A3’s fitted with double chimneys and smoke deflectors

[TravisM]

I’ve got a very recent release of a Hornby A3 “Flying Scotsman” with a double chimney and the Witte German style smoke deflectors and I was wondering how many other A3’s were fitted out like that.  I know it was done towards the end of their working lives so it wouldn’t be a surprise if only a few the whole fleet got fitted out like that.

[Steamport Southport]

I think all of them got the double blastpipe and chimney.

 

Not all got the German smoke deflectors though, but I think it was 55. Also Humorist had A2 style deflectors.

 

If you are thinking of renaming it then also be aware that some of them had A4 boilers including FS and the tender differences.

 

I've just remembered a place with all the details. Try BR Database.

 

http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=600112003&loco=103

 

 

 

Jason

Edited April 20, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[slilley]

No 60075 St Frusquin got a double chimney but somehow avoided smoke deflectors of any sort so far as I can establish.

[The Border Reiver]

The 4 Canal A3s didn't get smoke deflectors as the shed came under the London Midland region and I heard that they refused to pay for them!

[doilum]

According to Yeadon's Register 55 of the class were fitted circa 1961-2. There is a list in the appendix of the RTCS green Bible. If you let me know a number I can check it for you. Just be aware that 52of the class were running with GN coal rail tenders, so a couple of alternatives might be needed.

[The Border Reiver]

How about smoke deflectors and NO chimney

 

Here are the last two A3s in store at Edinburgh St Margarets Shed in April 1966, 60052 and 60041. I climbed up on top to see where the chimneys had been. Only the double chimneys were removed (I wonder why?) everything else below remained in situ

 

 

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Weren't those two the ones cannibalised for spares for the preserved engines.

 

I think someone tried to save Prince Palatine but was unsuccessful and much of Salmon Trout went to Flying Scotsman including its boiler.

 

 

 

Jason

[The Border Reiver]

11 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Weren't those two the ones cannibalised for spares for the preserved engines.

 

I think someone tried to save Prince Palatine but was unsuccessful and much of Salmon Trout went to Flying Scotsman including its boiler.

 

 

 

Jason

Hi

Yes, 60041 was stripped down in Cowlairs works in August 1966; 60052 went straight to McClemmans yard and was cut up there. That made me query why the chimney was removed at St Margarets when the rest of it was stripped in the works. My friend bought the chimney from Jubilee 45697 and it's in his back yard with flowers growing in it. I wonder if either of these chimneys were bought by a third party?

 

Edited April 24, 2020 by The Border Reiver
Spelling

[w124bob]

60096 at Holbeck in '62, double chimney, smoke deflectors and small tender

https://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/6329/coming-up-in-issue-249-of-hr-strangers-at-holbeck/

Sometimes coming at a question from the opposite direction pays, in this case Google images for depots where A3's  appeared. 60036 same condition as above at Neville Hill

[Steamport Southport]

Not so much a small tender as a GNR type which most of them had at some point and the first ones had from new.

 

It might look a bit smaller as it had coal rails rather than the later design with fairings.

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

[doilum]

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Not so much a small tender as a GNR type which most of them had at some point and the first ones had from new.

 

It might look a bit smaller as it had coal rails rather than the later design with fairings.

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Capacities were virtually the same and overall dimensions were within an inch or so.

[JeremyC]

On 23/04/2020 at 19:26, The Border Reiver said:

How about smoke deflectors and NO chimney

 

Here are the last two A3s in store at Edinburgh St Margarets Shed in April 1966, 60052 and 60041. I climbed up on top to see where the chimneys had been. Only the double chimneys were removed (I wonder why?) everything else below remained in situ

 

 

 

 

According to Harry Knox in his book on St Margarets (pg 145/146) the chimney from one of these locos (probably Prince Palatine) was purchased by an enthusiast. When the enthusiast went to collect it he found his purchase included not only the double chimney he wanted, but the full Kylchap exhaust arrangement, petticoats et al as well.

Edited April 26, 2020 by JeremyC

[doilum]

A sort of related question. In British Railway days how were the handrails finished? St Frusqin will be in "almost clean" working condition.

[slilley]

18 hours ago, doilum said:

A sort of related question. In British Railway days how were the handrails finished? St Frusqin will be in "almost clean" working condition.

Just looked at the picture of 60075 in The Book of the A3s. On 9th July 1963, the loco has one piece handrail immediately above the upper hinge strap on the smokebox. The numberplate is above that and the lamp iron above that. It had a GN tender and an A4 boiler, so check how yours is modelled.

[doilum]

34 minutes ago, slilley said:

Just looked at the picture of 60075 in The Book of the A3s. On 9th July 1963, the loco has one piece handrail immediately above the upper hinge strap on the smokebox. The numberplate is above that and the lamp iron above that. It had a GN tender and an A4 boiler, so check how yours is modelled.

This IS spooky. I have just spent the last twenty minutes checking this very thing! The majority seem to have this arrangement but there are at least two or three in Yeadon's with a shorter raised cross rail and a low position number plate. The plates arrived from Severn Mill this morning and are currently paint hardening before fitting. All that then remains is to establish how much of the drain plumbing and if the front steps can be fitted to work on Peco points.

My choice of single chimney and shed dates St Eff to 1954_9 which, to be fair has always been my chosen modelling period for mainline locos. Thanks for the head up.

[Arun Sharma]

On 23/04/2020 at 19:26, The Border Reiver said:

How about smoke deflectors and NO chimney

 

Here are the last two A3s in store at Edinburgh St Margarets Shed in April 1966, 60052 and 60041. I climbed up on top to see where the chimneys had been. Only the double chimneys were removed (I wonder why?) everything else below remained in situ

 

 

 

 

Both also received yellow cab stripes of course

[doilum]

32 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

Both also received yellow cab stripes of course

On that theme: when were the white/ red warning patches applied?

[Arun Sharma]

There are photographs of LNER A3s in Apr 59 without any high voltage warning signs. Similarly 60065 was photographed with double blast pipe  but no HV flashes in July 59. June 1960 shows 60078 with no flashes either. However the summer of '62 shows 60059 and 60105 both with HV flashes. However 60050 early in 1963 didn't have the flashes. 60067 & 60102 had them in 1961 60054 had them in August 61. 

On balance, though you can't always prove a negative, I would say, that the A3s received the flashes between summer 1961 and the end of 1962 apart from those which were due withdrawal early in 1963.

My memory of these flashes is that they were a rectangular piece of painted formica with a pop rivet in each corner so something that could easily be applied at shed level.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Arun Sharma
addnl info

[doilum]

29 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

There are photographs of LNER A3s in Apr 59 without any high voltage warning signs. Similarly 60065 was photographed with double blast pipe  but no HV flashes in July 59. June 1960 shows 60078 with no flashes either. However the summer of '62 shows 60059 and 60105 both with HV flashes. However 60050 early in 1963 didn't have the flashes. 60067 & 60102 had them in 1961 60054 had them in August 61. 

On balance, though you can't always prove a negative, I would say, that the A3s received the flashes between summer 1961 and the end of 1962 apart from those which were due withdrawal early in 1963.

My memory of these flashes is that they were a rectangular piece of painted formica with a pop rivet in each corner so something that could easily be applied at shed level.

Many thanks. No need to go and buy some then.

I remember the arrival of the yellow stripes and asking my dad what they were for. These would have been on the Manchester Newcastle trains which, in those days, were routed through Castleford and Burton Salmon thus avoiding Leeds. The locomotives handling local traffic didn't receive them.