Gill Head: Kirkby Luneside's neighbour

[Physicsman]

26 minutes ago, Donw said:

Terrific job on the viaduct. I hve always belived that the closer you get to the building methods that would have been used on a real viaduct the better the result you are proving it. Mind you I think you don't need to bother with the scaffolding although leaving holes where the scaffolding fitted is a plus. Elsewhere someone was trying to bend preformed plastic stone walling, that is going to be difficult to get right. I like the height of the viaduct too. 

 

Don

 

Evening Don.

 

The holes will actually be filled in - the legacy of the builders was a series of stubs, or protrusions, just below the springer course on some of the piers. I haven't made any stones of the right size or shape yet, hence the gaps. For once, thanks to Old Gringo (John Wardle), I'm ahead of the game!

 

Arten Gill is about 117 feet from gill to parapet, so a good 47cm in 4mm. It does make for a sizeable model. 

 

Jeff

Edited December 22, 2020 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Thought this might be of interest....

 

 

[Donw]

5 hours ago, Physicsman said:

 

Evening Don.

 

The holes will actually be filled in - the legacy of the builders was a series of stubs, or protrusions, just below the springer course on some of the piers. I haven't made any stones of the right size or shape yet, hence the gaps. For once, thanks to Old Gringo (John Wardle), I'm ahead of the game!

 

Arten Gill is about 117 feet from gill to parapet, so a good 47cm in 4mm. It does make for a sizeable model. 

 

Jeff

 

It makes one think when the tallest tree in England just a short drive from us was 60.05metres when last measured way above your viaduct.  put that on a layout and it would look silly. Mind you I dont think any trees would get anywhere near that on the Cumbrian fells. 

 

Don

[jukebox]

7 hours ago, Physicsman said:

 

I've put another 300 stones on today, which in the context of the number remaining isn't great. *snip*

 

Jeff

 

It's to be expected at Christmas time, Jeff.  All that cake and pudding.

 

Might want to lay off the eggnog a bit...  

 

 

Viaduct stonework is looking great.  My 2c (p?) on the colour echoes Jason (and what I've always used as my mantra): base it on the real thing, or photographs of.  I see the brown tone he is talking about in most of the photos online - but concede it could appear different in real life.

 

I was amazed at the variety of tones in the abutments at Monkwearmouth when I went to paint my model - but once done, they looked "right".  If you can find some close-up or hi-rez shots of AG that you can zoom in on, that should give you a palette to work with.  When you look at close ups, there is a surprising variety of shades to the stonework in any of the S&C viaducts - and picking these out on individual stones would "lift" the finish on yours.

 

I know you have said you aren't going to be slavish about it - but you're also striving to improve with each iteration, so it would be a shame to look at it in a year or three, and feel compromised...

 

Anyway - seasons salutations to you and yours. Be sure to enjoy yourself!

 

Cheers

 

Scott

 

[Physicsman]

Nice to see you back on here, Scott.

 

When I imply I'm not bothered I really mean I'll do things to the best of my ability and if anyone complains then they are welcome to try and improve on it themselves.

 

However, as you are very aware, I enjoy receiving constructive criticism - comments with a bit of lateral thinking or a suggestion based on personal experience. Your countryman, Colin from Melbourne, has been responsible for the literal shift in my colour perception re. the greys on Arten Gill - see earlier posts. This means the arch liner colour is the best match, in my opinion, to the available evidence I currently have to hand. I'm very happy with that grey with a sandy tint.

 

I'll be up at Arten Gill next year, so I can check, again, for myself. Should I be unhappy, I can re-mix a colour batch and re-do the viaduct in a couple of days. Compared to the 3 months it will have taken from start to finish, I can live with that. 

 

For any new(er) readers, Scott is another input guru who has made me think about a lot of things I'd previously taken for granted. Between us, as with - for example, Jason - we may not know the best answer or what is "right". But we can work out ways to improve on what has been done.

 

At the end of the day, this is a hobby to be enjoyed. I am aware that one of the criticisms levelled at RMweb is that it's full of pompous twits, know-it-alls who take themselves far too seriously.

 

I think the Lunesters have always aimed to do their best, listened to criticism and acknowledged where advice led to improvements. Bill, if you are looking-in, I DID understand your L-girder criticisms. Sometimes it's very easy to go your own way and that sometimes doesn't work.

 

The viaduct is something I want to LOOK right. I will listen to comments, and some of them are SO right that I need to change things. Colour isn't subjective at all, if the conditions the object is situated in remain constant. Viaducts on the S&C don't have that luxury. We try our best, and hope we're happy it works!!

 

I'm just going to post this up, without re-reading it. I hope it makes sense!

 

Jeff

Edited December 23, 2020 by Physicsman
Only ONE spelling correction - amazing!

[Andrew P]

Morning Young Jeff, I'm not going to comment on Stone colour as I know your not ready to think that far ahead just yet. But one thought has gone through my tiny brain cell, and that is, would the colour of the central part of the Arch inner top be an original colour, as that has never had direct wind, rain, sunlight, bird sh1te, moss etc?

 

I do love the up shots, that is going to make for some great photos, but you do need a blue ceiling. haha.

[Neilgue]

Hi Jeff, re the stone colour:

As I near the end of an advanced diploma in photography I have picked up some snippets about colour theory. The main one being that you will never be able to reproduce colour exactly without a taking a whole lot of trouble along the way. 
The colour of the scene depends on the lighting conditions- sun, clouds, shade, the colour of surrounding objects (think of the seasonal change of the colour of vegetation) and more.

There  are manual camera settings for that, but how good is the calibration of your camera sensor?

Then you have to consider the colour reproduction on your computer monitor. You will be amazed at the change you get when you calibrate a brand new monitor. Especially when you thought it looked ok in the first place. 
And then you have the same thing if you produce prints. The printer at the local shops may have been calibrated at some stage, but you can be sure that it isn’t now. And won’t be until it becomes so much out of whack that people start to complain.

And then you need a calibrated eye to mix the paints to match the photos.

And of course you need to think about the lamps you are going to use to illuminate the finished model...

In short, it’s a fascinating Pandora’s can of worms to dive into,

and with your background I think you would find it very interesting. 
For what it is worth, if I wanted to capture reasonably accurate colour in camera, I would shoot RAW files, include a grey card in the shot and use it do a manual colour balance in the editing software.  
Or you could just shoot JPEG, manually select the most appropriate light balance setting on the camera and further refine with a grey card in editing. 
But enough of the geekery. You are already following the correct path - you do whatever feels right for you. 
 

Cheers, Neil

 

Oh, and Merry Christmas and a Good New Year to you and all who follow you. 
(We get there a few hours before you do...)

Edited December 23, 2020 by Neilgue
It’s Christmas.

[Physicsman]

Hi Neil.

 

Thanks for your post. I'm a Physicist and long-time amateur photographer. You may not be aware, but of my passions - other than building layouts, garden design, reading and music - probably my MAJOR interest is astronomy. 

 

Planetary, and especially high resolution lunar photography has been an obsession for the last 6 years. This generally uses high speed video sampling, but anything with a DSLR is done straight to RAW to avoid compression, with GIF for manipulation and JPEG for posting on here!

 

You are spot on re. Colour. In the laboratory / darkroom ( yes, I'm ancient enough to have processed black and white prints and colour slides) things can be controlled. But as I pointed out in a previous post, with external objects - such as viaducts exposed to CONTINUALLY changing lighting conditions (even on a good day in the UK) - almost every image can appear different. I reckon - and I will try this when I go to Arten Gill next year - that if I took an image of the same spot on a King pier every minute for an hour, then looked at the RGB of the same spot, there'd be a considerable variation.

 

SO, it comes down to "feeling" and subjective judgement, a viewer's perception of an average of many pics. I think my paint mix is one of MANY that could be judged acceptable. 

 

Great to hear about what you are doing. Please share any comments you feel relevant to any topic. It's funny, but Australia and Canada provide me with some of the more reasoned input on here. Then there's that guy in Chester (Jason), and Pompey (Andy)........

 

Colour sense - just look at Andy's Father Christmas gear! 

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

13 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Morning Young Jeff, I'm not going to comment on Stone colour as I know your not ready to think that far ahead just yet. But one thought has gone through my tiny brain cell, and that is, would the colour of the central part of the Arch inner top be an original colour, as that has never had direct wind, rain, sunlight, bird sh1te, moss etc?

 

I do love the up shots, that is going to make for some great photos, but you do need a blue ceiling. haha.

 

Andy, when things are sorted and I'm taking photos I'll rig something up on the wall/ceiling to give a decent background and cut out all the cr@p! 

 

[jacko]

9 hours ago, Physicsman said:

You may not be aware, but of my passions - other than building layouts, garden design, reading and music - probably my MAJOR interest is astronomy. 

 

Jeff

 

Hi Jeff. Long time watcher of your layout threads here. I've a feeling we must have been separated at birth as we share identical interests. I too am an ardent Rush fan (since 1978, Newcastle city hall), garden, read and play in a band. However, it's the astronomy that interests me the most during these dark months. Having moved out of town to a properly dark rural site,  I've just about finished my roll-off-roof shed and just need to get some electricity in there. Once the observatory is set up and working I'll be taking over half my double garage to build my own interpretation of Lazonby having spent a lot of my youth in the area staying with my aunt. Naturally there'll be a viaduct. I doubt it will be as impressive as your model of Arten Gill - probably be based on Armathwaite - but your construction method has certainly given me food for thought.  

 

Graeme

[Physicsman]

Morning Graeme.

 

The whopping HUGE difference - lol - between us is that I didn't get to see Rush until much later. 1992, Sheffield Arena, Roll the Bones tour.

It's amazing how many people on here love that band. Sorely missed.

 

Armathwaite, eh? Good choice. Having used Kirkby Stephen last time, I strongly considered a change to Armathwaite. At least I'll be building the Armathwaite underbridge  (number 324) at the exit from my station. You can't go wrong with the S&C stations and the track layouts are standardised, pure Midland.

 

Good choice with the roll-off observatory. More thermally stable than a dome. As for your viaduct....the underlying construction method is pretty standard - I certainly didn't invent it. But if you can clad it with plastikard, it will save you a huge amount of time. I might have taken that approach here, but having done that in the original KL (about page 20 onwards), and having sorted a brick technique, I thought I'd go truly insane here. Of course, I blame Rob (Teaky) for all of this!! (Not really true!)

 

I'm off for another burst of stoning now....

 

Jeff

[jacko]

I'm not so sure about 'thermally stable'.  It's stood without a roof for at least a month in pretty heavy rain so the timber is going to take a lot of drying. The new roof is corrugated 2mm polycarbonate of some sort and after monday's frost it was dripping heavily inside so I'm going to have to figure some way to stop the condensation. Lucky I have a outboard motor cover over the mount to keep it dry.  

 

This is right now. The roof is heavily frosted inside and out....

 

[Physicsman]

A few more pics to add to the pile. If you think it's deja-vu, please ignore them.

 

Both King piers are now effectively clad. The rear view shows it's not just the front that I'm covering.

 

I've played around with some thin card to work out the size and position of the arch rings - most are slightly different. The pic shows the arrangement for a couple of arches. I will try and build one for real over the next week or so.

 

Best wishes to all viewers for Christmas and the New Year. Thought I'd better add that, otherwise someone will accuse me of being a grumpy git!

 

Jeff

 

 

[Sasquatch]

A merry Christmas to you Jeff.

From the grumpy old git across the pond!

[Andrew P]

Great set of pics Jeff.

 

Merry Christmas to you, your Dad and Brother, and I hope you have a good 2021

[Physicsman]

1 hour ago, Sasquatch said:

A merry Christmas to you Jeff.

From the grumpy old git across the pond!

 

Cheers Shaun. I think grumpy is an age thing. So you won't be quite as grumpy as me!

 

19 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

Great set of pics Jeff.

 

Merry Christmas to you, your Dad and Brother, and I hope you have a good 2021

 

Thanks Andy. Best to you and Dee - she'll be pleased when you take that beard off! 

 

Jeff

Edited December 24, 2020 by Physicsman

[Donw]

Best wishes Jeff.

 

Don

[Rowsley17D]

Merry Christmas to you and yours, Jeff. That viaduct gets better with each photo.

[Physicsman]

All the best to you, Jonathan.

 

Hopefully the viaduct will be (effectively) finished by the end of January. Further challenges lie ahead!

 

Jeff

[Old Gringo]

Happy Christmas, Jeff.

 

Your model of the viaduct is fantastic.  The effort and progress that you're making with this project is frankly amazing (especially to 'armchair' modellers like myself).

 

I believe you have captured the real essence of  the Settle and Carlisle Railway with this model, striding magnificently across the bleak moorland of the 'back-bone' of England.  I can't wait for the next development and eventually to see a train rolling across viewed from standing in the beck will be brilliant.

 

More power to your modelling in 2021.

 

All the very best,

John.

 

 

[Physicsman]

Cheers John.

 

I seem to be following you around. I've just replied to your PM and now caught you on here.

 

I may make up some voussoir stones tomorrow as I'm very keen to  do one arch ring ASAP and see how it looks!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Quite a few things have been done over the last few days, but I'll summarise the main things.

 

More stones added - around 7000 on the piers now.

 

I've been fiddling with arch rings and have worked out the correct radii for the first 5 on the West face. The top of the ring is at the same height on all the arches: 456mm above ply-base level. The radii are adjusted to account for variations in build and the arch-liner brick face.

 

I won't go into details of the ring shapes or how the arch rings are being made - other than the voussoirs are 12mm x 5mm, 3mm thick, sit onto a grey-primed 40thou plastikard backing and there are around 40-45 per ring. It takes me about 90 minutes to build a single arch ring, starting from scratch with the plastikard, a compass and DAS strips.

 

I've attached some pics. Please note that the 2 arch rings aren't fixed in place - I need to finish the brickwork on the arch liners before I fix them.

 

The arch rings also need a light coat of mortar, before painting.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BWsTrains]

On 09/09/2020 at 04:15, Physicsman said:

Arten Gill has always been my favourite....

 

Jeff,

 

Have you seen this?

 

https://youtu.be/BzjV8D8AkFs

 

Colin

[Rowsley17D]

The viaduct is looking great, Jeff, but you're going to need a higher backscene! 

[Physicsman]

1 hour ago, Rowsley17D said:

The viaduct is looking great, Jeff, but you're going to need a higher backscene! 

 

Very true!

 

The cardboard was actually placed behind the viaduct to help with taking photos with my phone. The phone camera autofocus has an annoying habit of focussing on the L-girders in the background - seen through the arches. Bit annoying when it renders the arch rings out of focus!

 

The DSLR will be back in action shortly.

 

In fact, I am probably going to need a full wall background for the numerous photos to be taken. And, as Andy pointed out last week, I need a blue-ish ceiling for the "up" shots.

 

Jeff