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sir douglas

RC layout not RC loco

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29 minutes ago, sir douglas said:

 controllers starting at £50... no thanks

Tight *rse:jester:

 

 

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How much do you want to pay? You can buy a new Gaugemaster Combi for less than £50 but if you want wireless it is going to cost you more, up to £100

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True, you are talking 50 quid for a simple controller these days. 

 

The bluerail stuff does seem neat and not all that pricey, but it is pwm output so watch it with coreless motors .  It is however an off the shelf solution. 

 

Corbs and Nearholmers idea of chopping up a cheap RC car is a decent start , but again it will be pwm output and probably lower than 12V . Worth a punt if you get one cheap enough, but getting it to behave well as a train controller might need some electronics. 

 

That circuit of mine worked fine with a 27 MHz Acoms set back in the early 80s, I think there would be better stuff about now. 

 

I could dig out my circuit from the late 70s with a remote that talked to a base station with ultrasonic bits from a telly remote, but then you would really be laughing at my daftness....... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, sir douglas said:

 controllers starting at £50... no thanks

I agree. I am always intrigued by the willingness of railway modellers to empty their wallets for every new trinket.

 

The working parts for an Arduino and nRF24 wireless controller pair (Tx and Rx) would cost about £20 - less if you are prepared to buy parts from China. In the controllers I made the biggest part of the cost was the fancy plastic case (which is not included in the £20)

 

...R

Edited by Robin2

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35 minutes ago, Robin2 said:

I agree. I am always intrigued by the willingness of railway modellers to empty their wallets for every new trinket.

 

The working parts for an Arduino and nRF24 wireless controller pair (Tx and Rx) would cost about £20 - less if you are prepared to buy parts from China. In the controllers I made the biggest part of the cost was the fancy plastic case (which is not included in the £20)

 

...R

Just because you and I are prepared/capable to make things, it doesnt mean others are.

I am always amazed how some think everything should be constructed from scratch and look down on those that don't want to or don't have the skills to make things.

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we're getting a bit off topic now but while we're here. some people can do certain thing and others cant but at least give it a try first,  it doesnt matter if it doesnt work, paying someone else to do it for you is also good. i'm going to try this myself but all the electronics will be ready made bought second hand. i dont know how everything works but i know that it does and thats all that matters

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12 hours ago, melmerby said:

look down on those that don't want to or don't have the skills to make things.

Sorry. I got the impression from your "Tight *rse" comment that you were looking down on those who are reluctant to pay high prices for things 

 

...R

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Just seen what your proposing it’s easily doable,  all you do is connect the output from a speed controller aka an esc to the rails.

 

i did the same for g scale the only difference was I could use 24v instead if 12v. It worked really well and give me a cheap wireless throttle

 

I used rc plane stuff from hobbyking, just need a brushed esc, and one that can do full speed reverse, or a servo driving a dpdt switch to swap,polarity 

 

 

I only gave up on the idea as in the garden it’s better to go deadrail Andy fit the rc gear into the loco

 

dan

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thats something i'll have to watch out for,i hadnt thought about the reverse speed. what does esc mean?

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Esc stands for electronic speed controller. The Deltang receivers that I use have ESCs built in to them. Esc can either be single direction for aircraft, or reversible for aircraft or boats. 

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 Remote Control Systems (RCS) in Australia has re-introduced a 2.4Ghz radio control system for use with DC track powered layouts layouts.  https://www.rcs-rc.com/pages/trackside-r/c.

 

The antenna fits within the RCS transmitter case which is compact  quite compact.

 

I have used RCS transmitters and receivers for large scale on board battery powered RC locos for 7-8 years, their after sales service excellent. 

 

RCS currently use Deltang components which are produced in the UK.

 

Deltang http://www.deltang.co.uk/ produce transmitters and receivers are reasonably priced and suitable for use with a DC track powered layout. 

 

The RX65 receiver appears to have an adequate current rating for controlling a OO gauge loco.

 

I would recommend contacting Deltang directly to discuss your specific requirements.

Edited by John M

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The main Deltang UK supplier is Micron Radio Control

 

Micronradiocontrol.co.uk

 

If you have any queries I suggest you contact Micron.   They are very helpful.   Deltang is also usually very helpful as well but curently I believe is closed for holidays.

 

Frank

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I thought the entire point of RC was to eliminate the need to power the loco through the track with all its problems around poor running

The idea of having the power source 'onboard' was for smooth uninterrupted running, an onboard rc chip is in reality just a decoder.

It would also be possible for the chip to send back the power level of the battery and display it like a fuel gauge, so when the loco is running low on fuel it has to go to a fuelling point and refuel, or in this case recharge the battery via the rails, making operation more realistic.

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36 minutes ago, StuartM said:

I thought the entire point of RC was to eliminate the need to power the loco through the track with all its problems around poor running

The idea of having the power source 'onboard' was for smooth uninterrupted running, an onboard rc chip is in reality just a decoder.

It would also be possible for the chip to send back the power level of the battery and display it like a fuel gauge, so when the loco is running low on fuel it has to go to a fuelling point and refuel, or in this case recharge the battery via the rails, making operation more realistic.

That's pretty much what RC control is about but the OP has realised that you can also use it to replace a normal DC controller for simple layouts and have a 'free' radio control throttle.

 

For me a big plus point for RC is I have no layout wiring. Another is minimal rail cleaning, once or twice a year is enough. The downside is I have to keep those batteries charged although next generation RC gear should have auto battery charging

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I have used the Deltang RC system on my indoor G scale layout in exactly the way described for some years. Power from a smooth supply goes to the receiver and the output from the receiver is connected to the track. Works a treat. Having played with this in N gauge all I can say is make sure the voltage into the receiver is lower than 12 volts otherwise you can blow the pcbs inside your locos.  This is very useful when you have friends who aren't able to crawl under the layout to the operate from the middle. I use R C Trains for mine. https://rctrains.co.uk/index.htm

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I did have a somewhat crude idea for converting a conventional train controller (such the the HM2000) to remote control, (in typically mechanical engineer fashion), it would have been an RC circuit, i.e. transmitter, receiver, and a couple of servos to switch the direction, and control the speed. one set for each line. It would have been crude in respect of the servos would be driving an arm in place of the pot/thumbwheel, and a solenoid switching the polarity switch on the panel, but would then mean I have made no changes to the controller.

 

Patent in process #whistle ;);) 

Edited by Paul_sterling

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You wouldn’t be the first to use servos attached To  a normal controller,

 

i havent done it personally,  but i have heard of it being done before.

 

the main advantage of doing it, apart from the wireless radios control, is the output is pure dc,  as electronic speed controllers normally put out PWM aka pulse width modulation.

 

It means you can easily run any dc or dcc fitted loco, and have a wireless controller,  

 

DAN

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I posted this in th Hornby thread last week but it may be more relevant here.

 

"Intrigued by the DC control...

Yesterday was my first experience with Lego trains. 

The 8 year old operator was delighted and demonstrated a working Eurostar with sounds and whistles on his phone app and used a tiny game controller to wirelessly operate the battery-powered train. Running was super smooth and reliable.

No wiring needed. 

This is the way to go for model railways. 

Hornbys new DC system is intriguing but you still need the wires to the track. Surely the future is radio control and cut out the wires altogether. 

Diesel locos could have one driven bogie and the batteries could sit above the other bogie."

 

Reading other posts on this topic, the alphabet soup is a real turn off but I think there is real market potential if a major supplier could be tempted. 

 

 

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what you've asked for is easy to do, all you need is a transmitter, a receiver a power supply and a f/reverse speed controller. Also most modern controllers have a "models" feature which allows the controller to only drive one of the many "models" (tracks) you have via another receiver and speed controller. You could use this feature to power certain sections of the railway or if the mood takes you, driving the loco with it's own battery.

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On 12 Jan 2020 at 11:48, rdr said:

what you've asked for is easy to do, all you need is a transmitter, a receiver a power supply and a f/reverse speed controller. Also most modern controllers have a "models" feature which allows the controller to only drive one of the many "models" (tracks) you have via another receiver and speed controller. You could use this feature to power certain sections of the railway or if the mood takes you, driving the loco with it's own battery.

Am I missing something?

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10 hours ago, Railpassion said:

Am I missing something?

Perhaps. This Thread is specifically about RC Layout not RC Loco yet your interest seems to be in RC Locos with battery power 

 

...R

Edited by Robin2

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11 hours ago, Railpassion said:

Am I missing something?

 

1 hour ago, Robin2 said:

Perhaps. This Thread is specifically about RC Layout not RC Loco yet your interest seems to be in RC Locos with battery power 

 

The Hornby HM6000 is just wireless control of ordinary DC powered track.

i.e. wireless DC controller.

It's RC layout control, not RC control of locos.

 

.

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47 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

The Hornby HM6000 is just wireless control of ordinary DC powered track.

i.e. wireless DC controller.

It's RC layout control, not RC control of locos.

Indeed. But @Raipassion is interested in doing away with track power

 

On 12/01/2020 at 11:30, Railpassion said:

No wiring needed. 

This is the way to go for model railways. 

Hornbys new DC system is intriguing but you still need the wires to the track. Surely the future is radio control and cut out the wires altogether. 

Diesel locos could have one driven bogie and the batteries could sit above the other bogie."

 

...R

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16 hours ago, Railpassion said:

Am I missing something?

i'm referring to the thread content not your post, but as you have said there is a need for a better control system.

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