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Hi all,

 

This is a bit of a diversion but hopefully one which will prove an enjoyable foray into slightly unknown territory. 
 

I have for a while been drawn to scales larger than 7mm and have decided to dip my toe into Gauge One. Right from the start I will say this is 1/32 or 9.525mm:ft rather than 10mm to the foot. I have the space to ‘go outside’ with it but probably won’t get ‘planning permission’! So I’m consigning myself at the moment to a stand alone showcase model. In this case a Midland double bolster wagon. Reasonably simple construction and with a log load should look quite charming. I plan on presenting it in absolute ex-works condition so no weathering at all. This is an excerpt from Midland Wagons Vol 1 and shows one built to Dia 339.

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Construction has tentatively begun by machining up sections of timber for (top to bottom) solebars, headstocks, sides, ends, strip for end supports, strip for underframe bracing, blanks for the bolsters. I’m waiting for some 2mm laser ply to arrive before cutting the floor with engraved plank grooves. 
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I’ve also raided Slaters stores department for the tricky bits ie wheels, axleboxes, springs, buffers, brake gear and W iron etches and couplings. So it should be a fairly straightforward introduction for me. Unsure at the moment how much accurate detail will be made beneath the wagon, we shall see. 
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And lastly as you can see I have purchased a length of track and started on a display base edged in oak. This level of detail really deserves careful painting and weathering even of the track. 
 

Finally my thanks go to @Compound2632 for his invaluable help needed with sketches and construction notes even before starting to cut timber! 
 

More anon. 

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Edited by Tricky
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As @Tricky and I have discussed, this D339/D339A wagon is less straightforward than it looks (though not in the class of the D310 trolley @airnimal's building) - but most of the uncertainty is in the bits one would only see if the villain had the upper hand:

image.png.131bfe6579cc275bac381af40ce917e1.png

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When it comes to representing nuts and bolts on the solebar and elsewhere, they seem to be 3/4” thread with a nut of say about an inch across give or take. What are your thoughts on representing these? I wonder if @airnimal knows of a suitable product? In this scale an inch is 0.8mm. 

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9 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

16 BA?

 

The tapping hole for such is 0.6 mm

 

or

 

.60 UNM (Unified Miniature Thread) series

Ooh err...as in REAL nuts and bolts?!

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Most of the bolts on the solebar - securing the axleguards etc - are ⅞". Corner plates ½", end pillars and side knees ⅝". 

It's only the major longitudinal strengthening bolts that ate ¾". (This is from drawings of other Midland wagons.)

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3 minutes ago, Tricky said:

Ooh err...as in REAL nuts and bolts?!

But of course, you start delving into 1/32 Scale and it's micrometers at dawn if you err from anything other than totally miniaturised construction techniques.

Edited by Happy Hippo
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I'm seriously confused by Gauge 1, not least by Slaters offering kits at both ⅜ in/ft (9.53 mm/ft) and 10 mm/ft scales. I understand that the track gauge was originally 1¾ in (44.45 mm) but is now 45 mm. At ⅜ in/ft scale, dead scale gauge would be 44.85 mm; at 10 mm/ft, 47.08 mm. Would it therefore be correct to understand that ⅜ in/ft is the "finescale" scale?

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Tricky, I can only point you in the direction of where I obtain my cosmetic nuts and bolts from.

I don't know if they will be large enough but I get mine from Historex. I am not clever enough to put a link on here but if you go to 

Historex and click on brands at the top right hand side, then Masterclub rivets nuts and bolts on the left hand column you will be able to see all the sizes there.

There mail order service is first class.

Mike

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm seriously confused by Gauge 1, not least by Slaters offering kits at both ⅜ in/ft (9.53 mm/ft) and 10 mm/ft scales. I understand that the track gauge was originally 1¾ in (44.45 mm) but is now 45 mm. At ⅜ in/ft scale, dead scale gauge would be 44.85 mm; at 10 mm/ft, 47.08 mm. Would it therefore be correct to understand that ⅜ in/ft is the "finescale" scale?

Well that’s my newbie understanding. I’m building to 3/8” or 1/32 or 9.525/ft. Theoretically not going anywhere near 10mm/‘ unless I have to at some point in the future for particular parts. But if I stick to Midland prototypes then I’m ok with Slaters who seem to refer to their stuff as 1/32. I’m content however with the track gauge slightly off - 45mm is close enough for me and is closer than Finescale O Gauge. 

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm seriously confused by Gauge 1 

From my e-book on gauge & Scale:

1-gauge or gauge 1 or “Spur I” was the smallest gauge when standard gauges were introduced by Märklin in 1891. Nowadays it is generally considered the largest gauge for model trains. It was introduced at a gauge of 48 mm measured from the middle of the rails. The measurement between the rails, which is the normal way of measurement nowadays, gives a gauge of 45 mm. In the beginning only toy trains were made, but when trains modelled to a prototype started to be introduced a scale of 10 mm to the foot (in the UK) or 1:30 (in continental Europe) was used, both about the same at 5% too large for the gauge. In the USA 1-gauge had some popularity until the nineteen twenties. When Lionel introduced their Standard Gauge, 1-gauge virtually disappeared. In the thirties 1-gauge also virtually disappeared from the European scene being pushed aside by the popularity of 0-gauge. In the fifties in the UK the G1MRA (Gauge 1 Model Railway Association) kept using the gauge, mainly for running live steam. In the late sixties Märklin re-introduced the gauge in their product range. Märklin used the (correct) scale of 1:32 and this scale is used now generally outside the UK. In the UK both 1:32, especially for ready-made products, and 10 mm to the foot, for scratch and part of the kit building, is used.

 

My e-book can be read or downloaded for free here: http://sncf231e.nl/gauge-and-scale/

 

Regards

Fred

 

 

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4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

As @Tricky and I have discussed, this D339/D339A wagon is less straightforward than it looks (though not in the class of the D310 trolley @airnimal's building) - but most of the uncertainty is in the bits one would only see if the villain had the upper hand:

image.png.131bfe6579cc275bac381af40ce917e1.png

Bits, eh!?

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11 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

I'm seriously confused by Gauge 1, not least by Slaters offering kits at both ⅜ in/ft (9.53 mm/ft) and 10 mm/ft scales. I understand that the track gauge was originally 1¾ in (44.45 mm) but is now 45 mm. At ⅜ in/ft scale, dead scale gauge would be 44.85 mm; at 10 mm/ft, 47.08 mm. Would it therefore be correct to understand that ⅜ in/ft is the "finescale" scale?

Most gauge 1 modellers seem to use 10mm scale (chosen no doubt because of an all too human love of round numbers) but 3/8" scale looks a lot better. 10mm is a long way down the 00 gauge road  - for no reason whatsoever, clearances aren't a problem in 3/8" scale.

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There is quite a lot of information on my website, not updated for yonks but full of "history" and my own journey into the sale, see:

 

https://www.titfield.co.uk/one32mod/Modindex.htm

 

I really like the wagon chosen, and great the op is applying his considerable skills to this lovely scale/gauge combination.

 

I'm a bit of a heathen in that I mostly use styrene for building stuff, Grandt line bits are good for nutty stuff.

 

I shall watch with interest, I'm currently bilding a "Toad E" myself, slowly of course...

 

Churrs!

 

Not Jeremy

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Is it just me, or is it slightly ironic that, if I am reading the above posts correctly, continental G1 modellers are using what amounts to an imperial scale of 1:32 and the only place where the vaguely odd 10mm : ft is used is the UK?

 

Dave

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I think it was Greenly who set up the whole 10mm abberation - G1MRA decided to pursue it after the war, heaven knows why.

 

One of the things that G1MRA never talks/talked about in that context was that Alex Jackson (yes, him) had created a wonderful G1 model railway and models in 3/8 scale at the time, proving that it was entirely do-able and much better looking.

 

And then there is all the fun of the "standard standard" - model railways for Monty Python really....

 

 

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Tricky said:

Well that’s my newbie understanding. I’m building to 3/8” or 1/32 or 9.525/ft. Theoretically not going anywhere near 10mm/‘ unless I have to at some point in the future for particular parts. But if I stick to Midland prototypes then I’m ok with Slaters who seem to refer to their stuff as 1/32. I’m content however with the track gauge slightly off - 45mm is close enough for me and is closer than Finescale O Gauge. 

1 3/4" gauge was G1, but the metric translation of that is 44.45 mm, so you can imagine trying to spit that out in Teutonic.

 

No wonder they opted for 45 mm gauge!:lol:

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20 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

1 3/4" gauge was G1, but the metric translation of that is 44.45 mm, so you can imagine trying to spit that out in Teutonic.

 

No wonder they opted for 45 mm gauge!:lol:

 

Well, 45 mm is closer to dead scale at 1/32 - only 0.15 mm over, whereas 1.75" is 0.40 mm under - but still a good deal closer than EM.

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3 hours ago, Not Jeremy said:

I think it was Greenly who set up the whole 10mm abberation - G1MRA decided to pursue it after the war, heaven knows why.

 

One of the things that G1MRA never talks/talked about in that context was that Alex Jackson (yes, him) had created a wonderful G1 model railway and models in 3/8 scale at the time, proving that it was entirely do-able and much better looking.

 

And then there is all the fun of the "standard standard" - model railways for Monty Python really....

 

 

 

 

 

 

I might have known Greenly was involved - he even did it with the RH&DR in 15in gauge.

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Some progress inbetween other bits and bobs and mopping my brow. 
 

I’ve made little slots on the backs of the solebars using scrap brass to retain the W-irons. I believe this is a common method and works very well. The W-irons are a push fit and will need no further permanent fixing, but will be removed for final painting. Usefully, the springs have locating pips in the backs so it’s simply a case of fitting them first and then push the W-irons into the slots until they stop against the spring shackles. 
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I’ve also assembled the axleboxes and given them and the wheels a first coat of black. 

 

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Lastly a first coat of a rather hideous rust colour to the rails. Do not fear- it won’t stay this way!

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More to follow....

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And as my 2mm laserply arrived today, I pressed on with assembling the floor, sides, ends, headstocks and end pillars. 
 

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23 hours ago, airnimal said:

Tricky, I can only point you in the direction of where I obtain my cosmetic nuts and bolts from.

I don't know if they will be large enough but I get mine from Historex. I am not clever enough to put a link on here but if you go to 

Historex and click on brands at the top right hand side, then Masterclub rivets nuts and bolts on the left hand column you will be able to see all the sizes there.

There mail order service is first class.

Mike

And I have just ordered 4 different size nuts and bolts. That should keep me going -  or do my head in....

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Some small progress today. I’ve given the track another dirt coat, will be able to move on to the sleepers next and then ballast. 
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I’ve also made a start on detailing the body, whilst waiting for the bolts to arrive. I’ll tackle the corner plates in two pieces. 
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Lastly I thought it would be a good idea to clad the solebars in plasticard to replicate the iron cladding of the prototype. Probably totally unnecessary but there you go! 
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Beautiful work Richard, great to see some decent G1 modelling!

 

Re the solebars, I hesitate to say, but thought they were timber on your wagon, in common with most Midland wagons.

 

It will make the build easier......

 

This wagon is featured the Midland Record  wagons special, if you haven't got your own copy I'll happily drop one in the post to you!

 

Simon

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