Gill Head: Kirkby Luneside's neighbour

[Donington Road]

1 hour ago, Physicsman said:

 

 

I hope those screws don't rust otherwise it may fall apart in a 100 years time

[Ramrig]

Top work Mad Jeff. . 

 

Keep posting the pics its great to see the progress on the viaduct. I for one won't get tired of your photos each day (or two)

 

How many packs of DAS is it going to take to cover the whole viaduct then? 

 

PS. Still looking for a straight jacket on eBay for you  

[Physicsman]

52 minutes ago, Winslow Boy said:

Well if you wanted us to say something all you had to do was ask.

 

So mad person I think the third stone in, on the fifth row, second arch is absolutely wonderful and a definite example of the stone masons skill and dedication. The rest well the less said about them the better.

 

Well you did ask.

 

Excellent job as always Jeff.

 

That's more like it!

 

SEVERE criticism with a sense of humour.

 

Love it! 

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

45 minutes ago, Donington Road said:

 

I hope those screws don't rust otherwise it may fall apart in a 100 years time

 

Seriously, Mick, I thought about building it in 7mm scale as 4mm restricted me to using 4 inch screws. In 7mm I could have used some of AndyP's legendary 8 inch screws and 6 inch nails!

 

Thank heavens for the adhesion provided by the Strong Nuclear force!

 

Jeff

 

[MarshLane]

Jeff,

Wow, I mean ... just wow ....!

 

Stunning work, I said before that KL2 was inspirational, but this is going to be far more so the way your going.  Keep going though, while it may seem boring to you, personally I think even just one picture to show what your doing and how you progressing is worth it each day. It shows how long such a process takes and how it builds up - personally it is all part of the story.  I don't comment every time, but always click the like button ... I keep wanting a wonderful modelling or extraordinary lengths button!  

 

Edit: Just a thought - yes a serious one - have you thought about doing a little video showing how the stones are made, chosen, attached?  For anyone contemplating anything similar it may give some wise council, idea of how to go on .. or convince then to leave well alone!

 

I tend to agree with @Winslow Boy .. the third stone in on the fifth ... yea ok I'll get me coat.

 

Rich

Edited December 8, 2020 by MarshLane
Edit

[Physicsman]

23 minutes ago, Ramrig said:

Top work Mad Jeff. . 

 

Keep posting the pics its great to see the progress on the viaduct. I for one won't get tired of your photos each day (or two)

 

How many packs of DAS is it going to take to cover the whole viaduct then? 

 

PS. Still looking for a straight jacket on eBay for you  

 

Well, Steve, it looks like the "boys" are ganging up on me with sufficient feedback to coerce me into daily reports. I reckon it's a ploy - you're a bunch of slave drivers who just want to check I'm working hard enough! 

 

Mad indeed, but what was I to do? 

 

As for DAS.....I've used 2kg so far, and I think 5kg should be a good estimate by the time I've finished.

 

Then we get on to the walling. You may need to send me that straight jacket at some stage!

 

To paraphrase the old Spencer Davis Group song: "Keep on walling...."

 

 Jeff

 

[MarshLane]

Just now, Physicsman said:

Well, Steve, it looks like the "boys" are ganging up on me with sufficient feedback to coerce me into daily reports. I reckon it's a ploy - you're a bunch of slave drivers who just want to check I'm working hard enough! 

 

Yes ...and obviously by replying on here your not!!!

 

Just now, Physicsman said:

As for DAS.....I've used 2kg so far, and I think 5kg should be a good estimate by the time I've finished.

Jeff

 

Not sure where you get your DAS from ... but have you tried 'The Works' the cheap/discount bookshop? They normally have packs on offer - especially around Christmas - if you need some more.

 

Rich

[Donington Road]

9 minutes ago, Physicsman said:

 

Seriously, Mick, I thought about building it in 7mm scale as 4mm restricted me to using 4 inch screws. In 7mm I could have used some of AndyP's legendary 8 inch screws and 6 inch nails!

 

Thank heavens for the adhesion provided by the Strong Nuclear force!

 

Jeff

 

 

Knowing you, had you gone 7mm you would have used rebar and real stone.

[Physicsman]

14 minutes ago, MarshLane said:

Jeff,

Wow, I mean ... just wow ....!

 

Stunning work, I said before that KL2 was inspirational, but this is going to be far more so the way your going.  Keep going though, while it may seem boring to you, personally I think even just one picture to show what your doing and how you progressing is worth it each day. It shows how long such a process takes and how it builds up - personally it is all part of the story.  I don't comment every time, but always click the like button ... I keep wanting a wonderful modelling or extraordinary lengths button!  

 

Edit: Just a thought - yes a serious one - have you thought about doing a little video showing how the stones are made, chosen, attached?  For anyone contemplating anything similar it may give some wise council, idea of how to go on .. or convince then to leave well alone!

 

I tend to agree with @Winslow Boy .. the third stone in on the fifth ... yea ok I'll get me coat.

 

Rich

 

Rich, your message was going SO well. Until you mentioned the third stone....

 

Remakably, I'm not bored at all. So maybe I must be crazy. I remember somebody asking on the KL2 thread if I listen to music while "stoning". I don't, though I seem to run a lot of tunes through my head while I'm working. And there's the occasional bit of Anglo-Saxon when something doesn't quite fit, or I try to stick something in place when I haven't put any PVA into the pier....

 

As for videos, that's something I've never got round to, unlike Sir Bodgit, who is a master of the art. 3 people have already emailed me to suggest a magazine article. Maybe. What I would be happy to do, IF the viaduct comes out ok, is to do a supplementary thread on how I built the  thing, and the stone walls. Illustrated step-by-step with pictures.

 

I think there are two key elements to any form of scratchbuilding. One, do the research and get as much info on the prototype as possible. If necessary, use this info to re-scale dimensions, as appropriate. And two, break the whole thing down into a LOT of simple steps. I was given this advice ten years ago, and boy, is it so true.

 

Right, enough bol*ocks from me.....

 

Jeff

 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Physicsman
Multiple typos

[Physicsman]

11 minutes ago, Donington Road said:

 

Knowing you, had you gone 7mm you would have used rebar and real stone.

 

What a blooming good idea.

 

I'll remember that for next time!

 

J.

 

 

[Winslow Boy]

4 minutes ago, Physicsman said:

 

Rich, your message was going SO well. Until you mentioned the third stone....

 

Remakably, I'm not bored at all. So maybe I must be crazy. I remember somebody asking on the KL2 thread of I listen to music while "stoning". I don't, though I seem to run a lot of tunes through my head while I'm working. And there's the occasional but if Anglo-Saxon when something doesn't quite fit, or I try to stick something in place when I haven't put any PVA into the pier....

 

As for videos, that's something I've never got round to, unlike Sir Bodgit, who is a master of the art. 3 people have already emailed me to suggest a magazine article. Maybe. What I would be happy to do, IF the viaduct comes out ok, is to do a supplementary thread on how I built the same thing, and the stone walls. Illustrated step-by-step with pictures.

 

I think there are two key elements to any form of scratchbuilding. One, do the research and get as much info on the prototype as possible. If necessary, use this info to re-scale dimensions, as appropriate. And two, break the whole thing down into a LOT of simple steps. I was given this advice ten years ago, and boy, is it so true.

 

Right, enough bol*ocks from me.....

 

Jeff

 

 

Look when we said we liked it, it was the pictures we were referring to not you babbling on about how you enjoy it and that it helps keep you sane.

 

As before Jeff just brilliant.

[MarshLane]

7 minutes ago, Physicsman said:

 

Rich, your message was going SO well. Until you mentioned the third stone....

 

Remakably, I'm not bored at all. So maybe I must be crazy. I remember somebody asking on the KL2 thread if I listen to music while "stoning". I don't, though I seem to run a lot of tunes through my head while I'm working. And there's the occasional bit of Anglo-Saxon when something doesn't quite fit, or I try to stick something in place when I haven't put any PVA into the pier....

 

As for videos, that's something I've never got round to, unlike Sir Bodgit, who is a master of the art. 3 people have already emailed me to suggest a magazine article. Maybe. What I would be happy to do, IF the viaduct comes out ok, is to do a supplementary thread on how I built the  thing, and the stone walls. Illustrated step-by-step with pictures.

 

I think there are two key elements to any form of scratchbuilding. One, do the research and get as much info on the prototype as possible. If necessary, use this info to re-scale dimensions, as appropriate. And two, break the whole thing down into a LOT of simple steps. I was given this advice ten years ago, and boy, is it so true.

 

Right, enough bol*ocks from me.....

 

Jeff

 

 

 

This might be a bit left field, but if you decided to document it on here ... what about setting it up as a blog just for the viaduct construction/detailing - can be linked from the thread and your signature.  For things like that I often think the blog posts are better as people can still comment on them, but you don't get lost in various comments and post. If somebody just wants to read your words they can - and a blog would allow you to split the various steps down into smaller posts.  Just a thought.

 

I do feel that people (me included) don't make enough use of the Blog facility on rmWeb ... having said that - for a general layout build I think the forum flows far better with feedback and ideas.

Rich

[Sasquatch]

I hate to be the one to curb your enthusiasm Jeff but you missed a row mate...

 

Otherwise it's simply brilliant!

 

Hope you're well

 

Shaun. (Got cut it short there's two guys in White coats at the door)

[Neilgue]

It’s not tedious Jeff. I will look in here every day as a matter of course, so you might as well throw in a pic or two to show the progress however repetitive. 
At 300 stones a day, how long do you think it will take?

 

Cheers, Neil

[lofty.ian]

Hi Jeff,

Keep up the brilliant work. It's not just the detail of the stonework but the fact you are capturing the feel of the structure.  Last year I built a road bridge for my layout, based of the MR branch to Heysham.  The bridge was twin elliptical arches on a skew, stone with brick arches.  Whilst I short cut a lot of it, for the curved end-on brick courses around the arches I could only do by making strips of half brick, snicked to curve, and layed separately.  When I had done I wondered whether it was worth it.  A fellow modeller made two comments.  Firstly it was a significent feature so had to feel right.  Secondly, people might not appreciate the work involved in the detail but would appreciate that it looked right.  Sometimes one can skip detail but still capture the feel, other times one just has to do the full detail like you are doing.

Ian

[Physicsman]

5 hours ago, Neilgue said:

It’s not tedious Jeff. I will look in here every day as a matter of course, so you might as well throw in a pic or two to show the progress however repetitive. 
At 300 stones a day, how long do you think it will take?

 

Cheers, Neil

 

Hi Neil.

 

It's hard to estimate how many stones will be needed, but it will be in the range 10-15,000. For comparison, all the walling on KL2 probably totalled 60k. But walling is much easier than this.

 

So 300 a day gives, let's say about 40 days. I can work at up to 100 an hour, though the first King pier today is driving me nuts and I'm down to about 50 per hour. I don't work to any schedule, and I'm pretty sure I'll get fed up and have a break. BUT, I will be annoyed if I haven't got most of the stones on by mid-January.

 

As Ian alludes to in the post above, as the job progresses and the feeling of success increases, the pace might increase.

 

Sorry, Neil, don't give me an excuse to woffle!

 

Jeff

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by Physicsman
More tablet auto-corrects! Bah!!

[Physicsman]

5 hours ago, lofty.ian said:

Hi Jeff,

Keep up the brilliant work. It's not just the detail of the stonework but the fact you are capturing the feel of the structure.  Last year I built a road bridge for my layout, based of the MR branch to Heysham.  The bridge was twin elliptical arches on a skew, stone with brick arches.  Whilst I short cut a lot of it, for the curved end-on brick courses around the arches I could only do by making strips of half brick, snicked to curve, and layed separately.  When I had done I wondered whether it was worth it.  A fellow modeller made two comments.  Firstly it was a significent feature so had to feel right.  Secondly, people might not appreciate the work involved in the detail but would appreciate that it looked right.  Sometimes one can skip detail but still capture the feel, other times one just has to do the full detail like you are doing.

Ian

 

 

Good philosophy, Ian.  For me, at the end of the day, if you do any job you should always try your best. No matter how it turns out, you can then be proud of your efforts. If you then get positive feedback from other modellers, it's a great feeling.

 

I was pointed in the direction of RMweb in 2010. It was a real eye-opener. Overnight, I realised that my "modelling" was pretty cr*p and contact with RMwebbers - offering advice and encouragement - soon got me going.

 

Do you have a thread on here? 

 

Jeff

 

 

[Physicsman]

As requested, a short picture update.

 

I fixed some more stones onto pier 3 and, as you can see, made a start on pier 2 (a King pier). The latter proved a bit awkward, not sure why - maybe I'd just gotten into the groove with the other ones.

 

Jeff

 

 

[BWsTrains]

Hi Jeff,

 

As a break from stone laying progress, I'm interested how you manage climate control in your garage. More than one modeller has fallen foul of oscillating humidity causing swelling and movements of structural timbers to an unacceptable level. 

 

Given this is Mark 2 Garage conversion you've clearly nailed the issue, what is your solution?

 

Colin

 

 

[Physicsman]

3 hours ago, BWsTrains said:

Hi Jeff,

 

As a break from stone laying progress, I'm interested how you manage climate control in your garage. More than one modeller has fallen foul of oscillating humidity causing swelling and movements of structural timbers to an unacceptable level. 

 

Given this is Mark 2 Garage conversion you've clearly nailed the issue, what is your solution?

 

Colin

 

 

 

Hi Colin.

 

This one is actually the third conversion in 9 years. Another indicator of how crazy I am, as it's not only a lot of effort but burns up the dosh! However, moving house left no alternative.  I've found the garages to provide an excellent environment for the layouts.

 

The previous 2 were brick-built constructions. This one is a pre-fabricated concrete job. The conversion technique was similar for all, though the original had less damp-proofing and no insulated floor.

 

All require a degree of heating in the winter months, but with the amount of insulation the place gets warm quickly and stays there for several hours. No condensation issues, and no water ingress. The double-layered DPC beneath the floor frames seems to work well.

 

I wonder if part of the problem with some garages is down to the "heaviness" of the construction? I tend to overdo things, with large timbers, multiply reinforced. Perhaps this reduces movement?

 

Other than what's been mentioned, I don't know. 

 

Jeff

 

 

[Physicsman]

Evening folks - an update.

 

5 pics attached, showing work done on piers 3 and 4 over the last couple of days.

 

It may not appear as if much has been done in this time, but an extra 800 stones have now been added, representing about 10 hours work. The total number of stones on the piers is about 2300 and my initial run of DAS strips has been used up, so a load more have been made.

 

If you look at pier 4 (the left pier in the last 2 images) you'll notice the stonework is a bit "smudgy". Some DAS slurry has been added-in as "mortar". It doesn't fill all the gaps, but removes the false sharpness of the bare blocks. More mortar will be added - probably on Sunday when today's PVA is set rock-hard.

 

As I said in an earlier post, it really is stones, stones and more stones.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

 

 

[Neilgue]

Looking good Jeff. As you say, the stonework does look a bit “sharp” without the mortar. But I am looking forward to see it when you have done some pointing and add some colour as with the arches you showed earlier. 

 

Cheers, Neil

[Physicsman]

3 hours ago, Neilgue said:

Looking good Jeff. As you say, the stonework does look a bit “sharp” without the mortar. But I am looking forward to see it when you have done some pointing and add some colour as with the arches you showed earlier. 

 

Cheers, Neil

 

Hi Neil.

 

I'll certainly do some mortaring this weekend. It joins other tasks, essential but a bit mundane, making more DAS strips and messing around with grey paints to produce a top coat I'll be happy with.

 

I always feel in two minds when I "weather" a structure. To be honest, when I applied slurry to the goods shed in KL2 (about page 175) I thought it looked awful and I'd ruined it. But after a couple of days I concluded that it DID look a lot better for it, it was just my perspective.

 

I think part of my resistance is because of the care and attention given to cutting and fitting the stones. However, the real structure has been in place for nearly 150 years and has suffered wear and tear. Besides, a bit of gunge into the stones adds a bit of surface texture that the DAS stones lack.

 

I'll be interested to see how it works out!

 

As for colour, the arch liners have to be too painted  before fitting in place and that will likely happen when I have the two King piers stoned to about the 60% level - around 2 weeks time, at my present pace. Maybe Christmas day!!

 

Jeff

 

 

[BWsTrains]

9 hours ago, Physicsman said:

I think part of my resistance is because of the care and attention given to cutting and fitting the stones. However, the real structure has been in place for nearly 150 years and has suffered wear and tear. Besides, a bit of gunge into the stones adds a bit of surface texture that the DAS stones lack.

 

 

Just a stray thought. When /if AG eventually passes its usefulness day consider a donation of it to the "Cumbria Museum" or whatever as a testament to the marvels of Victorian engineering and railway construction in your area.  Any self respecting museum should be honoured to receive such a masterpiece (which I'm sure it will be).

 

Colin

 

PS and far less stressful on your followers than another "Chain Saw Massacre"

Edited December 12, 2020 by BWsTrains
PS

[teaky]

Have you considered colouring your slurry thereby adding mortar and undercoat in one go?