SEEP motor switch problem

[petejones]

I wired a Gaugemaster SEEP point motor to a SPDT Mini-Toggle Switch (GM510), but the switch only moves the motor in one direction. Is this the correct switch for the job or have I done something wrong? 

 

Cheers

Pete

[Sol]

The toggle has to be  centre off with momentary action both sides  which you have , so  what happens if you reverse the wiring to the solenoid coils? That is reverse A & B ?

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Sol
error in coil tags fom C to B is the change

[Brian]

The GM510 switch is the correct one to use with a solenoid point motor.  It is a momentary or sprung to centre off type.

But do check that the switches lever springs back to the middle position when released from either direction.  It is very easy for a conventional locking toggle switch to get mixed up with a non locking type!

 

Feed power to the non locking switches middle tab.  Two wires from the outer tabs of the switch run directly to the Seep pads 'A' & 'B'.  Seep pad 'C' has a wire directly to the power feeds other connection.  Note; if using a CDU wire its Input pair of terminals directly to the supply, which is ideally 16 volts AC and then its Positive (+) output terminal to the switches middle tab.  The 'C' on the Seep then goes to the CDU negative (-) output terminal.  All as per the drawing above provided by Sol

[petejones]

20 hours ago, Sol said:

what happens if you reverse the wiring to the solenoid coils?

 

Nothing at all.

[Sol]

so only one coil moves ? have you checked for coil continuity using a multimeter in ohms mode?

[spikey]

Blimey!  I've just seen the price of a centre-off momentary SPDT switch from Gaugemaster!

 

But whatever, can we be assured that you have a wire from each outer terminal on the switch to the outer pads on the solenoid PCB, with the centre switch terminal going to one side of your power supply? And that the other side of that power supply goes to pad C on the solenoid?

 

Assuming that you've eliminated the possibility of a dry joint somewhere, the problem has to lie with either the switch itself or the solenoid.  With the wiring back how you had it originally, does anything change if you swop the two wires to the switch round?

 

And incidentally, is this setup powered by a CDU?

[Brian]

What power supply is being used?   

Have you wired a CDU in circuit?

Do you have any other Seeps that are know to be working? If so, swap them for the suspect one and see if it then works. 

 

What happens when the Seep PM? (BTW... Which Seep PM is it?) is taken off the point and left hanging in free air by the three operation wire?   Does the motor 'Pop' over and back with each switch movement?  If it does, then suspect the Seep is not positioned correctly on the baseboard/point.  Seep motors are notorious for the need to be installed absolutely in line with the points moving tie bar above and also not screwed down overly tight .

If the Seep fails to move when hanging in the air re check the soldering on Pads A, B & C   A & B go to the switches outer set of terminals. C goes back to the supply.  Supplies other output goes to the switches middle tab.

 

[Junctionmad]

My experience is that without a CDU to limit duration , it’s very easy to burn out a seep coil by holding the switch over too long , one coil may have failed 

 

Dave 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Junctionmad

[petejones]

Apologies for the delay in replying. Yes I am using a CDU (the one from GM).

 

I just wired up the same setup using Peco kit (turnout motor and CDU) and that worked fine, so it looks like I have a dodgy SEEP motor.

[Brian]

Its possible that its faulty with one coil open circuit.

But double check you're using pads A, B and C with C as the common return for both coils.  A & B  pads are at either outer ends of the motor and C is next to A.   Also look for the possibility of soldering issues on the pads (dry joint) or the burning off of one of the pads from the motors copper PCB track.

 

Can you answer the questions I ask previously too..  1) What power supply is being used - its output voltage and type - AC or DC output .  2) Does the Seep work when removed from the baseboard/point and is in free air.  If you provide answers to questions it really helps with a diagnosis. 

 

Seep motors are very power hungry and a good input volts to the CDU is needed, ideally a minimum of 16v AC.  Peco motors (PL10) are not quite so power hungry and tend not to suffer so much from poor alignment issues that Seep do! 

[petejones]

9 hours ago, Brian said:

1) What power supply is being used - its output voltage and type - AC or DC output . 

 

I'm using a Gaugemaster Combi, so it's 16/18V AC.

 

9 hours ago, Brian said:

2) Does the Seep work when removed from the baseboard/point and is in free air.

 

I've been trying it free from the baseboard.

 

I will try your suggestions later.

[Brian]

Hi

The GM Combi is a little limited in power output (available current) as the wall transformer is rated at just 1.1 Amp combined track (locos) and accessories. 

One thing to ensure is that you allow around 2 seconds between each point switch operation for the CDU to reach a fully recharged condition, i.e.  wait in the middle Off position before moving the switch to the next operating position 

 

Do you have any other transformer/power supply than can be used to feed the CDU input?  

 

Edit to add... Do ensure all wiring from CDU output to switch and switch to Seep and the return is in at least 16/0.2mm wire.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Brian