CXW's NER & H&BR (and Industrial) Workbench

[micklner]

From a Hornby B1

 

Body  rear section 3.50mm diameter ,front 3.25mm diameter

Buffer Head 5mm

Length to front of buffer head 7mm

 

To my eyes the body diameter is the oversize part .

[CXW1]

42 minutes ago, micklner said:

From a Hornby B1

 

Body  rear section 3.50mm diameter ,front 3.25mm diameter

Buffer Head 5mm

Length to front of buffer head 7mm

 

To my eyes the body diameter is the oversize part .

 

Thanks for this. 

 

The rear section of the body on the cast buffers is 3.81mm. If I scraped off the two coats of paint it will be less. The rest of the dimensions are very similar to the Hornby buffers.

 

Looking at the picture again I can see what you mean, but I think I can live with 0.3mm.

 

 

[Compound2632]

On 28/04/2020 at 23:48, CXW1 said:

A couple of years ago I made a model of a J74 for no obvious reason. I understand that the prototypes never had the best reputation and were designed by the NER ‘Locomotive Committee’ from spare parts that were lying around after McDonnell got the push. The model followed a similar theme and was cobbled together from parts and off-cuts that I already had in my spares box and it didn’t cost much to make.

 

Don't knock the Locomotive Committee - as far as I can work out, the engineering genius behind the "Tennants" and the Class 8 tank engines was none other than Wilson Worsdell, who had struck out for independence from the family's Crewe connections by taking the post of Assistant Locomotive Superintendent to McDonnell, only to have big brother T.W. appointed over him. He got there in the end - a patient man, evidently.

 

I'm enjoying the H&B locos here especially. I do rather like Matthew Stirling's interpretation of the family traditions - which seems to have more in common with his uncle's style than his father's.

[CXW1]

11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Don't knock the Locomotive Committee - as far as I can work out, the engineering genius behind the "Tennants" and the Class 8 tank engines was none other than Wilson Worsdell, who had struck out for independence from the family's Crewe connections by taking the post of Assistant Locomotive Superintendent to McDonnell, only to have big brother T.W. appointed over him. He got there in the end - a patient man, evidently.

 

I'm enjoying the H&B locos here especially. I do rather like Matthew Stirling's interpretation of the family traditions - which seems to have more in common with his uncle's style than his father's.

 

Thanks for the kind comments. The J74s may have an unfair reputation - possibly because they weren't officially designed by one of the Worsdell brothers or Mr Raven. I read somewhere that there isn't an official works photograph of the class which may have contributed to the view that they were held in low regard. However, it would appear that they gave 40+ years service without too many problems and the Tennants didn't do so badly either so I agree that the Locomotive Committee shouldn't be knocked. There also seems to be conflicting opinions on Mr McDonnell.

 

I didn't set out to build a fleet of H&B locos - I think the J23 was the first one and I just got a bit carried away!! 

 

 

[CXW1]

Not much progress to report of late. I can usually find other things to do when the weather is nice. 

 

I have made the upper front frames for the D24 and soldered them in place. This has strengthened the footplate as I hoped it would. The rivet heads on the frames are made from brass wire and still need tidying up a bit. The basic boiler shape has been cut from brass tube to the correct length but it still needs opening up towards the rear were the firebox is (and where the motor will go) and it also needs a smokebox of course. It is just held in place by blu-tak at the moment but I'm sure you get the general idea. 

 

Hopefully the correct size wheels will arrive soon which will allow me to have a think about splashers and getting the ride-height of the bogie sorted out. It is starting to take shape. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

 

[CXW1]

A bit more done to the boiler today. Nothing is fixed in place yet including the castings. The safety valve and dome are Northeastern Kits castings. The dome is not 100% correct but probably as good a casting as I'm going to find commercially. The chimney is from the spares box and I'm fairly sure it was an unused part from a Dave Alexander J27 kit. 

 

The tender has been borrowed from the J28 which appeared a few pages ago and was placed there just to satisfy my curiosity of what it could end up looking like. I will make another tender in due course. The difference in height between the tender and the footplate will be rectified when the wheels arrive - hopefully next week.

 

Once I get the wheels I will turn my attention to making it work. I'm in two minds about what to do about a gearbox. I am going to use a Mashima 1024 motor that I have had for a while. There isn't much room between the hornblocks but it will be possible to fit a High Level slim liner gearbox and the loco has been designed around using one of these. The other option is to use a London Road Models single stage motor mount - I already have one of these (I think it is 38:1 ratio) and I'm sure it will be OK and also save me a few quid if I use it. 

 

 

[CXW1]

A quick update to show some slow progress with the D24. The correct sized wheels arrived last week which allowed me to get the ride-height sorted out, fit the lower front frames and make a better fixing arrangement for the bogie. The front buffer height looks pretty good when the loco is stood next to the horsebox that I built a few weeks ago, which suggests that my guesswork and various drawings and plans on the back of envelopes were OK. 

 

I still haven't fixed the boiler or castings in place yet - they are just balanced or held down with blu-tak for now. 

 

I mentioned in the previous post that I would have a think about using a High Level slimliner gearbox or a simple single stage motor mount. This was an easy decision in the end because the motor mount that I have in my spares box is slightly too wide. So, I will have to order a gearbox. 

 

I have also made another 2mm scale wagon (RCH 1923 mineral wagon kit from the 2mm Association) which will end up on Yeovil Town. I will hand-letter this when my eyes and patience feel up to the task. Pictured next to the obligatory 2mm modeler's coin of course!!

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

 

 

 

 

[CXW1]

I appreciate that this is another D24 update which shows very little visible progress. However, it now works, which is always a relief and one of the major steps to overcome. 

 

I ended up managing to squeeze in a Branchlines 51:1 motor mount between the hornblocks and I haven't bothered with a 'proper' gearbox yet. I fitted the motor mount just to get it running and to check the clearances - fortunately everything is OK. I think that the running  should be acceptable just using the motor mount once it has some better pickups and plenty of weight in the boiler. I will also fit pickups to the tender. There is enough room to fit a High Level slim liner gearbox in the future if I find that the single stage motor mount isn't satisfactory. 

 

Now I know it works I can think about permanently fixing the boiler to the footplate, making the splashers, cab interior, steps etc. Plus there is a tender to make. 

 

There is also an ever-increasing queue of things that need painting (N12, J71, J79 etc) and I will try and pluck up the courage to mix-it with the masses and visit Halfords at the local retail park next week to get some spray cans. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by CXW1
typo

[CXW1]

I turned my attention back to the 'family heirloom' Y8 this afternoon. I mentioned on the previous page that this was an old Ks kit that my grandfather made 40-odd years ago and it was my intention to rebuild it with a new chassis, modern motor and the correct size wheels whilst preserving as much of the original as possible.

 

It still needs a few things doing to it (cab glazing, driver and fireman, light weathering etc) but I'm pleased with how it has turned out given what it used to look like. To my eyes it is still the same old Ks model with its shortcomings - the chimney and tank fillers are pretty awful - but it was important to retain as much of the original model as possible for sentimental reasons. 

 

When I started this project I had intended to replace the whitemetal boiler with a new  one made from brass tube. There is a gap in the bottom of the original boiler which was there to enable the previous DS10 motor to drive off the front axle (it now drives off the back axle). I eventually decided to stick with the original boiler in order to preserve as much of the original model as possible, and the gap isn't too visible. However, this meant that I had a spare Y8 boiler so I thought it would be rude not to turn this into a new separate loco and I have been putting this together off and on over the past few weeks in between working on the D24. I'm going to try and finish off some other stuff before I do any more to it though.

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

 

 

 

[CXW1]

A little more progress with the D24. The splashers weren't the easiest things to make thanks to the prominent brass beading. They were made by forming the tops from fairly thick brass strip (approx 0.7mm) and then fitting the splasher sides with a slight recess. The idea is when the loco is painted I will scrape the paint off the side of the brass strip to give the effect of beading. Not perfect by any means but hopefully it will look OK from normal viewing distance. 

 

 

The castings are still just placed on top of the boiler and a little more work is needed to get them seated properly. Next jobs on the body will be steps, handrails and making a start on the cab interior.

 

I wasn't entirely happy with the way it ran using a single stage motor mount so I am going to use a High Level gearbox. With hindsight I should have gone with this option in the first place rather than being tight and trying to save a few quid.  

 

In other news the Ks Y8 failed its running-in test after initially running OK and has been sent back to the works. I'm not entirely sure what the problem is but it has developed a bit of a limp. The quartering seems to be OK when the final drive gear is disengaged so further investigations are needed. It has never ran well in 40 years and it continues to be a stubborn old thing. All good fun though. 

 

Cheers 

 

Chris

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by CXW1
Spelling

[Compound2632]

Looking very like!

[CXW1]

I didn’t feel like doing much to the D24 this evening but did manage to make the cab steps. I didn’t bother taking any pictures.

 

I have mentioned on here before that I don’t have a large layout and many of my locos spend a fair amount of time in their boxes. I occasionally get a few of them out to give them a run up and down my test track just to make sure they still work – fortunately, they usually do.

 

I always like looking at other people’s models, so I have reciprocated and posted a few pictures of some of my ex NER engines that were made during the past 4 to 5 years but not yet appeared on here. 

 

The N10 is a modified Dave Alexander kit with scratchbuilt frames. The frames that were supplied with the kit were a strange affair with an oversize cut-out for the trailing wheel. This caused two problems – firstly there was a lot of daylight around the wheel (which isn’t there on the prototype) and secondly the frames extended into the cab which prevented the fitting of a cab floor. The replacement home-brewed frames have managed to eliminate these problems and I think it now looks more like an N10. The front and middle axles are in hornblocks which has improved the running qualities. The original gearbox and motor (plus a few things like brakes etc) were recycled from the original chassis. Dave’s kits always fitted together very well but I think on this one he got the shape of the cab cut-outs slightly wrong and I think that the boiler is pitched too high. Still a nice-enough model though. I think I had ran out of 'Ls' and 'Rs' when it got painted so it ended up in late period NER livery. 

 

 

 

The Y7 is also a Dave Alexander kit that I made a good few years ago and was pretty-much built ‘out of the box’.

 

 

 

Next is an ex-NER Class 398 which I made 4 or 5 years ago. There was a huge variation within this class and no two pictures of prototypes appear to be the same. This one – No. 608 – was modeled from a photograph in the RCTS book. I now have some better-looking spring castings for the tender and I will fit these at some point.

 

 

I also found a picture of the 398 having a run-out on Buckingham a while ago (picture taken by Tony Gee)

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by CXW1
typo

[Worsdell forever]

I'd never seen a model of a 398 until I built one, now they're everywhere... 

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Worsdell forever said:

I'd never seen a model of a 398 until I built one, now they're everywhere... 

 

I bet you don't know whether to be upset that yours isn't as unusual as you thought it was or pleased that another enthusiast shares your taste in locos!

 

In EM too! We ought to arrange a run on your layout when things return to normal, so we can have the two photographed side by side.

[CXW1]

5 hours ago, Worsdell forever said:

I'd never seen a model of a 398 until I built one, now they're everywhere... 

Hi Paul

 

I did follow your 398 build with interest and in the knowledge that I no longer owned the only 398 that I had ever seen...

 

I have also thought about making one of the 398s with 5ft 8inch wheels - one day perhaps.

 

Cheers 

 

Chris 

 

 

[CXW1]

3 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I bet you don't know whether to be upset that yours isn't as unusual as you thought it was or pleased that another enthusiast shares your taste in locos!

 

In EM too! We ought to arrange a run on your layout when things return to normal, so we can have the two photographed side by side.

 

Definitely a case of good taste and for that reason I'm not upset.

 

I still think I'm safe with a J78 crane tank and a J80 in 4mm scale - surely no-one else has made either of those......?

 

 

[Asterix2012]

Did anyone ever do a J78 kit?

 

I  know connoisseur did the J79 and there is not a massive difference beyond the obvious crane.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Asterix2012

[CXW1]

1 hour ago, Asterix2012 said:

Did anyone ever do a J78 kit?

 

I  know connoisseur did the J79 and there is not a massive difference beyond the obvious crane.

 

There might be a J78 kit in 7mm scale (possibly Furness Railway Wagon Co) but I'm not aware of a kit in 4mm scale. 

 

[CXW1]

Not a great deal of visible progress to report on the D24 but it now boasts a nice High Level gearbox in place of the single stage motor mount. I've got nothing against single stage gears in motor mounts but for whatever reason I couldn't get it to run as well as I'd like it to. There isn't much room between the hornblocks but I have managed to fit a Roadrunner Plus gearbox with one of Chris's new 1020 motors. 

 

Now that I'm happy with the running I will start on the small detailing jobs. I think the only visible development since the previous picture is the cab steps. 

 

I have again borrowed the J28 tender for the picture below and I will hopefully make a start on a new similar tender for the D24 next week.

 

The photo also shows that there is a lot of cleaning up to do and some gaps to fill - not always visible to the naked eye. 

 

The boiler castings are still just plonked on if anyone was thinking they weren't straight. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2020 by CXW1
Correction

[CXW1]

I've been a bit quiet on here of late due to several reasons but managed to find a few hours this weekend to have another look at the old Ks Y8. I mentioned a while ago that it had developed a bit of a limp after initially appearing to run OK. To cut a long story short I ended up pulling it apart and starting again. I think part of the problem was too much 'slop' in the coupling rods so these were discarded and a new set made up from Alan Gibson 'universals'. I think another contributing factor to the poor running was trying to recycle/re-use parts of the original gears. These have been chucked in the bin and replaced with a High Level Roadrunner Compact Plus gearbox with one of Chris's new 1015 motors - much better. Pictures below show the new gearbox fitted to the chassis and a final one of the model after it was put back together. Still needs crew/lamps/weathering etc. I think this is as good as it ever will be given the distinctly average starting point. 

 

I'll hopefully get back to the D24 in the near future. I started work on the tender, but nothing worth taking pictures of just yet. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by CXW1
Correction

[CXW1]

I have started adding some of the fiddly bits to the D24 including my least favourite job - the one-piece hand rail. I tend to find that it usually takes a few goes and a bit of swearing to get this right but on this occasion it worked first time.  Probably more down to good luck than anything else. The prototypes had a curved reversing lever (see photos on the previous pages) but I will fit this and the ejector exhaust pipe after painting and lining. Apologies if my terminology for various components of a steam loco aren't 100% correct. 

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

 

 

[RichardT]

On 23/08/2020 at 22:48, CXW1 said:

I think this is as good as it ever will be given the distinctly average starting point. 

You say “distinctly average”, I say “pretty damn good”.  I have one of these old stagers stashed unbuilt somewhere left over from my teenage 4mm years - you’ve inspired me to dig it out and breathe some life into it.

Edited August 27, 2020 by RichardT

[CXW1]

2 minutes ago, RichardT said:

You say “distinctly average”, I say “pretty damn good”.  I have one of these old stagers stashed unbuilt somewhere left over from my teenage 4mm years - you’ve inspired me to dig it out and breathe some life into it.

 

Thanks. The kits are certainly 'of their time' but they can still be turned into something half-decent. I don't know if you have seen the whole restoration story on the previous pages but it was the starting point that was 'average' rather than the finished result.  The kit was originally put together about 40 years ago and has received several modifications over its lifetime which didn't do it any favours. I'm pretty happy with how it has turned out - I'm not one for blowing my own trumpet but it is definitely a 'silk purse out of a sow's ear' job. Good luck with yours if you dig it out. One of the good things with Y8s is the fact their small size means they don't take up too much time and money.

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

[RichardT]

Hi Chris

 

I’ll certainly  read your experiences before I start cutting into the shrink wrap.  I’m pretty certain that I bought the kit about 40 years ago when I was still at school from a now-demised local model shop - it was the cheapest complete kit I could afford.  But I also remember reading some Iain Rice articles in Model Railways about the same time talking about how he tried to get proper frame profiles on his first kit-built locos, then realised that most modellers didn’t bother with “below the footplate.”  In that light I looked at the plain brass slabs that Ks supplied as frames, thought “I must try to improve on those”, put the kit away pending acquisition of some tools - and then A levels/university/life got in the way!  Time to finally have a go I think!

 

Thanks for the encouragement.

Richard

[CXW1]

A bit of progress on the tender this evening. Still plenty to do, but I'm sure you get the general idea.

 

I have also done some work on the cab interior - the backhead (just visible) is a casting from North Eastern Kits. I also have some nice lost wax pipework and other details from the same source but these will be fitted after painting.