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11 hours ago, RBE said:

I saw those when I came up to see Shirebrook and I would be more than happy to run them. 

 

As for wagon prices, our Cavalex 2mm PGA hopper wagon was priced at £25 and although we had lots of interest we struggled to get retailers on board. At £25 we were barely breaking even on it. I would like to see it come back at some point as I would love for Cavalex to break the 2mm market.

Your chosen PGA is a good looking wagon, angular and sharp which you captured well in the modelling process and deserves to be on layouts.

I understand that retailers state that the N gauge market is smaller than OO/HO. However perhaps a smaller number of N clients may be purchasing a greater number of units. Also if there are more OO/HO products on display, lets say 90% more it's certain that more OO/HO products will be sold and the greater sales of OO/HO becomes a self  fulfilling prophecy.

Cheers

Duncan

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Yes we were somewhat confused also. If you believe what the retailers tell you N gauge is dead and not worth selling, yet Dapol, Farish and Revolution all seem to do ok.

 

Frustrating.

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4 minutes ago, RBE said:

Yes we were somewhat confused also. If you believe what the retailers tell you N gauge is dead and not worth selling, yet Dapol, Farish and Revolution all seem to do ok.

 

Frustrating.

Also evidenced by the massively high prices being paid on auction sites due to the lack of new product arriving on our shores.

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There's the famous story about when mountain bikes started to take off in America, a couple of guys approached a load of UK retailers and asked if they would stock these new bikes they were importing.  The retailers all said there was no demand.  Of course, said the importers, it's a new product, how can there be, but look at how successful they are in the States.  There's still no demand for that sort of bike in the UK, said the shops.

So the importers went their own way; their name was Muddy Fox.

 

Perhaps you just need to sell Cavalex direct and cut out the unimaginative middle-man altogether?  Shop owners know what already sells but most are very poor at predicting what will sell.  Who would have thought there would be a worthwhile market for the prototype diesels or some of the more obscure steam classes a few years ago?  Well Heljan, Bachmann and Hornby (and others) have taken the plunge and seem to have done so successfully.  You also have an advantage; no-one wants ten "Kestrels" but if you want a modern freight train, you are going to need ten of the same wagon......

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Sunday Diversions.

I was a little disappointed when Revolution were not able to progress the class 320/321 emu in Northern Livery. I have had ideas about building an imaginary trans Pennine electrified railway (other than Woodhead) linking Manchester with Leeds. I love the way the railway clings to the steep sides of the valley between Walsden and Sowerby Bridge, similar in fact to railways in Switzerland. The thought of a junction with a non electrified route, loco stabling and  traction changing scenario I thought would give an interesting model. However the non existence of emus and general electric traction class 81-85  has always stopped me from progressing the project further.

I designed and manufactured my own portal structures (based on the structures south of Crewe) for inclusion in a possible layout, (In fact some were used on Horsely Fields).

I built  this small diorama to display them- now I can display my small collection of electric locos also. I can't wait to ad my Revolution 92 to the display.IMG_2154.JPG.9e2627336d28ea72210f0429b4061645.JPGIMG_2159.JPG.b681ab830848623ea614706f1f828c44.JPG

 

Cheers

Duncan

 

Edited by Duncan.
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On 26/06/2020 at 22:41, Duncan. said:

A Tale of two Cities Twenties

The two twenties featured in this post are over 20 years old. They were manufactured by Graham Farish at Poole in Dorset. The Grafar class 20 was not the most detailed or reliable  locomotive produced and in common with other Grafar locos were prone to split gears which produced poor running and if left could cause the motor armature to overheat and burn out. The production models were modeled on the 4 character headcode  box versions of the prototype, from 20128 onwards. The disc head code variant was never produced, Bernard Taylor came to the rescue with detailing/conversion kits to model the first 127 members of the class.IMG_2148.JPG.87f90e885bdd1fb3e4f9bdbba832d98c.JPG

 

 The kit comprised etched detail parts and a cast resin replacement nose. The conversion was quite a big job but I deceided to do more starting with a complete strip the body back to the metal. The handrails on the bodyside were crude mouldings, I removed them using a scalpel. The roof radiator grille was also cast, I drilled that out and opened out the exhaust ports. 

The conversion kit requires the removeal of all detail on the cab front, all is filed away to leave a plain flat surface. The replacement etched cab front is glued to the prepared end. I drilled holes for the handrail  knobs along the bonnet and added an etched roof grille to the roof. The loco was painted and the final detailing added, including etched discs and the handrails. The nose end was painted and detailed remotely before adding to the completed body.IMG_2149.JPG.d3375b380114b3ab0f2b7f5973845a23.JPGI took the opportunity to add my own etched window frames to the cabsides and add bufferbeam detail. As I outlined above these locos suffer from split gears and during today's planned maintenance I had to replace 3 gear wheels to get 20010 running! They will inevitably split again. I fully dismantled the loco cleaned the bogies in my ultrasonic tank  relubricated and all is well for the time being. 20088 required just a clean. These locos run as a pair on Shirebrook as they have different running characteristics from the China produced Bachmann models. While not as accurate as the Bachmann model I am happy to run them on the layout as they remind me of the effort  that used to be required to make a unique model.IMG_2150.JPG.31242a432b711a6097b03a1a0aa2fa7a.JPGHere you can see the cast resin replacement bonnet noses. I took these photographs today after I serviced the locos.

Cheers

Duncan

Hi Duncan,

 

The 20's look really good, I remember 20088 running on Dallam paired with a newer model, centre headcode Railfreight? It looked perfectly at home in my opinion alongside the new model.

With regards to the split gears, I cannot remember where I read the suggestion, but I have been running a broach through the hole on the new gear wheel to open it up before fitment to allow the gear wheel to slide on easier (need to take time, check and check again when doing this and ensure not too much play), I then use a very very small amount of superglue to hold on the axle. The axles that have received this treatment so far (looking for some wood to touch!) have been ok and not failed again. 

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

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3 hours ago, Duncan. said:

Sunday Diversions.

I was a little disappointed when Revolution were not able to progress the class 320/321 emu in Northern Livery. I have had ideas about building an imaginary trans Pennine electrified railway (other than Woodhead) linking Manchester with Leeds. I love the way the railway clings to the steep sides of the valley between Walsden and Sowerby Bridge, similar in fact to railways in Switzerland. The thought of a junction with a non electrified route, loco stabling and  traction changing scenario I thought would give an interesting model. However the non existence of emus and general electric traction class 81-85  has always stopped me from progressing the project further.

I designed and manufactured my own portal structures (based on the structures south of Crewe) for inclusion in a possible layout, (In fact some were used on Horsely Fields).

I built  this small diorama to display them- now I can display my small collection of electric locos also. I can't wait to ad my Revolution 92 to the display.IMG_2154.JPG.9e2627336d28ea72210f0429b4061645.JPGIMG_2159.JPG.b681ab830848623ea614706f1f828c44.JPG

 

Cheers

Duncan

 

Brilliant diorama Duncan. Great to see your modeling skills put to use on some Electrics. 

 

Your idea for a layout sounds superb. Does a re-paint of a 321 not interest you? The 81s to 85s might be a little harder, but if you model slightly later the 86 to 92 exist.  

 

I hope you are keeping well. All the best,

Dave

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13 minutes ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

Your idea for a layout sounds superb. Does a re-paint of a 321 not interest you? The 81s to 85s might be a little harder, but if you model slightly later the 86 to 92 exist.  

image.png.3ad0b64ba6f73ac1d7c5657b2a87f2ee.png

 

Well Dave here's a track plan I drew up and below a 3d view

image.png.3dc88489e113704ad746925901505c49.png

 

I hopr it make sense. It's called 'Blackden and Wilshaw'

Cheers

Duncan

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In your Sunday diversions post pictures earlier today I can see a bogie Ferrywagon in the VTG livery (silver body with blue double-ended arrow). Is that a repaint? I didn’t think Dapol had ever produced that livery (I know the other blue Danzas one is the N Gauge Society commission by the way).

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6 minutes ago, Western Aviator said:

In your Sunday diversions post pictures earlier today I can see a bogie Ferrywagon in the VTG livery (silver body with blue double-ended arrow). Is that a repaint? I didn’t think Dapol had ever produced that livery (I know the other blue Danzas one is the N Gauge Society commission by the way).

Its by Roco and sadly to the slightly smaller 1:160 continental scale, therefore under size but I like it.

Cheers

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4 minutes ago, Duncan. said:

Its by Roco and sadly to the slightly smaller 1:160 continental scale, therefore under size but I like it.

Cheers


Ah, yes; on closer inspection I can see the size difference. It’s a shame Dapol haven’t done this version; there must have been lots of them in traffic. 

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On 28/06/2020 at 19:29, DavidMcKenzie said:

Brilliant diorama Duncan. Great to see your modeling skills put to use on some Electrics. 

 

Your idea for a layout sounds superb. Does a re-paint of a 321 not interest you? The 81s to 85s might be a little harder, but if you model slightly later the 86 to 92 exist.  

 

I hope you are keeping well. All the best,

Dave

or a 319 in Northern, when Farish release it. There's also a 323 kit from PH Designs too. 

 

Carl

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On 28/06/2020 at 20:49, Duncan. said:

image.png.3ad0b64ba6f73ac1d7c5657b2a87f2ee.png

 

Well Dave here's a track plan I drew up and below a 3d view

image.png.3dc88489e113704ad746925901505c49.png

 

I hopr it make sense. It's called 'Blackden and Wilshaw'

Cheers

Duncan

That's looking very impressive! A lot of interest and a very realistic track plan. I like the elevation changes (it's not just flat with a tunnel/road bridge at the end). The yard also looks 'right' with the head shunts and the like. Are you sure you don't want to start a new layout :).......it looks brilliant! 

 

All the best,

Dave

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6 hours ago, DavidMcKenzie said:

That's looking very impressive! A lot of interest and a very realistic track plan. I like the elevation changes (it's not just flat with a tunnel/road bridge at the end). The yard also looks 'right' with the head shunts and the like. Are you sure you don't want to start a new layout :).......it looks brilliant! 

Well David,

The station was imagined to be at one end of a triangular junction, so on the original post you arrive into the station from the left (Manchester) and then you can go straight on to Leeds or turn 'left' up the branch in the direction of the Settle Carlisle line (non electrified) the third part of the triangular junction is disused and partially lifted, see images below ( sorry this was done on my work computer and when I print screen I'm getting both screens)- the idea that it is possible for the viewer to watch trains pass by on the non electrified branch from within the disused tunnel- novel?image.png.61f560f5e6b018658c046268e5cb02fd.png

image.png.3014da61ad94f83c9b078b6153a4d959.png

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Wednesday Wanderings.

 

My apologies to readers who are solely interested in Shirebrook. Perhaps this post should be under a separate subject. This post is about N scale layout plans but from a different perspective. This will be a journey through time. It features the same place but in different years.

Any Place Junction from 1950

 

I can almost guarantee that the railway facilities near you have changed hugely over the past 70 years. In most cases this will be observed as a great reduction in the permanent way and railway infrastructure, if indeed the railway exists at all.  The plans below show an imagined junction location on any mainline. The first plan describes the location as it may have looked during the days of steam when the railway was at its maximum extent, while the next four plans show the various ‘rationalisations’ up to the present with the branch line and most of the previous locomotive and freight facilities  just memories.

I think each plan will make an interesting and exciting model when operated with rolling stock from the correct period in almost any scale. Certainly relevant rtr rolling stock is available for all time periods in N and OO/HO scales.

 

1950 Plan

This plans depicts the track work at its’ maximum extent. The branch line carries passenger and freight services. A colliery, quarry may be located along the branch. There is a general goods yard and a dedicated coal distribution depot as well as a small loco servicing depot and stabling point. At one end of the station area a railway company  built terrace was built, while at the other some brand new ‘semis’ have been built on higher ground overlooking the junction.

IMG_20200701_0002.jpg.a60652db8427052a0451ff4e3e55d63a.jpg

 

1970 Plan

The Beeching Cuts have largely missed Any Place Junction, but the modernization plan has had an effect. The loco depot has been demolished and replaced with a cement terminal. The coal sidings are lifted and replaced with a car park. MAS signaling has replaced the semaphores, the station building has been replaced with a modern concrete structure, built across the now lifted slow line. Part of the slow line now forms a parcels bay. The former signal cabins have been demolished and replaced by one new one located at the junction. I have shown OHLE structures on the plan but this would limit Any Place junction to the WCML or Anglia main line.

IMG_20200701_0003.jpg.bd158cc2076b43bf5e84eb7dde9077ac.jpg

 

1990 Plan

In this plan we see the lifting of the short lived parcels bay and the junction has been modernized to a single lead type. Small industrial units have sprung up on the last remaining part of the former coal yard and the goods shed and yard has been redeveloped as a rail connected warehouse/distribution depot along the lines of Gilbraiths at Blackburn or a steel terminal common to the West Midlands. The cement terminal could remain or become a stone terminal perhaps.

 

IMG_20200701_0004.jpg.5d31f440976746a64ceb516a6434a28e.jpg

2000 Plan

Further significant reductions in the rail infrastructure have taken place since our last look at Any Place Junction. Along with the reduction in sidings, the closure of the cement (or stone) terminal and singling of the branch after withdrawal of the passenger service, the road under bridge by the station has been replaced and lengthened to accommodate the widened road. Sadly the railway cottages of railway terrace have also been demolished and replaced with sheltered OAP housing.

 

IMG_20200701_0005.jpg.361fffe95300a538832a9c2e9594064b.jpg

 

2010 Plan

The last remaining signal box has gone, the branch has closed with the closure of the colliery/quarry and  is now no more than a head shunt for the sole remaining freight interest, the rail connected freight warehouse. A supermarket development has been built on the former cement terminal. Connections from the down main line to the freight facility have been removed. The last remaining long siding used lately for just withdrawn stock or engineers trains has been lifted.

IMG_20200701_0006.jpg.21ba08ba412c1d390ff00ea5df84f1b8.jpg

 

2020 Plan

Well this one is for all the younger modellers to imagine and draw up yourselves, perhaps an elevated HS2 will be under construction?

Cheers

Duncan

 

Edited by Duncan.
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2 hours ago, Duncan. said:

My apologies to readers who are solely interested in Shirebrook. Perhaps this post should be under a separate subject. This post is about N scale layout plans but from a different perspective. This will be a journey through time. It features the same place but in different years.

Any Place Junction from 1950

 

I can almost guarantee that the railway facilities near you have changed hugely over the past 70 years. In most cases this will be observed as a great reduction in the permanent way and railway infrastructure, if indeed the railway exists at all.  The plans below show an imagined junction location on any mainline. The first plan describes the location as it may have looked during the days of steam when the railway was at its maximum extent, while the next four plans show the various ‘rationalisations’ up to the present with the branch line and most of the previous locomotive and freight facilities  just memories.

I think each plan will make an interesting and exciting model when operated with rolling stock from the correct period in almost any scale. Certainly relevant rtr rolling stock is available for all time periods in N and OO/HO scales.

 

 

I really like this idea, the only similar concept I've seen was a Plan of the Month in the RM in the late 1980s. 

 

If it were an exhibition layout, you could build it in 1950s form to start with then every couple of years, update it to the next decade, so viewers wouldn't keep seeing the same layout.  You'd need a huge range of stock though!

 

Rob

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Inspirational stuff. So much so that I am embarking on my first attempt on a Dapol 56.

A few silly questions, hope you can help me please....

  • On the respray you took us through on page 6 of this thread, you removed the handrails and jumper cables, but the most recent resprays on pages 33/34 you did not. Any reason why?
  • The centre headlight has snapped off at both ends on mine, as I removed the cab interiors. I see this happened to the number 2 end on your recent 56029 respray. Was this an issue? Or did you have to replace the lighting sprue?
  • What did you use to strip the bodies? And is it totally necessary? (I've had bad experiences in the past using various substances, which has sent many bodies to their graves)
  • I haven't even looked at decals/transfers yet....any guidance? (especially things like overhead warning flashes)

Any help much appreciated. And keep up the work - it's brilliant!

By the way....any guidance on weathering the HAAs would be great...I've got just over 40 of them so far and I have no idea where to start....

 

Thanks

 

Mike

 

 

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7 hours ago, haslam999 said:

 

A few silly questions, hope you can help me please....

  • On the respray you took us through on page 6 of this thread, you removed the handrails and jumper cables, but the most recent resprays on pages 33/34 you did not. Any reason why?
  • The centre headlight has snapped off at both ends on mine, as I removed the cab interiors. I see this happened to the number 2 end on your recent 56029 respray. Was this an issue? Or did you have to replace the lighting sprue?
  • What did you use to strip the bodies? And is it totally necessary? (I've had bad experiences in the past using various substances, which has sent many bodies to their graves)
  • I haven't even looked at decals/transfers yet....any guidance? (especially things like overhead warning flashes)

 

 

 

Hi Mike,

I hope you're keeping well.

Your questions aren't silly.

After stripping the bodies I found it impossible to remove some of the fittings so reluctantly proceeded with them in place. Far from ideal although later on I did manage to remove all the cab side handrails, it would have been impossible to mask up for the 3T grey livery without removing them.

The snapped part remained in the aperture in the body and has made no difference when reassembled. I do have various spares that I can use if the need arises.

I used Precision stripper 2. Recently the formulation has changed and it now labelled as Precision Stripper 2. I think that you should leave the body immersed in the stripper for  the least possible time. As soon as the paint begins to lift/loosen take it out rinse  and scrub with a used toothbrush. If paint remains apply stripper locally to those areas, rinse, scrub and repeat. 

I finish off by placing the body in an ultrasound cleaning tank.

If you spray correctly you will see raised detail where one paint applied on top of another  on the previously livery . A good spray job will show all the blemishes present on the body, if it doesn't, i.e. it is obliterated such as when using  a car primer/undercoat that undercoat will also obliterate any fine detail present on the model, I am aware that some advocate use of car primers but they are wrong for this reason. It is essential that the body being sprayed in in perfect condition.

I use badger 150 air brushes, normally medium head but fine when the enamel paint is very thinned when doing subtle weathering.

IMG_2042.JPG.6ceb50f5650165505ca0022f7598619a.JPG

My basic tool kit and below my paints, well I have over 250 pots in total

IMG_2044.JPG.c566bd1372e5a8f7d4066278970de0a0.JPG

 

Transfers- I use Fox as a 1st choice and other makes if not available in the Fox range.

Weathering 40 HAAs is a big job. Use prototype photos and gat a general 'feel' for the wagons before commencing, or I could do them for you. PM me.

Cheers

Duncan

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On 01/07/2020 at 17:38, Duncan. said:

Wednesday Wanderings.

 

My apologies to readers who are solely interested in Shirebrook. Perhaps this post should be under a separate subject. This post is about N scale layout plans but from a different perspective. This will be a journey through time. It features the same place but in different years.

Any Place Junction from 1950

 

I can almost guarantee that the railway facilities near you have changed hugely over the past 70 years. In most cases this will be observed as a great reduction in the permanent way and railway infrastructure, if indeed the railway exists at all.  The plans below show an imagined junction location on any mainline. The first plan describes the location as it may have looked during the days of steam when the railway was at its maximum extent, while the next four plans show the various ‘rationalisations’ up to the present with the branch line and most of the previous locomotive and freight facilities  just memories.

I think each plan will make an interesting and exciting model when operated with rolling stock from the correct period in almost any scale. Certainly relevant rtr rolling stock is available for all time periods in N and OO/HO scales.

 

1950 Plan

This plans depicts the track work at its’ maximum extent. The branch line carries passenger and freight services. A colliery, quarry may be located along the branch. There is a general goods yard and a dedicated coal distribution depot as well as a small loco servicing depot and stabling point. At one end of the station area a railway company  built terrace was built, while at the other some brand new ‘semis’ have been built on higher ground overlooking the junction.

IMG_20200701_0002.jpg.a60652db8427052a0451ff4e3e55d63a.jpg

 

1970 Plan

The Beeching Cuts have largely missed Any Place Junction, but the modernization plan has had an effect. The loco depot has been demolished and replaced with a cement terminal. The coal sidings are lifted and replaced with a car park. MAS signaling has replaced the semaphores, the station building has been replaced with a modern concrete structure, built across the now lifted slow line. Part of the slow line now forms a parcels bay. The former signal cabins have been demolished and replaced by one new one located at the junction. I have shown OHLE structures on the plan but this would limit Any Place junction to the WCML or Anglia main line.

IMG_20200701_0003.jpg.bd158cc2076b43bf5e84eb7dde9077ac.jpg

 

1990 Plan

In this plan we see the lifting of the short lived parcels bay and the junction has been modernized to a single lead type. Small industrial units have sprung up on the last remaining part of the former coal yard and the goods shed and yard has been redeveloped as a rail connected warehouse/distribution depot along the lines of Gilbraiths at Blackburn or a steel terminal common to the West Midlands. The cement terminal could remain or become a stone terminal perhaps.

 

IMG_20200701_0004.jpg.5d31f440976746a64ceb516a6434a28e.jpg

2000 Plan

Further significant reductions in the rail infrastructure have taken place since our last look at Any Place Junction. Along with the reduction in sidings, the closure of the cement (or stone) terminal and singling of the branch after withdrawal of the passenger service, the road under bridge by the station has been replaced and lengthened to accommodate the widened road. Sadly the railway cottages of railway terrace have also been demolished and replaced with sheltered OAP housing.

 

IMG_20200701_0005.jpg.361fffe95300a538832a9c2e9594064b.jpg

 

2010 Plan

The last remaining signal box has gone, the branch has closed with the closure of the colliery/quarry and  is now no more than a head shunt for the sole remaining freight interest, the rail connected freight warehouse. A supermarket development has been built on the former cement terminal. Connections from the down main line to the freight facility have been removed. The last remaining long siding used lately for just withdrawn stock or engineers trains has been lifted.

IMG_20200701_0006.jpg.21ba08ba412c1d390ff00ea5df84f1b8.jpg

 

2020 Plan

Well this one is for all the younger modellers to imagine and draw up yourselves, perhaps an elevated HS2 will be under construction?

Cheers

Duncan

 


I really enjoyed thinking about the concept of this Duncan. The nearest I came to doing anything similar was when I asset stripped my old loft based 00 layout a few years ago.

 I took a bit of time (and an 08) to get a few shots of it being dismantled. 
Not quite the same as your idea but a fitting end to something I’d had a lot of enjoyment from over the years.

Here’s a little sequence that might give you chuckle:

 

D977841C-0F6E-4E4A-8B20-9C420E89EA1A.jpeg.33b82a5a1ef6bbe6f57c0bee7c34a15c.jpeg6751154D-463A-4170-96DA-F7C975FA5366.jpeg.7624e5ed4ccdbd22d8191b2821513ddb.jpeg9DA93461-1C23-4538-8FDC-056404D741F9.jpeg.b207ab49117beedb15b9a29133b5491f.jpeg


Sad times...

B07E4F09-17AB-4889-953B-01CC5DD0DA35.jpeg.572893359414eb4f09d4bd77c1acf610.jpeg

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On 28/06/2020 at 15:37, Duncan. said:

I designed and manufactured my own portal structures (based on the structures south of Crewe) for inclusion in a possible layout, (In fact some were used on Horsely Fields)

 

Hi Duncan,

 

Since discovering your Shirebrook thread, I often wondered if you were the originator of the StatesmaN OHLE portals - I picked up some kits from you at Warley some years ago, along with a RES Class 86 and an HST chassis, although I think the latter might have been a CJM product. The portals will be used on Bridgtown (eventually!).

 

Will you be building 'Any Place Junction' in the four formats, rotating similarly to Outwell Village Depot ;)?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

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40 minutes ago, Mark Pelham said:

Since discovering your Shirebrook thread, I often wondered if you were the originator of the StatesmaN OHLE portals - I picked up some kits from you at Warley some years ago, along with a RES Class 86 and an HST chassis, although I think the latter might have been a CJM product. The portals will be used on Bridgtown (eventually!).

Morning Mark,

Good to hear from you, yes I am guilty as charged! I worked closely with CJM, Chris taught me how to air brush amongst many other things. I still have OHLE structures for sale so if you need extras for 'Bridgetown'. I never had the time to fully develop the range which I regret.

I doubt if I will be building Any Place Junction, but I would be delighted if someone else made a model of it or a model based upon it.

The idea behind the plans was to build a model in the later formats where the railway has shrunk although the 'vacant' land around the remaining p-way is also modelled, a feature mostly ignored, have you ever seen, for instance, a yard scene where only one or two sidings remain the other 4, 8 or 10 lifted, a disused loco shed, platform faces without tracks alongside?

I'll have to get this thread back to the subject of Shirebrook! 

Great to hear from you Mark

Here's a photo to start.

 

image8.jpeg

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