Jump to content

Blackford to Gleneagles curve at MP135 N Gauge early 60's


Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

This really has been a long time in the planning and there is much to plan yet.  Some of the thoughts revolved around it being very different to Caolisport and hopefully offering a different experience.

 

I have decided to model a short plain mainline section of my favourite railway which will ultimately just be a long sweeping curve.  The long curve in the shadow of the Ochils between Blackford and Gleneagles fitted all of the requirements perfectly.  The only gauge that this could feasibly be achieved with and maintain as much realism in curve and train formation would be N Gauge.

 

The period will roughly be 1960-1966.  The last 6 months has been spent making a start on assembling the stock and thinking about how to fit it into a 10x8 insulated shed in the garden.  I think its just possible.  The scenic curve should just be able to take the longest train which will be a 5A big lizzie and 14 bogies!

 

So yesterday I spent 3 hours on site getting as much of whats required recorded in photographs.  I have since then had a panorama back scene template produced by John at Art-Printers sent to me.  Should be ok I think, and will be the first thing to go in.

 

Proof_New_Panorama1_(1).jpg.c6ad9b77d5caa173426a1c77e1203eb3.jpg

 

The scenic section will run from the bridge just South of Gleneagles station on the map to the bridge at Muiralehouse bottom left.

Map.jpg.cc7f6d06c74220497307985b2a139a0f.jpg

 

Looking South from Gleneagles

Glenargles.jpg.d545b76450285b57f2d77466d2c0054d.jpg

 

Bridge 148 at MP 135 Caledonian main line from Carlisle Looking North towards Gleneagles and South towards Peterhead farm bridge and Blackford

1854896015_148North.jpg.ab5695eabce3c59eaf84245d761a0cc2.jpg

377332007_148South.jpg.a1f873321c53d51cdfcd12738767ed83.jpg

 

Looking North from Peterhead farm bridge towards bridge 148 which will be the centre piece of the layout

808209962_PeterheadNorth.jpg.94c4a13560ac03d8c2c9dc755cc8cba5.jpg

 

And finally Muiralehouse bridge looking South towards Blackford824712472_MuiralehouseSouth.jpg.d7587433a35a3dfbd1bbc30f84f2626e.jpg

 

 

Anyway I just thought i'd share where the idea and planning has got to so far.

 

Will keep you posted, cheers

 

Claggy

 

Edited by Clagmeister
  • Like 10
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I hope i do it justice, sort of has to be N gauge.

 

The reasons why I like the line so much are many.  The line side hasn't changed much and it is one of the last high speed semaphore signalled lines in the UK.  Its 90 around that curve.  I drive it regularly with LSL and its always a pleasure.  Also in the 60's it was probably the only place you could see A4's and Duchess's passing on the mainline.  The six coach 3 and 4hr expresses with A4s and A2s are just to appealing for me, so here we are. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

With construction still a liitle way off.  Time on these wet days for weathering and getting the fleet ready.  Dapol A4 Woodcock halfway through its weathering and transformation into Ferryhill celebrity A4 Kingfisher.  A2s Sun Chariot and Blue Peter before and after.  Pencil weathering, i think it looks ok fir trains passing in the countryside.

20201027_165231.jpg.86ccfae7a780f1475f1d4e54d1d42823.jpg20201008_195454.jpg.759a2f50b8da0147577d07f48946812a.jpg

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Clagmeister changed the title to Blackford and Gleneagles MP135 (N Gauge Caley Main) Early 1960's

I'm currently trying to find timings for what seemed like a great deal of Carlisle-Perth parcels traffic in the early 60s. The wtt timings don't appear on my Perth (South) Freight timetable.  Any help on this gratefully received.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Whilst the shed isn't here yet, have tried some setting out to try and get the curve to look right.

 

This is the view from Bridge 48 at MP 135 as it will look on the layout.  How does the curve compare to the real one in foto 3 in the first post?

20201101_221825.jpg.30bdc9fbb74a2c586612dfa01d70dfbf.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Hello, this looks very interesting.

 

Can you confirm the scope of the layout, am I right in assuming you been between the two bridges here ringed in red?

 

Also let me know if you need any rolling stock for the layout.  My Perth project has had to be cancelled and so there will be a few coaches, wagons and potentially some locomotives from the 1960-1964 period for sale sometime soon.

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

 

3BE9F9C3-C489-4EFF-BEE9-7A8CE479B8D2.jpeg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, scottystitch said:

Hello, this looks very interesting.

 

Can you confirm the scope of the layout, am I right in assuming you been between the two bridges here ringed in red?

 

Also let me know if you need any rolling stock for the layout.  My Perth project has had to be cancelled and so there will be a few coaches, wagons and potentially some locomotives from the 1960-1964 period for sale sometime soon.

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

 

3BE9F9C3-C489-4EFF-BEE9-7A8CE479B8D2.jpeg

 

Yes basically bridge 49 just before Gleneagles through bridge 48 at MP135 at the end of the cutting and as you say Muiralehouse bridge at the bottom.  Peterhead farm bridge will be in the middle.

 

Yes would be very interested in appropriate stock.  :-) 

 

Thanks  Claggy

Edited by Clagmeister
Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking good Claggy. Can’t beat the LNER Pacific’s! Can’t wait to see 60532 out once more, last time I was up around Blackford was a few years ago now, No. 9 and the K4 about on the Great Britain trip.

 

Looking forward to seeing the plan develop. 
 

Rich

Edited by MarshLane
Link to post
Share on other sites

60532 coming along.  Setting up of the new middle cylinder going on at the moment.  Huge job.  Will have to make do with 46233 and hopefully 60007 next year.  But yes rushing through Strathearn with BP is a long held ambition.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/11/2020 at 22:08, scottystitch said:

Hello, this looks very interesting.

 

Can you confirm the scope of the layout, am I right in assuming you been between the two bridges here ringed in red?

 

Also let me know if you need any rolling stock for the layout.  My Perth project has had to be cancelled and so there will be a few coaches, wagons and potentially some locomotives from the 1960-1964 period for sale sometime soon.

 

Best

 

Scott.

 

 

3BE9F9C3-C489-4EFF-BEE9-7A8CE479B8D2.jpeg

Hi Scott,

 

Sorry to hear you have had to cancel the Perth project. I know you have been focussing on it for some time. Are you moving on to something else? I like some of the plans you have posted on here, especially the recent Bernina line one.

 

Cheers

David

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

I suppose this is the start of the project.  Base up so to speak.  The old tatty shed is down and i'm busy levelling and preparing the ground for the sub base and ultimately the shed base.  My half will be 10x8 for Gleneagles-Blackford to go in.

20201114_110903.jpg.17982d7d4a79fadc0809e682cfb596aa.jpg

 

Meanwhile i have to content myself with assembling stock and looking at it on the table.

 

Kingfisher on the closest i can get to a 3hr formation20201113_171407.jpg.1d31a6e60e577e6103b3ab3846542ac6.jpg

 

cheerio

 

Claggy

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/11/2020 at 22:43, Clagmeister said:

 

Yes basically bridge 49 just before Gleneagles through bridge 48 at MP135 at the end of the cutting and as you say Muiralehouse bridge at the bottom.  Peterhead farm bridge will be in the middle.

 

Yes would be very interested in appropriate stock.  :-) 

 

Thanks  Claggy

 

I'll be interested to see this layout develop, it's a great location for watching trains sweep through the landscape. Locally those bridges are known to railwaymen as Bardrill Road, Mill Hill and the Three Arches. I've never heard anyone call them Muiralehouse or Peterhead but of course location names come and go through the years.

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, 3 arches is the one that i know and use for Gleneagles stop! Tis a bit late though from linespeed! I have just named these after the farm and cottages next to them. I hadn't heard Bardrill or Mill Hill on the ops side, just get them as numbers.  

 

I will use the correct names going forward.  I judge from your name that you know being local.  As a Carlisle man exact knowledge of every bridge 135 miles from home is hard to get.  Thanks for the info i appreciate it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Clagmeister said:

Yes, 3 arches is the one that i know and use for Gleneagles stop! Tis a bit late though from linespeed! I have just named these after the farm and cottages next to them. I hadn't heard Bardrill or Mill Hill on the ops side, just get them as numbers.  

 

I will use the correct names going forward.  I judge from your name that you know being local.  As a Carlisle man exact knowledge of every bridge 135 miles from home is hard to get.  Thanks for the info i appreciate it.

I wouldn't say they're "correct" as such but that's what I've always known them as. As you've sussed from the username I'm a local lad (though on the signalling side rather than the footplate). I've always thought Gleneagles in the 60s would be a great subject for a layout!

Edited by PerthBox
Spelling!
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Couple of questions for any learned fellows out there might who might know the answers.  From all the pics and video clips i have seen of the Glasgow-Dundee services during the early 60's more often than not they are worked by Standard Class 5's.  Did St Rollox provide them for all the diagrams?  Dundee didn't have an allocation and it appears they kicked out there V2's and occasionally A2's for some jobs.  But were they actually booked for a St Rollox loco.  I wondered also whether the B1's allocated at Tay Bridge were ever involved?  The Dundee trains never got the interest that the Aberdeen trains managed and details are a bit sketchy.

 

Thanks

 

Claggy

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Hello Claggy,

 

having spend a bit of time planning a Perth model, I have to say my observations are the opposite. Certainly the photo books and literature I have in the collection suggest a good variety of haulage.

 

i will travel through my books for you this week if I remember but from memory, V2s, A4s, BRCW Type 2s and NBL Type 2s and more are credited as being in charge of Dundee trains early to mid sixties. 
 

best

 

Scott. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

First up is Michael Welsh's Memories of Steam from Glasgow to Aberdeen:

 

End Papers - A2 60530 10.00 Dundee W to Glasgow BS Summer 1965

 

Contents Page - BR Standard Caprotti 5MT 713151 10.00 Dundee W to Glasgow BS 1 May 1962

 

Plate 4 - A4 60031 18.15 Glasgow BS to Dundee W 19 April 1965

 

Plate 8 - V2 60816 19.15 Glasgow BS to Dundee W 17 May 1964

 

Plate 38 - A2 60530 18.15 Glasgow BS to Dundee W 31 August 1965

 

Plate 40 - BR Standard 5MT 73145 13.15 Glasgow BS to Dundee W 23 May 1964

 

PLate 47 - A2 60530 18.15 Glasgow BS to Dundee W 1 September 1965

 

Plate 49 - BR Standard Caprotti 5MT 73151 17.00 Glasgow BS to Dundee W 31 August 1965

 

 

 

There are other images that look like they may be Dundee trains, but they are unidentified so it's anyone's guess.

 

Best

 

Scott

 

 

Edited by scottystitch
  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

W A C Smith's and Paul Anderson's An Illustrated History of Tayside's Railways Dundee and Perth:

 

Page 13 - BR Standard 5MT 73146 14.00 Dundee W to Glasgow BS 27 April 1963

 

Page 15 - BR Standard 5MT 73145 13.15 Glasgow BS to Dundee W 27 April 1963

 

Page 48 - Stanier 5MT 45390 (Springs Branch Wigan) 14.00 Dundee Tay Bridge to Glasgow BS 21 August 1965

 

Page 60 - BR Sulzer Type 2 D5125 11.15 Glasgow BS to Dundee 21 August 1965

 

Page 62 - BR Sulzer D5357 16.35 Dundee to Glasgow Queen Street 25 March 1967

 

 

Best

 

Scott

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Some Flickr finds:

 

31933065807_13a3001d96_c.jpgSt. Rollox A4. by John Whiteley, on Flickr

 

16855184465_5f0acabec5_c.jpgStirling. by John Whiteley, on Flickr

 

3868684890_3cd0b5aa1c_c.jpg45474_nrGleneagles_Dundee-GlasBucSt_4-9-64 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

JMB T72 15 Perth 60031 Golden Plover with 1400 Dundee West to Glasgow 21081964

 

165 D5381 on 14-00 Dundee West-Glasgow Buchannan Street on Barnhill curve Perth 17-04-65 (John Boyes) 165

 

This next one isn't attributed toa  service but I can't see that it would be anything other than a Glasgow service:

 

D6116 & D6109 Dundee West May 1963 Slide 1709 CTLS1314

 

Black 5 at Stirling 1965

 

 

 

 

Edited by scottystitch
Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant thank you Scott.

 

That pic of the A4 leaving Perth is a stunner!!!!   Yes i had read that St Rollox kicked out Merlin and Golden Plover on I presume the early Dundee diagram if and i presume again that a diesel was found for the early Aberdeen or the other A4.

 

Seems from your posts that the Dundees were a right mish mash then with Standard 5s being the most prevalent. 

 

Thanks again

 

Claggy

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

Hi Claggy,

 

Yes a bit of variety, but on reflection I think you're right about the Standard 5s, it seems that maybe they were rostered more often than not on the Dundee trains.  St Rollox got 11 in 1955 and I think they all stayed there until withdrawal.  There were other images in those two books of dundee trains with Standard 5s.

 

I'll have  flick through some more books and see what turns up.

 

Best

 

Scott.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Clagmeister changed the title to Blackford to Gleneagles curve at MP135 N Gauge early 60's
1 hour ago, scottystitch said:

Yes a bit of variety, but on reflection I think you're right about the Standard 5s, it seems that maybe they were rostered more often than not on the Dundee trains.  St Rollox got 11 in 1955 and I think they all stayed there until withdrawal.  


Most stayed at St Rollox, but not all. Some spent short times (some very short i.e. less than one month) at, variously, Eastfield, Ayr, Stirling and Motherwell before being withdrawn.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Not strictly modelling but the base continues to take shape for the railway room.

 

Sub base done and levelled and a trial fitting of the plastic interlocking shed base.  I'm filling with a couple of different aggregates to see which is best before ordering more base squares and a dumpy bag of the right fill.

 

20201117_142510.jpg.44e4f83a5438110cc33843bab1d7bb9e.jpg

 

20201117_142521.jpg.552a71e38173daf4f2a7fcc33002b787.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.