Nearholmer]

There were a few (six, maybe) buffet (restaurant?) cars that were wired for working between pairs of TCs, but they were considered part of the EMU fleet, rather than "ordinary hauled stock". If you google for pictures of an excursion called the "Thames-Tamar Express" (c1976/77), that was composed of a two TCs, with a wired buffet, and a Class 33 each end ...... I know, 'cos I travelled on it. There was a similar excursion a year or two earlier, billed as the "Atlantic Coast Express", which went to more interesting places, but blowed if I can recall if that was the same formation.

[russ p]

Were those fitted with EP brakes Kevin?

Not sure how s conventional distributor fitted vehicle would behave in a train of EP stock being worked in EP mode rather than dragged in triple valve mode

[Nearholmer]

Very good question, to which I should know the answer, but don't. My guess would be that they were EP fitted.

 

You've made me think of a similar question, related to MLVs and TLVs, the latter of which were also what might be called "loose EMU stock", and I'd guess also EP fitted.

 

The MLVs certainly had a 'proportional valve', which yielded a proportionate brake application between the MLV itself and whatever stock it was pulling, and I think they might have been able to haul both air and vacuum-braked stock, and act as a 'translator' in either direction. The worrying thing about the valves on the MLV is that I can remember where they were, but not exactly what they did ...... bit of a while ago!

 

And, I can't check any of this, because I threw away all my "brakes course" material about two house moves ago.

 

Hopefully there is an RMWebber with a better memory than mine!

 

Edit: This website seems to have the answers to some of the questions http://www.bloodandcustard.com/bournemouth1966.html#PushPull and reminded me that the MLVs had vacuum exhausters.

Edited October 28, 2018 by Nearholmer

[Bulleidnutter]

Also, you would have had to change the ETH/ compressor fusing to accommodate a Cl 50 working a TC set as they were fused for 750v, for use with 33s and EDs rather than the 1000v Cl 50s. 

[DY444]

Also, you would have had to change the ETH/ compressor fusing to accommodate a Cl 50 working a TC set as they were fused for 750v, for use with 33s and EDs rather than the 1000v Cl 50s. 

 

ETH on a Class 50 is 800V so it was fine with a 4TC

Edited October 30, 2018 by DY444

[bécasse]

No 50 was ever equipped to work with TC stock in push pull mode only 33/1, 73 and 74 could work in push pull mode with them

 

.... and 09!