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Hattons Dave

'Genesis' 4 & 6 wheel coaches in OO Gauge - New Announcement

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As I believe these are supposed to be GENERIC coaches, equally suitable / unsuitable for all, I suspect a worrying developing emphasis on trying to match the features to the coaching stock of the South and South Midlands of England. There is a good case for the band of panels around the waist to be considerably taller, to bring the look more closely into line with the style of other companies, such as GNR or MS&LR (albeit with the wrong kind of beading on the lower panels) or the LDECR, as seen very well in the image in the seventh post (by Jonny 777) on this page:

Unhelpfully,  not the image displayed in this automatically created link.......

Edited by gr.king
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35 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Pack wagons rather than chariots would be more common.

I have no idea about the body style but the gauge would have been the same as we use today.

Bernard

 

 

Ah, goods the bread and butter, passengers the icing on the cake, as ever. But this is a thread for passenger vehicles. Chariots are out of court - 2-wheelers; it's 4- and 6-wheelers here!

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6 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Chariots are out of court 

And, if equipped with the optional scythes, out of gauge, too.

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5 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

And, if equipped with the optional scythes, out of gauge, too.

 

... perhaps we need to move to the "Driving standards" thread?

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On ‎08‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 22:04, Nearholmer said:

The SR did a better job: they took the centre axles off, and used them as LWB four-wheeler PP sets.

 

I don’t know about other SR constituents, but the Brighton finished off its 6-wheeler fleet by putting pairs of bodies onto bogie underframes, to make three car sets, brake third-composite-brake third, which ran well into SR days

 

Do you happen to know when they were converted from PP sets to beach huts and bonfires? @Graham_Muz suggested that they didn't last well into the 30s on the mainland (Hattons' only SR example is for IoW in the 30s), and SEMGonline doesn't show them.

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2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

And, if equipped with the optional scythes, out of gauge, too.

But if you narrowed the gauge by 2.33mm there would be room to fit the blades.

Bernard

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3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

And, if equipped with the optional scythes, out of gauge, too.

Perhaps that's why they didn't have lineside forests in those days !!?!

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Very good move to have the brake third with the three compartments aligned with exactly half a coach, Dave, it will allow coach bashers to produce six compartment thirds quite easily. The GER, LSWR, and Irish GS&WR come to mind.

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7 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

That's VERY pre-grouping ! .................................. anyone know anything about panelling styles on chariots ?

 

Judging by this, round-top panelling not unremeniscent of Metropolitan stock, or early Midland pullmans.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_horse_in_Britain#/media/File:Anglo-Saxon_Chariot_10th_century.jpg

 

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Oh, and Dave is effectively now working as CME / Chief Draughtsman to a railway of roughly the period 1880 to 1900 that that never existed. (Hattonshire Union Railway?)

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4 minutes ago, BackRoomBoffin said:

 

Judging by this, round-top panelling not unremeniscent of Metropolitan stock, or early Midland pullmans.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_horse_in_Britain#/media/File:Anglo-Saxon_Chariot_10th_century.jpg

 

 

Avoid scaling from a drawing; always rely on marked dimensions.

 

Are those Mansell wheels?

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They are Mansell wheels, Stephen, and as I previously remarked, they should be a standard fitting, forget about options on the wheels.

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7 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Having read it a few times, my reaction to Compound's 'long post':

 

- The lav windows would be frosted, but there would not be droplights.

 

- I feel the windows in the luggage doors on the centre luggage compo would probably have droplights (as per the Brake 3rd). Admittedly, this is on the cusp of overlapping eras, but droplights on luggage doors can be seen on an LA9-style U20 as early as 1885, as per melmerby's post. (Question: when did bars/grilles started to be fitted to luggage/brake doors?)

 

- I suggest duckets should be non-mirrored (unless the ducket is on the vehicle centreline, in which case the guard's doors should not be mirrored).
 

 

Not a criticism at all but just a comment that these preferences show @Miss Prism's Great Western interests - absolutely nothing wrong with that. My position in favour of droplights for lavatory windows and blank luggage doors (except where also a guard's compartment) reflects Midland (and North Eastern) practice. The Midland didn't do duckets at this period, except on the 25' 4-wheeled full brakes. Just goes to show how hard it is to be "typical".

Edited by Compound2632
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The soon to be published "Hattons Illustrated  Guide to Pre-grouping 4/6 Wheel Coach Detail Variations" is going to be a huge commercial success. ;)

 

Tim

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You ain't seen nuffin' yet...

 

Guide to panelling dimensions is out to review.

Edited by Compound2632
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Excellent work Hattons Dave. Very much appreciated. Thanks.

 

Shame we have to wait so long to see them in the flesh :(

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

You ain't seen nuffin' yet...

 

Guide to panelling dimensions is out to review.

 

Just cleared the kids out of the house and poured myself a large glass of Ozzy red; you will have my undivided attention ...  

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not a criticism at all but just a comment that these preferences show @Miss Prism's Great Western interests - absolutely nothing wrong with that. My position in favour of droplights for lavatory windows and blank luggage doors (except where also a guard's compartment) reflects Midland (and North Eastern) practice. The Midland didn't do duckets at this period, except on the 25' 4-wheeled full brakes. Just goes to show how hard it is to be "typical".

It is inevitable that those providing proposed dimensions to Hatton's will do so based upon their own knowledge and preferences. Whether the eventual design frozen by Hatton's is more or less of a camel than their original design will only be obvious to a few. 

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36 minutes ago, Ronny said:

 Shame we have to wait so long to see them in the flesh

 

What corners do you want them to cut in the product development process? 

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12 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

It is inevitable that those providing proposed dimensions to Hatton's will do so based upon their own knowledge and preferences. Whether the eventual design frozen by Hatton's is more or less of a camel than their original design will only be obvious to a few. 

 

Well, I'm trying to take a catholic approach, having fed through on LB&SCR, GWR, LWSR and NER measurements!  Others are collecting data for these and other companies, so I do feel that reasonable coverage is being provided to Hattons.  Compound is working hard on this with a view to being typically prototypical; rest assured, no one is pushing a particular company's agenda here.

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I'm mainly watching the assembled throng with awe, but with regard to Saxon chariot styles, it's worth pointing out that the Saxon kingdoms can be divided in the early kingdoms, the so-called Heptarchy, the period of VIking invasion, and the unified kingdom of England (ie pre-grouping, post-grouping, wartime, and nationalisation). So the 10th century drawing I posted is OT, as it's post-grouping (I think).

I'll get me coat.

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1 minute ago, BackRoomBoffin said:

I'm mainly watching the assembled throng with awe, but with regard to Saxon chariot styles, it's worth pointing out that the Saxon kingdoms can be divided in the early kingdoms, the so-called Heptarchy, the period of VIking invasion, and the unified kingdom of England (ie pre-grouping, post-grouping, wartime, and nationalisation). So the 10th century drawing I posted is OT, as it's post-grouping (I think).

I'll get me coat.

 

But post-grouping is off-topic, I'm afraid. 

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4 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

 

H4-6W-T3_v4_dimensions-01.jpg.f55d630ac60c812520614ba134d9c9dd.jpg

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Take out one compartment and turn the luggage and guard's end around and you have S&DJR's 4 wheeled No. 33 and I wouldn't have to carve away the big GWR grab handles as I should have done when Triang clerestory bashing all those years ago! The current end pair of panels would be a bit too wide, but if the Triangs were good enough....

Edited by phil_sutters
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