RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 A sheet of tinfoil connected to the earth of your soldering iron should be ok. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Please understand the term "woke" has serious racial implications and it has been commandeered by certain political factions in the US as a code word. It's basically an insult with racist undertones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke 4 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 58 minutes ago, AndyID said: Mind you, in the time it takes to make the tool I could probably have filed a lot of the rails but then I wouldn't get to play with the machine-tools so what would be the fun in that? "Because I can" is, like Rule 1, a cover-all justification for just about anything. It is in fact a variant of Rule 1. 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) Railway Enthusiasts Disease is a complicated and incurable condition that exhibits many different symptoms among different sufferers. As ID has said these can involve being worried about what shade of green to paint Kettles and the less severe version which likes them in a shade of maroon. After much study I have formed the opinion that the disease is incurable but that long term palliative care can be administered by ensuring that the sufferer is exposed to the objects that he/she craves at frequent intervals. Jamie Edited January 16, 2022 by jamie92208 3 7 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 6 minutes ago, rodent279 said: A sheet of tinfoil connected to the earth of your soldering iron should be ok. You might thinks so, but given the right set of circumstances it it can actually make things worse 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, SM42 said: Severe cases of Pannier Syndrome, need sympathetic handling and it has been found that aversion therapy often yields good results. Andy The only known cure for severe Pannier Syndrome is repeated exposure to YouTube video of a class 40 (EE type 4 if you prefer) 8 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM42 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, AndyID said: You might thinks so, but given the right set of circumstances it it can actually make things worse You could just work in the naturist style, grabbing the water pipe or other earth just to make sure, as you enter the workshop. Quite what the locals would think I wouldn't care to speculate Andy 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM42 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 9 minutes ago, rodent279 said: The only known cure for severe Pannier Syndrome is repeated exposure to YouTube video of a class 40 (EE type 4 if you prefer) But surely this is reinforcing , not treating, PS Andy 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 21 minutes ago, AndyID said: You might thinks so, but given the right set of circumstances it it can actually make things worse How so? Aren't anti-static mats conductive material? Is it because, depending on what you're wearing, you could generate static by rubbing against the foil? Usually I use a wrist strap connected to a radiator pipe, not that I do much semiconductor soldering these days. My anti static mat got damaged and thrown years ago. I am genuinely interested to know. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 28 minutes ago, SM42 said: But surely this is reinforcing , not treating, PS Andy After watching this, I have no desire to watch pannier videos at all, so it works for me! 1 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, rodent279 said: How so? Aren't anti-static mats conductive material? Is it because, depending on what you're wearing, you could generate static by rubbing against the foil? Usually I use a wrist strap connected to a radiator pipe, not that I do much semiconductor soldering these days. My anti static mat got damaged and thrown years ago. I am genuinely interested to know. It's because the foil has a very low resistance. If a large object like you or me is charged to a high potential, when we discharge ourselves by approaching the foil a whopping great current is suddenly going to travel through the foil and the wire ground connection. That rapid change in current will make the wire create an intense magnetic field which could induce destructive voltages in semiconductor devices. If you've ever managed to destroy a piece of electronic equipment by zapping it it's not because the voltage got into the electronics. Its because of electromagnetic coupling produced by the arc. Edit: BTW, that's a small scale version of the EMP produced by nuclear weapons. Edited January 16, 2022 by AndyID 1 6 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, AndyID said: It's because the foil has a very low resistance. If a large object like you or me is charged to a high potential, when we discharge ourselves by approaching the foil a whopping great current is suddenly going to travel through the foil and the wire ground connection. That rapid change in current will make the wire create an intense magnetic field which could induce destructive voltages in semiconductor devices. If you've ever managed to destroy a piece of electronic equipment by zapping it it's not because the voltage got into the electronics. Its because of electromagnetic coupling produced by the arc. Edit: BTW, that's a small scale version of the EMP produced by nuclear weapons. Ok fair enough, thanks. The one time I suspect I've damaged something through ESD was at work some years ago, soldering a TBA820 into an amplifier. I didn't use a wrist strap, although it was on a mat, and as soon as I switched it on, it went bang spectacularly. It actually threw a piece of itself across the lab. It may have been a fault in the chip already present, I don't know. I soldered another in, making sure I was properly grounded, and that was fine. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM42 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, rodent279 said: After watching this, I have no desire to watch pannier videos at all, so it works for me! But if you were rewarded by class 40 videos every time you watched pannier porn? Andy 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 When, more than 40 years ago, I did a bit of messing about w chips, the wisdom at the time suggested that 74-series TTL was pretty well protected, but the newer 4xxx series CMOS wasn't, so I stuck to the former. I'm not sure I ever made much that worked, either way. A couple of years ago I upgraded the solid-state storage in a MacBook Air, from 128 GB to 480 GB. I used a wrist strap secured to the earth pin of a mains socket, and all was well. French sockets are really useful like that, having an earth pin sticking out, with a hole in the plug, rather than the earth pin being on the plug as in UK electrics. In truth my knowledge of basic electronics is nil - ask me the difference between NPN and PNP transistors and I haven't a clue. So I was quite pleased some time ago to answer a Uni Challenge question that the teams couldn't. For some reason I knew exactly what MOSFET stood for - Metal-Oxide Semiconductor Field-Effect Transistor. Back to our trainspotter brains holding on to info that has zero practical purpose! 9 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 CMOS is more sensitive to static damage than TTL but TTL isn't invincible. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold rodent279 Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, Oldddudders said: So I was quite pleased some time ago to answer a Uni Challenge question that the teams couldn't. For some reason I knew exactly what MOSFET stood for - Metal-Oxide Semiconductor Field-Effect Transistor Well done! Also known as IGFET's - Insulated Gate Field Effect Transistor. They behave in a similar manner to thermionic valves, except that the medium carrying the charge flow is semiconductor rather than a vacuum or an inert gas. My electronics lecturer at college was brought up on thermionic valves, and had no problems with understanding FET's, but couldn't quite get his head around (BJT's Bipolar Junction Transistors-traditional NPN or PNP transistors). 7 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslow Boy Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 37 minutes ago, SM42 said: But if you were rewarded by class 40 videos every time you watched pannier porn? Andy I do believe you are a suitable candidate for Missionary work. Go forth and spread the word. The bretherin are in sore need of the gospel. 1 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave Hunt Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2022 10 hours ago, Florence Locomotive Works said: Messrs D.M. Bodger & Co decided it was a worthy day to take celebratory photos of the engine and the builder, in the snow in 20 degree weather. So the builder was dragged out of his hole and put in period clothing. Management said he looks as though he’s just seen a pannier wearing red. Douglas Heres the nice part though. Looks like it could do with a snowplough before too long Douglas (the locomotive that is, not your attire). Dave 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave Hunt Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 hour ago, rodent279 said: A sheet of tinfoil connected to the earth of your soldering iron should be ok. For a moment there I thought that you were advocating the wearing of a tinfoil hat but then realised that the recent references to woke and panniers had pushed my thoughts down that road. Dave 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave Hunt Posted January 16, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, rodent279 said: Well done! Also known as IGFET's - Insulated Gate Field Effect Transistor. They behave in a similar manner to thermionic valves, except that the medium carrying the charge flow is semiconductor rather than a vacuum or an inert gas. My electronics lecturer at college was brought up on thermionic valves, and had no problems with understanding FET's, but couldn't quite get his head around (BJT's Bipolar Junction Transistors-traditional NPN or PNP transistors). And in English.......? I never realised how complicated soldering could be. It seems that my choice to eschew DCC was the correct one for reasons I didn't even know about! Dave Edited January 16, 2022 by Dave Hunt 2 2 1 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted January 16, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 11 hours ago, jamie92208 said: Just one problem as earthing myself before handling the chips may be tricky. No central heating radistor and the water pipe is 20 yards away across the shed. It was quite theraputic doing lots of small joints with a 15w iron. My finger ends got cold during the evening session by 8.15 so it was time to give up. Jamie The proscribed method of ensuring a good grounding to avoid the effect of a rather large electrostatic 'belt' when working underslung loads from helicopters was a 'probe' attached to a long chain that was in contact with the ground. The 'probe' was actually a hook shape so you could get a positive contact with the hook under the airframe. The chain was just that, but quite a weight so there was little risk of it being picked up and thrown around by the downdraft. I got quite good at collecting the charge on occasions from the likes of a Puma, although one of my lads was not so lucky and was thrown/blown off the top of a Spartan (CVRT) when the hook missed and he connected with the unearthed strop under the Chinook. Interestingly, the use of a 'probe' was not required when working with Fleet Air Arm helicopters, as as they had built in static discharge. The question that had to be asked was if they could fit them to Navy assets, then why not RAF and AAC helicopters? When you are found by French Police chained naked to a radiator in your cellar, Beth will claim that you always solder like that. 1 1 13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted January 16, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 2 hours ago, AndyID said: Please understand the term "woke" has serious racial implications and it has been commandeered by certain political factions in the US as a code word. It's basically an insult with racist undertones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke That's very interesting as my interpretation of Woke from a UK perspective seems to be a term describing those who are permanently offended by matters that they want other people to be offended by, when those other people have not the slightest bit of interest in being offended in the first place. However, far more toxic is the 'Cancel Culture' where you can be ridiculed, castigated and even forced out of your job because you hold a valid opinion which is seen as contrary to what you 'should believe'. You are only entitled to an opinion if it conforms to what the mob want. 3 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DenysW Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Mr. H, I have to ask. Is "You are only entitled to an opinion if it conforms to what the mob want" a contribution to the Crimson Lake pannier tanks debate? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted January 16, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 55 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said: And in English.......? I never realised how complicated soldering could be. It seems that my choice to eschew DCC was the correct one for reasons I didn't even know about! Dave I only went for DCC because I was told that you needed to have lots of chips and it was easy to fry them. 1 1 14 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Happy Hippo Posted January 16, 2022 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2022 1 minute ago, DenysW said: Mr. H, I have to ask. Is "You are only entitled to an opinion if it conforms to what the mob want" a contribution to the Crimson Lake pannier tanks debate? I am an army of one, fighting an uphill battle against railway modellers who would baulk at the thought of hippopotami being seen as their equals or heaven forbid, their superiors when it came to modelling skills and wisdom. Besides, the GWR used Crimson lake for their coaching stock during a short period at the beginning of the 20th century, and at the risk of being castigated, abused and drummed out of employment, I think it looked far better than the chocolate and cream we tend to be more familiar with. Although the 57xx panniers looked good in the LT livery, I don't think it would have suited the later larger cabbed variants. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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