Rapido in the newspaper

[BR60103]

Jason made the business section of one of the big newspapers today. Unfortunately, not the best news.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2020/02/24/almost-a-quarter-of-small-businesses-have-been-hurt-by-the-rail-blockades-including-one-that-ironically-sells-model-trains.html

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

On 27/02/2020 at 02:52, BR60103 said:

Jason made the business section of one of the big newspapers today. Unfortunately, not the best news.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2020/02/24/almost-a-quarter-of-small-businesses-have-been-hurt-by-the-rail-blockades-including-one-that-ironically-sells-model-trains.html

 

 

That's interesting and very unfortunate.

 

What is the gist of the protestor's issue, then, those that are blocking these rail lines in Canada?

 

I say interesting, because that kind of mass trespass wouldn't be allowed on the UK rail network, the BTP would quickly sort that out.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Captain Kernow

[Dungrange]

19 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

What is the gist of the protester's issue, then, those that are blocking these rail lines in Canada?

 

According to the linked article, "the protests (are) in support of five Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs who oppose the passage of the $6.6 billion Coastal GasLink natural gas pipeline through their traditional territory in Northern British Columbia".

 

It's clearly designed to raise awareness of their grievances.  Unfortunate for all of the businesses who are impacted though.

[Captain Kernow]

So they're not actually protesting about railways or the actions of rail companies, then?

 

Would the local police tolerate a similar prolonged protest that blocked roads in the same way, I wonder?

 

[Oldddudders]

2 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

So they're not actually protesting about railways or the actions of rail companies, then?

 

Would the local police tolerate a similar prolonged protest that blocked roads in the same way, I wonder?

 

They did here! Gilets jaunes in late 2018 held all sorts of places and arterial highways to ransom. Suddenly the presence of police who carry arms at all times seemed unimportant. Disruption was the protestors' right. 

[Captain Kernow]

It's interesting. I have sometimes sympathised with certain protests in recent years, but I always experience a sense-of-humour failure whenever there is any threat to the safe and orderly running of the railway system.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Captain Kernow

[4630]

55 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

So they're not actually protesting about railways or the actions of rail companies, then?

 

Would the local police tolerate a similar prolonged protest that blocked roads in the same way, I wonder?

 

 

50 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

They did here! Gilets jaunes in late 2018 held all sorts of places and arterial highways to ransom. Suddenly the presence of police who carry arms at all times seemed unimportant. Disruption was the protestors' right. 

 

And also in London last October when Extinction Rebellion decided to block some streets for several days, despite their protest being banned.

 

[woodenhead]

It's no different to Extinction Rebellion in the UK or similar protests in France - people's right to peacefully protest but if you stand by the side of road with flags and banners no-one takes any notice so you need to block passage in a non damaging manner so that you cause some disruption without endangering yours and anyone else's life.

 

Clearly the native population feel like they are being walked over by the Canadian Government and the oil industry such that they need to raise their level of protest to something that will make the news.

 

For Jason, it's an opportunity to both promote his business and at the same time let investors know why he is having some issues at present - those engines he had in the photos were very well placed.  It seems other companies have been getting their containers out by road.

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

That's interesting and very unfortunate.

 

What is the gist of the protestor's issue, then, those that are blocking these rail lines in Canada?

 

I say interesting, because that kind of mass trespass wouldn't be allowed on the UK rail network, the BTP would quickly sort that out.

 

 

It is a very long and complicated issue, with some violence in the past, and a lack of trust based on past behaviours (and very poor current behavior by the federal government on some issues, including failing to provide the basics like clean drinking water https://globalnews.ca/news/5887716/first-nations-boil-water-advisories/ ).

 

The issue (well, really just the latest issue) is a question of pipelines and in this case a natural gas pipeline that needs/wants to pass through land owned by a specific tribe in BC.  My understanding is an elected group of leaders want the pipeline (and its revenue), while the hereditary chiefs opposed - the question somewhat being who is more legitimate.  Complicated by environmentalists being against the pipeline, recently the BC courts ordered the blockade removed and the RCMP (acting not as a federal police force, but in their role as the equivalent to a BC police force for which the province of BC pays them) moved in and made arrests and removed the blockade and remained on site to enforce the injunction.

 

This resulted in the Mohawk's in Ontario putting up a blockade on the Toronto-Montreal CN rail line, which cuts through Mohawk territory.  CN got an injunction, but the OPP refused to enforce the injunction by force and instead did some talking and perhaps some other actions.  This is in part because the OPP have a bad history with respect to native disputes, see Ipperwash(1).  This also partially continued because the public and media, being incompetent, kept demanding the federal government "do something" and ignored the Ontario government, whose jurisdiction and hence ability to do something it actually was (the injunctions and their enforcement are a provincial matter).  But complicated by it being Mohawk territory, so not really Ontario territory (perhaps, hasn't really been covered by the media).

 

As for your assertion that the BTP would "quickly sort it out", doesn't really apply in Canada for a couple of reasons.

 

First, while a specific blockade could be dealt with, the large amount of track in low population areas simply means you can quickly end up playing a game of whack-a-mole.

 

Second, there is the thorny question of legal jurisdiction (which is in part what started this latest round).  There are part of Canada / part independent nation issues that make things complicated - they are called First Nations for a reason.  So imagine a UK rail line ran through some territory that belonged to the embassy of a foreign nation and the complications that would result from trying to remove people from what might in a legal perspective not be UK soil.

 

 

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipperwash_Crisis

 

Further conflict and it's aftermath can be seen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis

Edited March 4, 2020 by mdvle
spelling

[mdvle]

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

It's no different to Extinction Rebellion in the UK or similar protests in France - people's right to peacefully protest but if you stand by the side of road with flags and banners no-one takes any notice so you need to block passage in a non damaging manner so that you cause some disruption without endangering yours and anyone else's life.

 

More complicated than that - the legal frameworks are such that the First Nations are more of a legitimate government/nation than simply a group of individuals.

 

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

 

Clearly the native population feel like they are being walked over by the Canadian Government and the oil industry such that they need to raise their level of protest to something that will make the news.

 

Too broad a categorization - the majority of native bands have made deals with the pipeline companies and are reasonably happy to exchange pipeline access to their lands for access payments.

 

3 hours ago, woodenhead said:

For Jason, it's an opportunity to both promote his business and at the same time let investors know why he is having some issues at present - those engines he had in the photos were very well placed.  It seems other companies have been getting their containers out by road.

 

Not really - there isn't a lot of extra road haulage capacity.

[Captain Kernow]

Thanks mdvle for your information, most enlightening. Not at all like the UK, as you say.

 

And as woodenhead says, let's hope Jason can find some silver lining to his advantage here.

 

I wonder what the support base for the protests will be, once real people start losing their jobs as a result of the enforced economic inactivity? (or perhaps that has started to happen already?).

 

[mdvle]

The blockade was removed last week, there were some skirmishes including the burning of tires on the tracks but for the most part things seem to be solved (for now) at Belleville.  I think there are still some minor blockades happening in Quebec, but they don't have the same capacity of disruption.

 

So the big issue now is just for CN to catch up.

 

Regarding support, didn't pay enough attention to know but I don't think they ever had much in the way of public support, and there were many calls for a charge in and throw them in jail response - with a minority government at the federal level things were amplified as the opposition tried to portray the government as being weak.