25 miles Carstairs to Edinburgh with no brakes?

[rab]

6 hours ago, david.hill64 said:

None. Wheels are chocked when stabled. 

I find that quite amusing that what to me

is quite an advanced piece of railway engineering

relies on chocks for braking

[keefer]

Always wondered why it was only the 40s and why it couldn't be fixed?

A widespread and serious enough problem to be specifically mentioned in the General/Sectional Appendix.

[roythebus]

On 29/05/2020 at 10:20, david.hill64 said:

Interesting report. I would have lost my wager that the continuity test hadn’t been done, but in mitigation it probably ought to be done when all other activities have been completed. 
 

I wonder if the conclusions will result in a change to the TSI to require sensible brake isolation cocks to be used. 

The report says that the On-Train computer showed a drop in train pipe pressure at about the time the crew said they had done a brake continuity test.  

 

My first thoughts when i heard of this incident was that something had been thrown up from the track and isolated the cocks or an inexperienced agency shunter had cocked up.

 

The reason for my thinking on debris hitting the isolating cock was because I was the 2ndman on the loco that had the incident at Darlington in the mid 1970s. My driver and I had prepped the loco at KX and put it on the train. We were dug out of our "liquid lunch" break at the BRSA for a quick interview.

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, david.hill64 said:

None. Wheels are chocked when stabled. 

 

10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Agre.  But they did, eventually, have scotches -  which were a lot more reliable than the handbrake (provided they were used  ).

There's the rub.

[martin_wynne]

And no brakes again. Report from RAIB today:

 

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safety-digest-062020-crofton-west-junction/signals-passed-at-danger-due-to-reduced-brake-performance-near-crofton-west-junction-west-yorkshire-7-may-2020

 

Martin.

[kevinlms]

32 minutes ago, martin_wynne said:

And no brakes again. Report from RAIB today:

 

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/safety-digest-062020-crofton-west-junction/signals-passed-at-danger-due-to-reduced-brake-performance-near-crofton-west-junction-west-yorkshire-7-may-2020

 

Martin.

The driver ought to have been suspicious upon finding others in the cab on his arrival. As a minimum asked if they had done anything while in possession of the loco, but still ought to have checked for himself.

[cunningduck]

6 hours ago, kevinlms said:

The driver ought to have been suspicious upon finding others in the cab on his arrival. As a minimum asked if they had done anything while in possession of the loco, but still ought to have checked for himself.

I think that’s very easy to say after the event, but maintaining a strong safety culture where employees question everything to guarantee safety is much harder. 

[caradoc]

I wonder why the Driver did not make an Emergency GSMR call which would have stopped other trains in the area ? 

 

[russ p]

The biggest think that needs addressing here is that ridiculous instruction to pull all the cords when leaving the train , if they must leave the train several hours after a brake continuity test at least if there was a cock closed the train would be difficult to move

[keefer]

Doesn't look particularly good on the 'trainer' either.

Your think he'd be hyper aware of anything he may do on the loco - especially as it was coupled to a train at the time - so that everything was returned to its proper condition once he was finished.

I can see the point if the training was confined to the loco, but once he started messing with the brake connection to the train, I'd have thought that was a no-no.

As usual, simple though it may seem, it is far from that. Several people had to do/not do something each, for the end result to happen.

Also it shows that the correct procedures may be in place but they're not much use if they're not followed properly.

[101]

There's seems to be so many questions to ask, an old hand manager (where are you Mike? ) would've had a field day at an enquiry about this one.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by 101

[Steadfast]

I don't understand why the need to pull every single string? The only place I've seen it done is a yard where the wagons are handed over to the customer and their internal user loco doesn't have air brake connections.

This does highlight the importance in doing a brake test as the last thing in train prep and that once it's done it is sacred and no one touches anything 'in between'. It also shows the importance of the driver checking the loco to wagon coupling and pipes. When I'm coupling up, I'm not offended to have a driver watching me, it's a second set of eyes. If a different driver relieves the train, many with have a quick check before getting on board. 

No one is above board, I think everyone has forgotten to drop a tap at least once before, only finding out when no air comes out for a brake test at the back! Usually when something distracts you, like a leaky tap or an awkward coupling. We've all done it and it's a helpful reminder of why we do a brake test!

 

Jo

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, keefer said:

Doesn't look particularly good on the 'trainer' either.

Your think he'd be hyper aware of anything he may do on the loco - especially as it was coupled to a train at the time - so that everything was returned to its proper condition once he was finished.

I can see the point if the training was confined to the loco, but once he started messing with the brake connection to the train, I'd have thought that was a no-no.

As usual, simple though it may seem, it is far from that. Several people had to do/not do something each, for the end result to happen.

Also it shows that the correct procedures may be in place but they're not much use if they're not followed properly.

As to regard the trainer, I've been on training courses (nothing to do with railways), where if the trainer turns his back or leaves the room, people on the course will fiddle with 'things'.

So if I was the regular driver and found some unexpected trainees in my work space, I'd be highly suspicious of practical jokers!

[russ p]

4 hours ago, kevinlms said:

As to regard the trainer, I've been on training courses (nothing to do with railways), where if the trainer turns his back or leaves the room, people on the course will fiddle with 'things'.

So if I was the regular driver and found some unexpected trainees in my work space, I'd be highly suspicious of practical jokers!

 

Not in this case one of the trainees is a very good friend of mine 

[kevinlms]

13 minutes ago, russ p said:

 

Not in this case one of the trainees is a very good friend of mine 

I'm sure most take their new job very seriously, but you only need one idiot to ruin it for everyone.

 

When I did my basic training for the phone provider, the trainer said we normally go and look at the QANTAS PABX next, but last week someone from another group, turned it off and it took half a day to get fully working again!

[roythebus]

On my EMU course in 1978 we went to Grove Park to learn the Kent Coast electric stock what the trainer had done to the train I can't remember, but it should not have been able to take power and move, but move it did! Somehow the depot shunt driver managed to reverse the unit into the shed with virtually no air in it. We were to say the least surprised.