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BMacdermott

Q&A - The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019

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Hello everyone

 

In answer to Captain Kernow's posting a while back...

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

 

Top 50 Items Announced from The 00 Wishlist Poll Listings: 2012 to 15 October 2019

 

This may not be a complete list. Some items have been announced and then withdrawn. Some have yet to come to market.

 

GWR Locos

14xx/58xx

43xx Churchward

43xx Collett

47xx

Dean Goods

Railmotor

64xx

 

SR Locos

SECR D Class

Class 700

S15

H

P

Adams Radial

A1X Terrier

Lord Nelson

Marsh Atlantic

Merchant Navy – Air Smooth

USA Tank

 

LMS Locos

None from The Top 50

 

LNER Locos

D16 Claud

J15

K1

N7

Q6

LNER P2

 

BR Standard Locos

None from The Top 50

 

Diesel & Electric Locos + DMUs & EMUs

Class 43

Class 117/118

Class 121

Class 156

Class 71

Class 87

Class 90

Class 91

 

PCCS & NPCCS

Collett Gangwayed Coaches

Maunsell RF

Mk1 BSO

Mk1 FO

Mk3 HST Stock

Mk3 a/b Hauled Stock

BR 4-wheel CCT

Mk1 TPO

Mk2d/e/f Air Con Stock

 

Freight

SR Cattle Wagon

Warwell

LSWR Brake Van

Containers 1960s

Container Flats FFA/FGA

SECR Wagon

BR Grain Wagon

 

General Railway Service

SR Breakdown Crane

BR Salmon

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The only thing I'd like to see someone get round to sorting is some decent WCML catenary more than just single track masts, electric tracks go from A to B in most cases and even allowing for layouts which in alot of cases are loops, alot also have sidings or terminus stations, therefore a gantry to terminate the overhead wire into - or in the case of the marshalling yard where multiple tracks are ended in parallel, see Crewe Basford Hall or Mossend down sidings for example, there are many many others, yes, folk can scratch build these, but at the same time, we have had the PECO and Dapol single masts out for sometime, and the advancement of OLE around the country is growing all the time with the GWML and MML electrification projects, and not to forget the number of electric locos coming on to the model railway market, in the form of Hornby's Class 87, Bachmann's Class 90, the forthcoming Accurascales Class 92 and the Heljan Class 86, please oh PLEASE can we have some proper multiple track masts done - with the droppers compatible for PECO if possible - and if possible some of the accessory gantries like the terminating track gantry.

Thank you, Kat

Johnson Street IEMD

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Hello DBC

 

I'm sorry we can't help you there, but we fully understand the predicament. We used to run an 'Infrastructure' category but had to give it up due to the sheer complexity of the subject.

 

I have counted six different types of catenary masts in the stretch of WCML that runs alongside the M1 near Watford Gap.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

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On 11/10/2019 at 08:35, BMacdermott said:

Q&A – The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019

 

The 00 Poll Team is delighted to say that The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019 will run from about 0900 Monday 14 October to midnight on Saturday 2 November.

 

We thought you might like to have some questions answered before you take part.

 

What is the purpose of The Poll?  

To provide railway modellers and collectors with an easy and informed way of indicating to manufacturers and commissioners of 00 ready-to-run models which models they would realistically buy if made at some time in the future from all-new tooling (excluding models announced or made since 1 January 2005).

 

The ‘firm cut-off date and all new tooling’ basis gives us an agreed date of items for listing and precludes us making ‘quality judgments’. If voters feel that any pre-2005 model is fine – and many are – there is no need to vote for them.

 

We can’t expect makers to scrap their tooling and make a totally new model that might only be marginally better!

 

Who has been involved in putting The Poll and Guide together?

The 9-man Poll Team has thoroughly reviewed every item in The Poll and every word and link of The Guide.

 

For comments and help with various matters, we would like to thank Nick Evans. Our thanks also to The Bluebell Railway Archive for some links to photos (via Team member, Glen Woods).

 

Our grateful thanks also go to Andy York of RMweb for yet again preparing the computerised voting aspects. Andy neither has direct input to, nor ‘influence’ on, the actual content, but there wouldn’t be a Poll without him!

 

Are you ‘affiliated’ to any manufacturer or do you get paid?

No! The 9-man Poll Team is totally independent, but we are most grateful for the support with space and publicity we receive from RMweb as well as numerous magazines, clubs and retailers.

 

What’s new for The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019?

We have deleted the Industrial and Underground categories to give us more space for ‘core content’ and we now list many more items that voters have requested. We have also introduced a new Category 21 – Your Suggestions for Re-makes of Post-2005 00 Models. The ‘Top 3’ of each type will be reported in the Results. They will then be listed in the 2020 Poll – subject to them polling more votes than the overall-lowest voted item of 2019.

 

And…we have a fresh new look for the voting pages! 

 

Which companies/organisations do you see as manufacturers or commissioners of models?

Accurascale, Bachmann, BRM, C Rail Intermodal, Cavalex Models, Dapol, Drax Power Station, Heljan, Flangeway, Hattons, Hornby, Hornby Magazine, Ian Allan, Invicta, Kernow Model Centre, KR Models, Model Rail, National Railway Museum, Olivia’s Trains, Oxford Rail, Peco, RMweb, Rail Exclusives, Rail Express Modeller, Rails of Sheffield, Rapido, Real Track, RevolutioN Trains (00 models), STEAM Museum (Swindon) and TMC.

 

What is included in or specifically excluded from The Poll?

Our ‘core content’ is a wide selection of locos and rolling stock of British Railways, its predecessors and successors. Many items of a ‘heritage/preserved’ nature are included by default.

 

We could easily show over 30,000 items – there are over 450 types of GWR & Constituents coaches and 250 LMS wagons – so we have to ‘draw a line’ somewhere!

 

We specifically exclude any item that has been announced for production from all new tooling or actually produced from all new tooling since 1 January 2005.

 

Other examples excluded are: Channel Tunnel (apart from Eurostar); industrial, dock and military systems; airport inter-terminal systems; broad and narrow gauge; ‘Thomas the Tank’; and tram, tram-train, metro and underground systems. Additionally, we exclude brand new ‘full size’ locos, rolling stock, DMUs or EMUs unless they are at least on test in the UK.

 

What is the running order of categories for the 2019 Poll?

 

Each category below is a hyperlink to the relevant Guide page.

 

1    Locos: GWR & Constituents

2    Locos: SR & Constituents

3    Locos: LMS & Constituents

4    Locos: LNER & Constituents

5    Locos: BR Standard, WD & USATC

6    Locos: Gas Turbine, Diesel & Electric

 

7    Railbuses, Railcars & DMUs

8    EMUs

 

9   Coaches: GWR & Constituents

10  Coaches: SR & Constituents

11  Coaches: LMS & Constituents

12 Coaches: LNER & Constituents

13 Coaches: BR & Successors + Pullman Cars

14 Coaching Stock: Non-passenger-carrying

 

15  Freight Stock: Pre-1923 RCH & GWR + Pre-Grouping Railway Company Designs

16 Freight Stock: 1923-1947 Big Four Designs & Others inc some BR Descendants

17 Freight Stock: 1948-1963

18 Freight Stock: 1964-Current

 

19 General Railway Service Stock: Departmental (Steam Era)

20  General Railway Service Stock: On-Track Plant (Post-Steam Era)

 

21  Your Suggestions for Re-makes of Post-2005 00 Models

 

We now have four freight categories instead of three. Freight Stock: Pre-1923 and Freight Stock: 1923-1947 cover not only designs up to 1947 but also vehicles perpetuated to those or very similar designs by BR. So, if you want freight stock for the main BR steam era, please look at these before the 1948-1963 category. General Railway Service Stock has been split to more accurately reflect ‘old’ and ‘modern’ stock.

 

What will voters find when they first ‘click’ into the The Poll?

 

Voters will be taken to the opening category, it may be heplpful to read the Jargon Buster if you are unfamiliar with any nomenclature.

 

You will then find the 21 voting categories. If you are only interested in, say, EMUs, all you need do is go to that category, click the items you would realistically wish to buy in the future, scroll to the end and hit ‘submit’.

 

If you are an experienced modeller who knows what you want, you can ‘dive straight in’ via the links. However, whilst there is no actual need to access The Guide, we strongly urge you to do so, as we give you a summary of all the items in each category. You will be able to get an overall feel for what you want to vote for before going into the voting section – especially the Freight Stock categories.

 

The Poll Team has created The Guide in the same running order as you will find it in the voting categories. Each item has had some text written about it to help you put it in context. It is not designed as a ‘definitive history’.

 

Where possible, we have provided ‘links’ to further detail – but these should only be treated as a ‘general reference’. Locos and rolling stock often changed in appearance slightly over the years. All ‘links’ have been given in good faith and were working at the time of publication but we leave it to the discretion of voters whether they click on any. We cannot take responsibility for the information on those links or any subsequent impact on pollsters’ computers.

 

The Guide is particularly valuable if you are a less-experienced modeller who doesn’t know – for example –  the build-dates of the various BR Mk1 catering vehicles, or whether one particular 0-6-0 loco will suit your needs better than others. As noted above, The Guide is presented in exactly the same order as the votable items; you can print it out and use it as ‘a pre-planner’.

 

Why do you specify BR running numbers? Does this mean we can’t express a Pre-Grouping wish?

The addition of BR running numbers was made some years ago at the request of voters and we have had notes of appreciation for that. They are there simply to assist identification. It is impossible for us to take into account the vast array of variations within classes over the years.

 

The manufacturers will ‘get as much as they can’ from any model via the use of slip tools and so on. It seems to make commercial sense for them to produce models which span a number of decades and which appeal to a wide audience.

 

Do you say if kits are available?

We found that it takes an inordinate amount of time to keep that information up to date, so we haven’t since 2018. However, you will find a link in each category to take you to kit makers and other suppliers. This is – after all – a Poll for ready-to-run items!

 

Can voters vote for livery options?

We investigated the possibility, but the subject is so vast that it is impractical for us. However, companies such as Kernow, Oxford Rail and RevolutioN Trains announce models and seek customer views on liveries.

 

Is there any limit to what voters can vote for?

You can vote for whatever you would realistically wish to buy at any time in the future. Please note that The Team reserves the right to delete without query any entry that it feels is not based on that premise. Please note: Only one entry per voter is permitted.

 

Do you ask voters for email addresses to enter The Poll?

No. Entry in The 00 Poll will not generate any email correspondence whatsoever. We will only contact you in response to valid queries as below.

 

Can voters print out what they have voted for?

Yes, but please note that you will get the entire list including what you haven’t voted for. We’re sorry but we are unable to change that. A way round is to ‘pre-plan’ your voting:

·          Go to The Guide

·          Print out the summaries of the categories you want to vote in

·          Highlight the items you want to vote for

·          Use this to help ensure you don’t miss anything when you actually vote.

 

What if voters have any technical difficulties while voting?

Please email Andy York: [email protected]

 

What if voters have: difficulty accessing The Guide; have comments on it; have any suggestions for 2020; or need impartial help or advice?

Please email The 00 Poll Team: [email protected] An acknowledgment will normally be sent within 24 hours, but a full answer might take a few days. We will also answer queries on RMweb.

 

When will the results be published?

We aim to publish the results by early November. Many printed magazines will carry an abridged summary.

 

Does The Poll Team expect ‘the top items’ to be made?

We would ask voters to appreciate that manufacturers lay plans anything up to three years or more in advance and have to continually balance requests against their current models and proposed portfolios – as well as those of their competitors. To us, it’s a hobby; to them, it’s a commercial decision.

 

We make no claim that models have been or will be made specifically as a result of The Poll. The makers and commissioners certainly take other market research data into account and do not rely on our results alone. New announcements have been fairly slow in coming, but you may find it interesting to see how those 00 models announced since the 2018 Poll fared up to early October 2019 below – notice the bias towards the upper half of The Poll content.

·          3           Top 50                       

·          6           High Polling (exc Top 50)                                   

·          6           Middle Polling (and two of these were higher than the overall half-way mark)

·          3           Low Polling

 

We hope you enjoy taking part in The 00 Wishlist Poll 2019! We are hoping to get a record number of voters this year, but we can’t do that without your help. Please drop an email about The Poll to your friends – they might vote for the items you want! Thanks!

 

The Poll Team

 

Neil Burgess, Robert Carroll, Chris Knowles-Thomas, John Lewis, Jeff Lynn, Brian Macdermott, Nick Stanbury, Ian Taylor and Glen Woods

 

Link to OO Wishlist Poll 2019

 

2. Poll A4 Poster 2019.pdf 68.89 kB · 99 downloads 3. Poll A5 Mini-poster 2019.pdf 72.17 kB · 28 downloads

 

I guess no one like LT stuff anymore!!

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Hello Dasatcopthorne

 

We have explained our reasons for the deletion of Underground (and Industrial) in the past. Our Guide notes were offered 'free, gratis and for nothing' to anyone who wished to run those subjects...so far, no takers.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

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Brian's 'Top 50 Items Announced from The 00 Wishlist Poll Listings: 2012 to 15 October 2019' listing above is interesting, and reinforces, for me, the general principle (there are exceptions of course, e.g. Heljan 47xx and Hornby SR 700) that if your obscure object of desire isn't out there and scannable, the chances of getting it in RTR are very small. however many votes it gets.
 

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Hello Miss Prism

 

Agreed that the makers will always make what they think will turn a profit. All we can hope is that our results match some of theirs.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

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My wish for a SECR D Class came true about 24 hours after voting! Powerful stuff this poll! ;)

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I've voted - but when I find myself voting for dock tanks, Hardwicke , the Spinner and push-pull trailers I realise just how far the list of subjects has been picked clean in the last 15 years. LNER locos are almost the only area where there are plenty of serious candidates left. As a long standing modern image modeller I voted for 1 DMU (114 - which I don't expect to see) no BR locos and a couple of short NPCCS. That tells a story

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I still personally think there are some cracking models out there that would garner plenty of demand personally that at first would seem obscure, say for example Drummonds bug. I personally think this would be due to its size and charm, the number of schemes it could carry (LSWR, SR/LSWR hybrid, SR and a fictional BR livery for crazies like me!), it's exotic and quaint and finally, it could be produced cheaply and simply due to the size and lack of requirement for a powerful motor due to the nature of its duties. Once again, the lack of LMS autocoaches baffles me, and while the bug is more a personal choice based strongly off of the W4 and it's success, they certainly have a demand as shown by the sheer number of butchered Ratio kits for non-corridor P1's! I think the problem is really just trying to meet a market - the same conclusion everyone and their traction engine have come to! I'd love to see a Riddles 2MTT (which may have just been undermined by the new Bachman Ivatt version sadly), or a Stanier 3P tank, or The Bug, but while I feel they'd all have an audience it becomes a question of how big, especially at current costs. 

 

Franky, and with no disrespect to the RMweb team, I think that it would've been nice to have a 'discount models' vote, similar to the 'post-2005 models' vote. Something along the lines of what would we like to see as a cheap engine, or indeed if people would like simpler Railroad like types alongside the main range.  I can imagine it's probably not done currently since the cheaper model would probably just undermine the more expensive sister in many cases, and it's additional work and adds cost. The level of detail nowadays is stunning, but there are plenty of people who wouldn't mind sacrificing some of that for a more affordable option. 

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1 hour ago, Philip Jackson said:

did I miss the vote for a prototype HST (or HSDT)?

It's sort of been announced so I guess it wouldn't be included.

 

Locomotion with Rapido have a plan for one subject to conditions being right, I would expect no-one else will touch it until they give up the idea.

 

In N it's at EP with Dapol.

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8 hours ago, SteamedLyons said:

Franky, and with no disrespect to the RMweb team, I think that it would've been nice to have a 'discount models' vote, similar to the 'post-2005 models' vote. Something along the lines of what would we like to see as a cheap engine, or indeed if people would like simpler Railroad like types alongside the main range.  I can imagine it's probably not done currently since the cheaper model would probably just undermine the more expensive sister in many cases, and it's additional work and adds cost. The level of detail nowadays is stunning, but there are plenty of people who wouldn't mind sacrificing some of that for a more affordable option. 

 

Hello SteamedLyons

 

Thanks for writing with the suggestion. 

 

I will put the idea on the 2020 Agenda for you but I have to say in advance that we have tried various other categories in the past but have rationalised back to where we are now. We have clearly stated that the Post-2005 category is 'experimental' this year and will be subject to review when we have the results.

 

We do our best to consider all ideas but our overall aim is to keep matters as simple as possible.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

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18 hours ago, Ravenser said:

... when I find myself voting for dock tanks, Hardwicke , the Spinner and push-pull trailers I realise just how far the list of subjects has been picked clean in the last 15 years. LNER locos are almost the only area where there are plenty of serious candidates left...

'Tis interesting to compare what is now available/announced RTR in OO steam locos from the 20 year period 1999 to present, with what the various kit ranges provided 1960 - 1980. Most of these have been picked off or announced, but there are holes and some of them are for fair size classes which lasted into the BR late crest period. No Fowler 7F, LTSR Whitelegg tank, L&Y 0-6-0, Caley 0-4-4T, Fowler/Stanier 2-6-2T. That covers most of LMR and ex LMS ScR territory...

 

8 hours ago, BMacdermott said:

...We have clearly stated that the Post-2005 category is 'experimental' this year and will be subject to review when we have the results...

I will be interested in seeing this result. Will it be a chaotic splatter, identifying nearly every single model  

made since 2005 to present as requiring improvement (don't bother with that again!) or home in on just a few flawed attempts?

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15 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

I will be interested in seeing this result. Will it be a chaotic splatter, identifying nearly every single model  

made since 2005 to present as requiring improvement (don't bother with that again!) or home in on just a few flawed attempts?

 

Hello 34

 

You'll have to wait for the results for that. As we said, it is 'experimental' and will be reviewed. 

 

We use 2005 as our cut-off date to partly preclude us making 'quality judgments'. We are giving voters the chance this year to see how post-2005 suggestions fare.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

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Thank you Brian and the team for not only a well arranged set of lists (particularly for wagons and NPCCS) but also a very clear form on which to 'vote'.  This year I have decided to go comprehensively for pauperdom,  or perhaps cast the net wide in the faint hope that I will get at least one of the items I have voted for.

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Hello Mike

 

Many thanks.

 

The lists are compiled by The Team, but Andy York gets the credit for the 'new style' which we think is really easy to use. This also enables me to watch votes as they come in.

 

(Please note that Andy works closely with us but is not a member of The Team per se. He has no 'influence' on the list contents.)

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

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Just finished filling out the form. I honestly really look forward to the wish list as it shows how much of a broad church we really have. Wonder where the U class will

come though as it’s the only large class of SR locomotive that hasn’t been done. Everything is under 20 class members. 
 

big james 

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I hope it's OK to insert just a quick thank you to the team for the incredible amount of work that goes in. I'm not currently wanting to invest in anything new - so am not voting, in accordance with the guidelines - but would still like to show my appreciation for their investment of time, energy and expertise, all of which helps keep the hobby healthy and supports the relationship between modellers and manufacturers that I believe we all benefit from, whether we're in a position to buy new models or not. Thank you.

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3 hours ago, Big James said:

Just finished filling out the form. I honestly really look forward to the wish list as it shows how much of a broad church we really have. Wonder where the U class will

come though as it’s the only large class of SR locomotive that hasn’t been done. Everything is under 20 class members. 
 

big james 

 

I have my fingers crossed again, hoping it will finally get picked up and produced.

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There are many very tempting items in this list. With a few exceptions - chiefly LMS rolling stock - I have ruthlessly ignored anything built after c. 1902. But I have so many caveats: I would buy any of the Dean 0-6-0 tank engines if they were issued in their original saddle tank form; I would buy pre-grouping goods rolling stock of various companies if the prototypes were of 19th century origin. That makes the LNWR engines particularly attractive, as they were not subjected to much rebuilding, apart from Belpaire boilers on some Cauliflowers. I'd like my J21 as a two-cylinder compound C in T.W. Worsdell livery, please! 

 

I would jump at the chance of a M&GN Class C in original condition, since it is in fact nothing other than a Midland Johnson 1808 / 2581 Class painted yellow! Making a 115 Class spinner that would go round 2nd radius curves would be an interesting challenge for the designer - there's not much room for the bogie to swing between those deep outside frames. No. 117 of this class was recorded by Charles Rous-Marten at 90 mph running down to Bedford - the highest authenticated speed recorded with a service train in the 19th century, tying with an engine not on the wishlist that attained its 90 mph on test.

 

I have resisted the blandishments of those utterly seductive Robinson engines - if one was produced, I would no doubt be very, very, tempted but I have not succumbed to the charms of the various SECR engines that have been produced. 

 

I'm rather hoping that no more than one of my selected engines or three or four of my selected items of rolling stock is announced in the coming year - my wallet really couldn't stand my bluff being called. But I imagine my preferences are somewhat eccentric, so I'm probably safe.

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Brian, Wishlist poll team,

 

could  you please change the link in the preamble section 9 GWR coach under 4/6 wheelers to http://www.penrhos.me.uk/CoachesIntro.shtml.  You could also note that my website now covers bogie clerestory coaches and all GWR coaches up to 1904.

 

thanks

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Many thanks Penrhos1920

 

I'm sorry to say it's too late to change anything this year but rest assured that it has already been amended for 2020.

 

That may sound 'a bit silly' but once we have 'gone live' that is it until next time. If we changed things during the currency of The Poll, we would get complaints and confusion. Two models have been announced since the data was 'set in concrete'. If we removed them, the results would be skewed.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

The link to Lee Marsh's 7 mm GWR clerestories is broken. This works: https://www.leemarshmodelco.com/collections/models-ready-to-ship/brass-rtr-gwr-coaches

 

 

Hello Compound2632

 

Thanks for this. We will amend for 2020. 

 

I have appended an extract from The Q&A to explain.

 

Brian (on behalf of The 00 Wishlist Poll Team)

 

Extract from Q&A

Where possible, we have provided ‘links’ to further detail – but these should only be treated as a ‘general reference’. Locos and rolling stock often changed in appearance slightly over the years. All ‘links’ have been given in good faith and were working at the time of publication but we leave it to the discretion of voters whether they click on any. We cannot take responsibility for the information on those links or any subsequent impact on pollsters’ computers.

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