Graham Radish Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) Hello everyone, Does anyone know of any software that can backup the CV settings of ZIMO sound decoders?, im using the digikeijs dr5000. Thank you in advance. Edited June 8, 2020 by Graham Radish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 JMRI. Its what the DecoderPro bit is designed to do. Or, if your system is supported by it, there are some other tools listed on the Zimo website. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Radish Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 (edited) Just had a play on jmri decoder pro, im afraid that ive wiped all the sounds from my class70 (MX649N) decoder! EDIT: Setting CV first to 145 then to 8 using my DR5000 has restored everything, phew... Edited June 8, 2020 by Graham Radish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Assuming you mean CV8 then you can't set it to anything. 145 is the result returned when you read CV8 on a Zimo decoder, writing 8 to CV8 on a Zimo decoder performs a reset. If you read CV8 again you'll see that it still returns 145. Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Radish Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 Just glad i got all my sounds back lol, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 10 hours ago, Graham Radish said: Just had a play on jmri decoder pro, im afraid that ive wiped all the sounds from my class70 (MX649N) decoder! EDIT: Setting CV first to 145 then to 8 using my DR5000 has restored everything, phew... "Just had a play" seems to mean "I randomly changed a few things and stuff happened". Well yes, that was the equivalent of pressing dozens of buttons manually. You can't wipe the sounds with JMRI (as you've found). Its impossible, because changing the actual sound elements requires Zimo programming hardware (or a Roco Z21 which includes that hardware). What you can change is the CV's which control the sound. The first step of getting settings into JMRI is the READ the decoder into JMRI. Do it one pane (Tab on the decoder view) at a time. Then make changes from the settings recorded from your decoder. The default settings in any sound decoder in JMRI is an educated guess. Its usually taken from the decoder maker's manuals. But, sound writers usually move the defaults around. In the UK, there are conventions on which function keys control which features that are different to other countries, so that means changes to the default. Because of the vast number of settings, the only safe way is to read the decoder values in first, and then make changes. - Nigel 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I am in the nice position of having a PC in the layout room, so it is always connected to my PowerPro. When I get a new loco, I make it a habit to read it into DecoderPro. If you look at the settings on other tabs right now, they are DecoderPro defaults, not the actual settings. The next thing I do is go the the CV tab & read all entries. This can take around 20 minutes & it may stop reading when it gets to the higher values, but I can't ever remember changing these anyway. I now have a backup of all CVs which I may ever need to reset. I avoid programming CVs with the handset too. I change them in JMRI then send them to the loco, even when programming on the main, so this maintains a record of what they are. I have also changed the file location in JMRI, so my roster is stored on a server which gets backed up, not a local hard drive which doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Radish Posted June 11, 2020 Author Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Ok i feel so stupid, the digikeijs dr5000 software has a built in backup and restore feature from a csv file! both on POM and PROG track. Edited June 11, 2020 by Graham Radish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 09/06/2020 at 09:28, Nigelcliffe said: ... Its impossible, because changing the actual sound elements requires Zimo programming hardware (or a Roco Z21 which includes that hardware). ... Nigel Just to clarify the Z21 allows the reprogramming of Zimo decoders that have been purchased from Roco, but not Zimo decoders that you buy direct from Zimo or retailers. Quote Only Zimo decoder types sold by Roco can be updated – both decoder firmware and sound projects Z21 Maintenance Program Manual Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 1 hour ago, WIMorrison said: Nigel Just to clarify the Z21 allows the reprogramming of Zimo decoders that have been purchased from Roco, but not Zimo decoders that you buy direct from Zimo or retailers. Are you referring to sound decoders only? I've updated loads of Zimo decoders (MX621, MX622, MX618N18) non of which where bought from or branded Roco. If you ignore the warnings in the Z21 maintenance programs it will go ahead and update most. Interestingly although MX617 is listed in the latest decoder update files it fails every time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Interesting, I have never managed to get it to update any decoder files at all, let alone the MX617. I will try again this afternoon and see if I can have some success Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 OK, I have now tried using the Z21 Maint Program to update a MX617 - fail, MX622 - fail, MX838 fail It would appear that I 'might' be able to 'force' an update by unchecking the box for CV Verification but I would rather not do that and will just accept what Roco say in their documentation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Hi, That's strange, this past week I updated all my MX617, MX618, & MX622's with the Z21 maintenance program with no issues. If I try to update an MX621 I get an error message saying it's not supported. The only warning I get is at the very beginning when it says to make sure that CV144 is set correctly, and an occasional timeout for bad contact. On my Dapol Pacer which has pretty bad contact I did uncheck the CV verification box but not on any of the others. What error message did you get Iain? Also I have never purchased a decoder from Roco, so I believe that you can reprogram any Zimo decoder that Roco re-sell, regardless of where it was purchased. For it to be any other way the decoder would have to have a CV programmed somewhere to indicate that it was bought from Roco. The biggest issue I had was working out how to maximise the maintenance app window because it always started up minimized. I wonder if it's something to do with the Z21 & Maintenance App software revisions? Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, jpendle said: I wonder if it's something to do with the Z21 & Maintenance App software revisions? Let's compare notes. I'm sucessfully upgrading decoder firmware using a Z21 (black) which itself has firmware version 1.33 . The decoder firmware is from file Roco_Z21_200110.zsu. The version of Z21 Maintenance Tool is v1.14 build 1663 running on Windows 10 64 bit. I'm connecting using the program track output. Cheers Dave Edited June 11, 2020 by DaveArkley Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) Dave, I'm using Z21 (Black) firmware version 1.32, the hardware in settings shows Z21a. I'm also sing the Program Track output. I've used an earlier decoder update file and the latest one Roco_Z21_200110.zsu, and both worked with the MX617,618, & 622 but not with the MX621. I'm also using v1.14 build 1663 of the Maintenance tool on Windows 10 64 bit. Also the Maintenance app has a list of supported decoders and the MX617 is in the list but the MX621 is not. Regards, John P Edited June 11, 2020 by jpendle Clarity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 @jpendle - I am using firmware v1.33 with 1.14 maint program and the same zsu file, and as I say - no luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 A bit more checking may reveal the reason why I cannot update any of my decoders - they ALL have a subversion number greater than that contained in the Zimo file. e.g. the MX617 in the Zimo upgrade file is for subversion 8, all my MX617 are subversion 9 and 10, for the MX638 the Mimo file version is 8 and my decoders are on subversion 10. The same applies to my other decoders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Hi Iain, If you have this update file, Roco_Z21_200110.zsu, then the latest software for the MX617, 618, & 622 is 39.0. If my memory serves me, my MX617's and 618's were at 37.8 before I updated them. BTW two weeks ago I did a Google search for the Zimo decoder update page and I managed to get to an old page from 2018, so I was using this file (DS180718.zip) by mistake. Regards, John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 Arggghhh - it looks like I picked up the old file also I will ret again tomorrow with the file you have used, assuming I can find it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 14 minutes ago, WIMorrison said: Arggghhh - it looks like I picked up the old file also I will ret again tomorrow with the file you have used, assuming I can find it! Glad it's not just me who does things like that John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 15 hours ago, jpendle said: I'm using Z21 (Black) firmware version 1.32, the hardware in settings shows Z21a. I'm also sing the Program Track output. John, So we have different hardware (mine is Z21b) and firmware. Does the 1.33 firmware not work for the Z21a or is there another reason you are not using it? Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Reporting back with a modicum of success (and heart back out of mouth). During the update process 2 locos (both with MX622 decoders) failed, one catastrophically although after several attempts at the hard rest procedure posted here I managed to force an update by unchecking the box to check CVs and it recovered all the settings I have two decoder types that try as I might they will not update, MX638 and MX617 which have a type of 177, those with a type of 197 updated successfully. I have 2 locos with MX638 and 3 with type 177 MX617 and the update failed on all of them ergo I think it is a definite decoder/updater issue. The other 16 locos all update successfully - and one Lenz fitted loco that I placed on the track (I thought it had a MX617) failed - good to know that it didn't wreck the Lenz decoder though What I have noticed after the update is that I now need to re-profile the speed measurement on all the locos as the top speeds are slightly different by around 5% forwards, but much the same in reverse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Iain, are you using the Roco specific download file from zimo for the Z21? I loaded ‘Roco_Z21_200110.zsu’ into the maintenance tool and was able to reprogram all my MX600 decoders to the latest firmware version without a problem. Like you i am using Z21 black with firmware 1.33 regards Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) It would appear that the Z21, using the Z21 specific .zsu file, can be used to program zimo decoders that have not been bought from Roco if they are of a type that Roco sell. Nick Edited June 12, 2020 by NickC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpendle Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 5 hours ago, DaveArkley said: John, So we have different hardware (mine is Z21b) and firmware. Does the 1.33 firmware not work for the Z21a or is there another reason you are not using it? Cheers Dave Hi, I just haven't got round to it. I've been trying to update the Z21 with the Updater app on my iphone, but I just can't get it to do anything other than spin a wheel on the screen I may just give in and use the Maintenance app instead. John P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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