60015 Hornby have done it again

[cravensdmufan]

3 hours ago, Simon Bendall said:

 

I think its the only accurate one in terms of the triple grey shades but the logo is wrong, more upside down Metals than Petroleum, easy enough to fix though.  Its certainly my go to for triple grey 60s but they aren't easy to find these days.

That's interesting - shocking to know that of all the triple grey releases only one had accurate triple grey colours and even that had an iffy logo.

 

Hornby produces a superb class 60 - quite possibly still one of the best diesels out there - but mess up liveries with every release.

 

Words fail me.

[YesTor]

On 19/11/2019 at 18:56, 66738 said:

Is it me or does the dark grey look too dark? From memory they have previously done this with a class 56 I think?

66738

 

The upper body dark grey band does indeed look too dark, similar to the last three releases of triple-grey 60s.  Quite likely that the roof is wrong too, although at least it isn't black as it was on the coal sector 60, 'Quinag'.  Still, only 12 or so years to produce a construction-liveried 60 and they come forward with this.  I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry...        

 

At £160 a pop for something with incorrect shades and logos they can keep 'em.  Looking on the bright side though, it may well mean a fair old bunch of cheap 60s being off-loaded come SALE time, in a few months or so...    

 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by YesTor

[stationroad]

What a shocker. In addition, the number looks a little low - it's on top of the arrows, and the repeater stripes creep into the upper grey. 

 

There is a small vent underneath the cabside windows. With weathering this gets more pronounced, but clean photos of the prototype show it as grey.  Hornby have painted it black on recent 60s, but only on one side here. 

 

This is the first time I have cancelled a pre-order. It's not worth £160 if it also requires touching up. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by stationroad

[philiprporter]

What puzzles me is that the shades of grey and the location of the logo look more or less correct on the box artwork. Is the box artwork a photo of a real model or is it computer generated? 

[stationroad]

5 minutes ago, philiprporter said:

What puzzles me is that the shades of grey and the location of the logo look more or less correct on the box artwork. Is the box artwork a photo of a real model or is it computer generated? 

 

the website artwork for 60070 and 60015 is very similar (look at were the pipes intersect each other, or the smudges on the windows). It's likely the same photo that has had the computer artwork added. 

[adb968008]

This is how BR Specified it in January 1990 on their official livery specification sheets..

 

 

here's a brand new 60058 John Howard in Manchester Victoria, and it looks just like all the others to me...

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by adb968008

[jonny777]

Just remove the logo transfer altogether, renumber to 60017 and there you have it.  

 

 

[adb968008]

1 minute ago, jonny777 said:

Just remove the logo transfer altogether, renumber to 60017 and there you have it.  

 

 

if they did that I suspect many would be happy... you can renumber / do it any way you like including post privatisation ones too..

[Legend]

Given all the information out there, most definitively the information provided by adb968008 above  it is amazing that they got this wrong.  However I've certainly made mistakes in my time and I suspect this is one of these ones that just slipped through the net .  However it really is bad for Hornby . This is one of their top spec models , that retails for high price and they know will be to a market that is fastidious in its attention to detail , so they really do need to have a series of checks in place to deliver the goods correctly.  Ultimately they have wasted precious production capacity on something that isnt right . Not what the company needs at the moment .

[Waverley West]

Hornby desperately need to appoint someone in a Ben Jones-like role a la Heljan. Sadly, I don't think they're bothered enough about the era (1975-1995) to do anything so proactive.

 

Fortunately, I already have a Petroleum Sector 60 and a Coal Sector one (complete with its incorrectly coloured roof in need of respraying), so that will do me.

 

[jonny777]

Yes, my suspicion is that the initial spec was probably correct, but the overseas quality control man (with no experience of UK railways) has thought 'surely those blue and yellow squares ought to line up with the change of grey colour?' and has insisted the transfer be moved upwards until they do. 

 

 

 

 

[66738]

14 hours ago, Simon Bendall said:

 

I think its the only accurate one in terms of the triple grey shades but the logo is wrong, more upside down Metals than Petroleum, easy enough to fix though.  Its certainly my go to for triple grey 60s but they aren't easy to find these days.

Ok. Thanks for that. I’m happy that the general consensus is that 60062 colours seem right but disappointed that the logo is slightly wrong. What’s up with their modern D+E section? Why is the attention to detail missing so often? I don’t pay too much attention to Hornby steam locomotives (only own a Hornby Black 5 which I admit is lovely), so can’t say for certain but I’d take a guess that they would not let as many kettles go out with livery issues. 
66738

[Craigw]

41 minutes ago, 66738 said:

I don’t pay too much attention to Hornby steam locomotives (only own a Hornby Black 5 which I admit is lovely), so can’t say for certain but I’d take a guess that they would not let as many kettles go out with livery issues. 
66738

 

Obviously you have paid no attention to the game that is Hornby trying to get GWR green right.

 

Craig W

[159220]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

This is how BR Specified it in January 1990 on their official livery specification sheets..

 

 

Perfect example of the problem here, poor poor and frankly inexcusable research! This is not the first livery blunder in the last year, but certainly the first to be properly noticed. 

 

To my recollection we have had: 

 

67023 with incorrect orange giving a red appearance (and on 66847 but why would I buy that)

800003 with incorrect door colour and first class signage

Scotrail HST incorrect roof colour 

 

That is (at rrp) £896 Hornby could have had from me if not for the basic errors which just infuriate me!

 

[159220]

1 hour ago, jonny777 said:

Yes, my suspicion is that the initial spec was probably correct, but the overseas quality control man (with no experience of UK railways) has thought 'surely those blue and yellow squares ought to line up with the change of grey colour?' and has insisted the transfer be moved upwards until they do. 

 

 

 

 

My experience is the HK and Chinese based developers/manufacturers are rather more switched on about railway design/finish than many UK modellers are! This is a basic error on the artwork/sample approval which would have been done in the Margate via research or the lack of it. 

[SweenyTod1]

When Hornby brought out thr LNER Sandringham loco, The artwork on the box was superb, BUT the model's artwork was anything but. The misaligned cabside number and tender lettering was all over the place. After two returns to the box shifter, phone calls to Hornby, who sent  me a replacement (still no better), I redid it myself and renamed it in the process!  So Hornby's QA/QC department still does not have the required knowledge and skillset they should have. I am very wary about what I buy from them now. Exhibition prices may be a bit higher, but at least you can see it in the flesh first, before you buy.

Tod

[66738]

3 hours ago, Craigw said:

 

Obviously you have paid no attention to the game that is Hornby trying to get GWR green right.

 

Craig W

Yes, that one has past me by I’m afraid. 
66738

[YesTor]

It's a pig's ear if ever there was one... a pig's ear, I tells ya! 

 

 

...however if they let a few go at 50 quid a pop I might just be interested. 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by YesTor

[owentherail]

9 hours ago, jonny777 said:

Just remove the logo transfer altogether, renumber to 60017 and there you have it.  

 

 

At least if Hornby did this one they would not get the logo wrong !!! 

[GWR-fan]

Oh the humanity, two pages of shock and horror over a toy.  Honestly,  as a U.S. official infamously remarked, "get over it".  As it is the only game in town you either buy it and fix it if it horrifies you so much or you do not buy it.  Some people really need to get out of the train shed and see that there are more pressing and urgent things going on in this world than an incorrect livery application.

[truffy]

Woah! Who unplugged your hair straightener?

 

It's not a model that's of any interest to me, but even I can see that this is a howler.

 

This is a model railway forum. There may be "more pressing and urgent things going on in this world", but what's that got to do with it?

Edited November 21, 2019 by truffy

[GWR-fan]

Did Hornby recall all the incorrect shade GWR models or the GWR coaches with modern BR bogies, or liveries with the colour separation minusculey incorrectly aligned on a coach side or the numerous other faults that we have come to associate with Hornby models?  Yes,  there are livery application issues with this model which realistically would have passed muster only some eagle eyed modeller has spotted the incorrect positioning of a logo and cab numbers.  For most the issues would have not been noticed.  Are Hornby going to recall the whole batch and redistribute with correct livery,  uh,  no?   Without QC inspectors onhand artwork approved in the UK and interpreted by a worker in a foreign country is prone to mistakes happening.  Was the initial approved artwork actually correct?  The painting mask is obviously incorrect for the logo application and would require a new mask.  Are Hornby going to correct the mistake in a future production, maybe but definitely not a certainty.  These are toys and compromises are to be expected.  Surely the issue should be raised with the manufacturer if one feels that they have been cheated in getting a model with livery problems.  however,  given that such issues are common place I really do not see much of a response from Hornby.

[66738]

1 hour ago, GWR-fan said:

Oh the humanity, two pages of shock and horror over a toy.  Honestly,  as a U.S. official infamously remarked, "get over it".  As it is the only game in town you either buy it and fix it if it horrifies you so much or you do not buy it.  Some people really need to get out of the train shed and see that there are more pressing and urgent things going on in this world than an incorrect livery application.

I am fully aware of the bigger issues in the world. My model railway hobby is my escape from the daily grind and horrors of real life. And I suspect I’m not alone on that. I (we) pay good money (pre orders) and expect models to be right. What’s the point of our hobby if we run a substandard model (not toy) that doesn’t satisfy us? What’s the point if an item doesn’t make us happy? 
Why would we not be disappointed when a model that we have been looking forward to doesn’t meet our expectations? 
Their are some of us who take this hobby extremely seriously, and we are only fully satisfied if everything is just right.And you know what, that is fine. I really appreciate layouts that go to huge lengths to make things as spot on as they can. There are also people who are not quite as bothered about things being as close to perfect as possible. They accept inaccuracies. That is also fine. It’s our own layouts. It’s each to their own. 
This is a forum. A forum allows two pages of shock and horror if that is the way the particular thread is going. Input may be favourable towards a subject and sometimes may be hostile towards a subject. Sadly this conversation is hostile to 60015 and concern for Hornby (whom are not very financially sound) getting things wrong, and us, the consumer not making them purchases. Hornby really don’t need these situations like we don’t need a hole in the cranium cavity. We are ‘getting 
over it’ through discussion. 
 

66738

Edited November 21, 2019 by 66738

[GWR-fan]

I understand that there are livery issues with the model which in theory should not be there.  I understand that there are dedicated modellers who seek their toys/models to be exact scale representations of the prototype and yet some criticise about a logo location or a wrong shade of a colour and yet these same people ignore the 16.5mm track spacing.  Surely if such people are seeking perfection then a correct gauge representation would be uppermost in their modelling,   not just the livery. 

 

I realise that I am playing the devil's advocate but while the livery defects are on the model,  it is not the end of the world.  Yes, Hornby have done it again and unfortunately will continue to do so.  They are a toy train manufacturer.  Standards and models have vastly improved since the Margate days but alas,  even with the dedication of assembly line workers in China,  unless an inspector is present to authorise the assembly then mistakes will occur.  A manufacturer prepares livery art and approves painted samples.  At some point either the manufacturer erroneously approved faulty samples or the chosen Chinese factory misinterpreted the placing of the logos and the livery specs.   Mistakes happen and we the consumer pay for flawed products.  Who are we to blame?  Personally,  I believe that  Hornby will view this as a storm in a teacup.  For others though,  yes it is annoying and for some extremely annoying but alas I feel that any discussion will fall on deaf ears. 

 

Hornby ten or so years ago under Sanda Kan had no issue with the hue of GWR green and yet with the move to other manufacturers seems to always get the correct shade of green wrong and continue to get it wrong despite constant criticism.  If the entire livery is wrong and the company ignore complaints then what hope for a logo location issue?

[truffy]

52 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

Standards and models have vastly improved since the Margate days

 

Ummm, we're still in "Margate days"...

 

Quote

Address:
Customer Services
Hornby Hobbies Ltd
Enterprise Road
Westwood Industrial Estate
Margate
Kent CT9 4JX
UK

 

 

52 minutes ago, GWR-fan said:

always get the correct shade of green wrong 

 

By definition, you cannot get the "correct shade of green" wrong, only the shade of green.