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Repainting Lima GUVs - to prime or not to prime?


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I am putting together a carriage sidings/parcels marshalling yard layout set in the early 80s, so firmly in the BR Blue era.

I need quite a few dirty blue GUVs to make it look authentic and, so far, I have one :D

As I am using Kadee delayed action uncoupling, the latest Bachmann offering would require some plastic surgery to deal with the issue of incorrect height NEM pocket.  So I thought if I was going to have to do some butchery, then I may as well use the Lima GUV as it is less of a financial loss if it goes wrong. 

I have seen various livery Lima GUVs on that auction site and I am looking to get an airbrush for my birthday later this month. 

My questions are: do I need to prime the bodyshell before painting over it with Railmatch BR Blue? If so, which primer is best for you the job? And what ratio of paint to thinners should I use? A major factor in the equation is that the vans are going to end up heavily weathered, in a combination of roof dirt and sleeper grime. 

Thanks in advance. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm a great believer in primer.  I think, from what I've read here, that Halfords car primer will be best.  I use a similar product from our version of Halfords.

 

Here's a pic of some parts of my Lima LMS GUV after priming:

 

P1010006-002.JPG.1831a417b8e2a5358c9a808741ef7425.JPG

 

Primer gives a key for paint to stick to.  It also "normalises" the surface finish to allow an even topcoat.  Primer makes blemishes easier to see so they can be corrected before final paint.

 

My rule for primer is grey for top colours like blue or green etc.  Red oxide for maroon or brown.

 

John

Edited by brossard
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Always prime!  Halford Grey Primer (not the plastic primer) is perfect for the job, and dries quickly

 

I add thinners to until the mixture is the consistency of semi skimmed milk, if its enamels.  I dont use acrylics for spraying so cant advise on that

 

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11 minutes ago, Half-full said:

Always prime!  Halford Grey Primer (not the plastic primer) is perfect for the job, and dries quickly

 

I add thinners to until the mixture is the consistency of semi skimmed milk, if its enamels.  I dont use acrylics for spraying so cant advise on that

 

Out of interest, why would you not consider the plastic primer since the model is plastic?

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1 minute ago, pinzaboy said:

Out of interest, why would you not consider the plastic primer since the model is plastic?

I find it too thick for model application.  From what I understand, it 'etches' into to the plastic to create a bond, however car plastics are a different type from model plastics

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2 hours ago, Half-full said:

I find it too thick for model application.  From what I understand, it 'etches' into to the plastic to create a bond, however car plastics are a different type from model plastics

Interesting.  Ive always used the plastic primer. I'll give it a miss in future. Cheers!

Tim

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Last week I  purchased a rattle can Halfords grey primer, and htoday ordered some Newspapers/Express Parcels transfers. I got rail blue, sleeper grime and roof dirt paint last week. I have also just 'won' a maroon Lima GUV which will be my first attempt at repainting. I hope to get an airbrush in the next week or so. 

Another question - after the rail blue coat and transfers, do I need to apply a coat of varnish before continuing with the weathering coats of sleeper grime and roof dirt, or should I apply all the coats before varnish? Do I even need to varnish? Thanks

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  • RMweb Gold

 

One thing I do with RTR models before painting is strip off the old paint, this allows more details to show through the final coats instead of being slathered in factory finish and new topcoats.

Dot 4 is your friend.

 

Mike.

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If this is your first or an early effort you will least an awful lot about what works for you just by doing it. When I was a teenager 35+ years ago and was modelling in earnest I didn't use primers or varnishes because I was on a very limited budget and couldn't afford them. It was still possible to produce results, but over the years I have learnt through practice that unless you have a good, keyed neutral surface to work from, any change of colour scheme (as opposed to touching up or amending) benefits from a primer, even if it is a rattle can matt grey or white. If the finish is black, you can use matt black as a primer but the rule of thumb is to support your lightest finishing colour.

 

Varnishing is pretty essential where tranfers are used, and elsewhere is handy to finish a model but if you are going for weathered BR blue I would say it is only absolutely needed either to fix weathering powders or if you need to matt an otherwise glossy finish.

 

It's great that the project does involve a weathered finish as there is lots of scope to learn without making a fatal error. You will find over time that you develop your own preferences regardless of whethere anyone else says 'x' or 'y' is essential - the truth is there is no one method or technique, just practice and experience. 

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I upgraded the Lima LMS GUV:

 

You can see in the link my process which, TBH, is somewhat extreme.  Perhaps it will give you ideas.

 

The photo that comes up in the link box is NOT my van.

 

John

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yes, priming your GUV before painting can be a good method to find any blemishes or areas that need attention before painting, also if you remove or add any detail. Give your model a few light coats of BR blue, allow a short time of drying between coats, thinner wise use around 5-7 drops of thinner from a pipette to around 5ml of paint, some airbrushes ive noticed require different ratios slightly, so practise with your airbrush first until your comfortable using it, when I got my first airbrush I practised on an old Locomotive body until I got the correct ratio of paint I was happy with

 

NL

Edited by NickL2008
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Another thing to consider with a rake of weathered BR blue GUVs would be the fading of the blue under the grime.  Try mixing varying amounts of white in with the BR blue basecoat in the airbrush before doing the weathering.

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Posted (edited)

Apologies for the misinformation. It's actually a Hornby GUV.

 

I have owned an airbrush (my first ever) for two days and I am getting to grips with it by having a go at weathering track (more successful last night than the first). I have noticed that even with my biggest nozzle (0.5mm), the spray pattern is quite small. 

Given the large, almost completely window-free, area of the GUV coach side, would I be better off using a rattle can of BR Blue to get the 'basecoat' down, rather than risk getting a patchy finish from the airbrush? I know it's going to be weathered to within an inch of its life, but the real things started out ex-works, so should mine too?

Finally, which Railmatch is best for rattle can coach painting  - acrylic or enamel? ....lights blue touchpaper and retreats a safe distance ;)

Edited by 9C85
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I always try to get my models as close to ex works as I can....then weather the dickens out of them.

 

I find acrylics brush on quite nicely.  Then again British railway paint isn't available to me here so I make do.  If it were me I'd use enamel paint from a rattle can for the top colour.

 

I brush painted Humbrol acrylic for this:

 

P1010003-002.JPG.13c15c956c0c8012cd68517d30e08c86.JPG

 

Haven't quite got around to weathering yet.

 

John

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Thanks brossard. That looks really good. 

I have just remembered that many years ago I made a Southern Pride 2-EPB kit and IIRC I brush painted the roof, cab ends and underframe and it looked OK.

I then scratch built an NSE liveried 4-BEP (I studied in Portsmouth and always looked out for these on the Waterloo fast).  I was building a shelf layout of a carriage sidings and fuel point :D  but based in 3rd rail NSE territory. Having two young kids at the time put it so far down the list of priorities that it fell off.

.  

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I will spray where I can.  Roof grey is pretty close to primer grey so that's what I usually do.

 

Underframes are black so that's a no brainer.

 

You just need a painting plan so you minimize having to repaint areas.

 

John

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As I have come to a paint-enforced break in my track weathering, I thought I would move the GUV project on a bit. 

This afternoon I have removed the bodyshell and masked off the windows and the roof....

20200705_164916.jpg.91ae118dc78525fe5a6969a6dcf5c914.jpg

 

And I have given the sides and the ends a couple of coats of Halfords grey primer...

20200705_173454.jpg.3dfb5600d9127f9d36180c518e7c97c4.jpg

 

It will be a couple of days (or at the earliest tomorrow evening) before I can do the rail blue overcoats, so should I remove the masking tape from the roof and windows now and redo it when I do the blue coats, or will it still come off after 4 coats of aerosol?

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I have also 'de-branded' one side of the one rail blue GUV that I have  (Express Parcels) . I will use this to test my ability to fix Railtec Transfers.  I  bought a set when I started the Maroon GUV project.  I should have enough to do four 'Newspapers' vehicles, or maybe more if my latest either brilliant or stupid idea has legs.

20200705_175721.jpg.fd396f61dea83fef946616e6e0159e27.jpg

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2 hours ago, 9C85 said:

As I have come to a paint-enforced break in my track weathering, I thought I would move the GUV project on a bit. 

This afternoon I have removed the bodyshell and masked off the windows and the roof....

20200705_164916.jpg.91ae118dc78525fe5a6969a6dcf5c914.jpg

 

And I have given the sides and the ends a couple of coats of Halfords grey primer...

20200705_173454.jpg.3dfb5600d9127f9d36180c518e7c97c4.jpg

 

It will be a couple of days (or at the earliest tomorrow evening) before I can do the rail blue overcoats, so should I remove the masking tape from the roof and windows now and redo it when I do the blue coats, or will it still come off after 4 coats of aerosol?

I made the decision to remove the masking tape.  It's probably easier to re-apply it than risk not being able to get it off.

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I don't really like rattle cans for the top colour as they are prone to deliver too heavy a coat and obscure some fine detail.  Certainly they're easy, and deiver a nice smooth coat, but taking the time and trouble to use an airbrush instead will, IMO, give a superior finish without obscuring the detail.

 

DT

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Posted (edited)

20200708_164924.jpg.6921cee1adf0d396275544adb59c48ec.jpg

 

Two coats of Halfords grey primer and two coats of Railmatch Rail Blue enamel later (all delivered by rattle can) and I am quite happy with my first repaint so far.

I need to do the roof next (tidying up the overspray above the cantrail), then the Newspapers transfers, then the weathering. I read somewhere how much a difference it makes just picking out the handbrake wheel in white.. so I did it, and it does.

Edited by 9C85
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Railtec Transfers applied. Not without incident and strong language.  The first one went on a treat which is always a bad thing for me 

 The rest were reassuringly fiddly for my massive hands and dodgy eyesight. 

 

20200712_154103.jpg.10218d3838f22227eb19979ac040d0e1.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)

Two coats of Testors Dullcote later...

 

20200712_182449.jpg.920c245e0b441eaec715f61b5dbd7561.jpg

 

Not a perfect finish, but hopefully weathering will cover the mistakes. 

Edited by 9C85
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