LMS 46100-1950 condition

[rodent279]

Can anyone tell me which livery 46100 would have carried in March 1950, prior to rebuilding? It went into Crewe in April 1950, and came out in rebuilt form in June.

I've seen one photograph of it, at Crewe, awaiting attention, but it is not precisely dated other than 1949/50. In this photo, it carries 1946 black, with 46100 on the cabside. The tender isn't visible, so could have been carrying either BRITISH RAILWAYS, or the early BR crest.

 

Cheers N

[Steamport Southport]

Almost certainly still had British Railways. I doubt they would have put crests on it if it was due a rebuild.

 

Photo here dated 1948. And another one in the next photo.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p701818446/e30036ed4

 

 

There's also one in the same livery dated May 1949 but I can't link to it.

 

 

Jason

Edited July 2, 2020 by Steamport Southport

[cctransuk]

25 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Almost certainly still had British Railways. I doubt they would have put crests on it if it was due a rebuild.

 

Photo here dated 1948. And another one in the next photo.

 

https://railphotoprints.uk/p701818446/e30036ed4

 

 

There's also one in the same livery dated May 1949 but I can't link to it.

 

 

Jason

 

To my eyes, rather than the plain BR Gill Sans, the BRITISH RAILWAYS and 46100 appear to be in the LMS style as latterly applied to black express passenger locos - I seem to recall that it involved cream with a maroon outline, or something similar.

 

John Isherwood.

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, cctransuk said:

 

To my eyes, rather than the plain BR Gill Sans, the BRITISH RAILWAYS and 46100 appear to be in the LMS style as latterly applied to black express passenger locos - I seem to recall that it involved cream with a maroon outline, or something similar.

 

John Isherwood.

 

Yes. It's still in 1946 livery.

 

I take it this is the photo referred to. Some details in the caption.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p106104590/e15a8de12

 

Quote

In well worn 1946 livery - just a few months from rebuilding
Colin Ryder has done some detective work -
This photo shows 46100 in the 1946 LMS black livery with maroon bands edged in white. The numerals are of the short-lived 1948 BLOCK style applied by BR LMR until late 1948 when the transfers of the Gill Sans numerals became available from August onwards.
The caption "In well-worn 1946 livery - just a few months from rebuilding" is a little vague; I hope to show that there was an intermediate stage in the cabside livery prior to rebuilding.

The 1946 LMS black livery would have been applied of course with the four figure 6100 in 12" numerals, at a works visit either in November 1946, or August 1947. The loco was re-numbered to 46100 during a Heavy General (HG) repair w/e 19 June 1948,[dates from Book of the Royal Scots, ed.Chris Hawkins, Irwell Press, 1999, p.38]. Presumably very soon after this it was photographed by Eric Treacy leaving Chester on a train to Holyhead in remarkably clean condition, with the 46100 cabside number in 10" 1948 BLOCK numerals as here [Fowler Locomotives, Brian Haresnape, Ian Allan, 1981, p.88].

The loco was rebuilt with taper boiler during April to June 1950. However, there are other photographs taken prior to April 1950 of the loco still in 1946 LMS black livery but with the cabside numerals in 8" Gill Sans style! The earliest I have found is on David Hey's Collection 2 website, link "BR LMR-1" (scroll down to 1/4 stage), a photo attributed to J Habart and captioned "at Crewe (station) in May 1949"!
When might this intermediate repainting of the cabside have been carried out? Chris Hawkins, op.cit.lists three visits to works: a Light Ordinary(LO) repair 10 November - 11 December 1948, a Light Intermediate(LI) one 1 - 26 April 1949 and a Non-Classified(NC) one 13 - 21 May 1949. Your photo presumably shows the loco waiting at Crewe (Works?) prior to one of these visits. Without some more dated photos taken between these visits to works or a set of locoman's notes emerging, speculation is all that remains.

 

 

Also notice the GWR Pannier....

 

 

 

 

Jason

[rodent279]

25 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Yes. It's still in 1946 livery.

 

I take it this is the photo referred to. Some details in the caption.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p106104590/e15a8de12

 

 

 

Also notice the GWR Pannier....

 

 

 

 

Jason

Yes, that's the one I've seen. Looks filthy too, so it's a fairly good guess that it was taken in April 1950, immediately prior to entering works for rebuilding.

Thanks.

[Steamport Southport]

I'm wondering whether it's at Derby rather than Crewe. Or waiting transporting to Derby.

 

I know some of the Panniers were overhauled at Derby in 1950.

 

https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p41033644/h6826075A#h6826075a

 

This suggests it was at Crewe then was seen at Derby being rebuilt.

 

http://brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=locodata&type=S&id=446011001&loco=6100

 

 

 

Jason