More mysteries

[carlwebus]

Hi all

 

Two more from my collection of mysteries:

Pic 4 looks to me a  bit like a Western pannier? 

Are the windows in the coach broken or is that just a reflection?

back of the photo  is written "462" and "17/6/64"

Where is it I wonder.

 

Pic 5 looks like a goods shed on the right.

Might even be Ireland (NCC)?

Nothing whatsoever on the back of the photo.

Can anyone help me  with loco/  class/ location?

[Andy Kirkham]

No.5 puts me in mind of Scotland, and does the loco have a North British look to it?

Is that bridge crossing over a river?

 

But I wouldn't rule out Northern Ireland either.

 

It does look like the sort of place where you might come upon a shipyard.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Andy Kirkham

[Joseph_Pestell]

Pic 4. Carriage on the left looks LMS(NCC) to me. And the track gauge looks broad.

[Andy Kirkham]

18 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Pic 4. Carriage on the left looks LMS(NCC) to me. And the track gauge looks broad.

Could the locomotive be Lough Erne or her sister Lough Melvin?

 

https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/11/no27-lough-erne

 

There's not a lot to go on, but the profile of the cab roof and the shape of the windows seem to match.

 

{Edit} And by 1964, I don't suppose there were very many other types of tank engines left in Northern Ireland that could be candidates.

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Andy Kirkham

[bécasse]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Pic 4. Carriage on the left looks LMS(NCC) to me. And the track gauge looks broad.

I wondered if the loco is one of the NCC Jinties?

[The Johnster]

I believe they had round rear cab spectacles, like their 'mainland' cousins/

[Caley739]

5 looks like a North British N15 0-6-2T possibly in BR livery but a GW wagon in the train might indicate an earlier date.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Caley739
spelling

[carlwebus]

Thanks  to all.

 

The little grey cells are beginning to  work!

 

Photo No.4 does indeed look a lot like a North British N15 in profile.  Any thoughts about the style of what looks like a goods shed?  I think the lattice girdar bridge certainly carries  the tracks over something more to the right of the road bridge.

 

And photo No. 5 fits Andy Kirkham's  thoughts re coach,  track and loco.  Loco looks a lot like Lough Erne or Lough Melvin.  Don't think it is one of the NCC Jintys. My understanding is that  they were merely re-wheeled to NCC gauge and no other  cosmetic or other changes made.  Therefore the rear cab window shape would be  wrong  for a Jinty.

 

What about the station in the background, the wagons, and  what looks like a bridge girdar kit between the tracks?

[Andy Kirkham]

1 hour ago, carlwebus said:

 

Photo No.4 does indeed look a lot like a North British N15 in profile.  Any thoughts about the style of what looks like a goods shed?  I think the lattice girdar bridge certainly carries  the tracks over something more to the right of the road bridge.

 

 

Judging by the shadows, we are looking west and the train is running north. 

 

I'm not so inclined to think the building on the right is a railway goods shed as (a) it seems to be quite narrow, judging by how the gable appears to descend on the far side (b) it's a bit more ornate than goods sheds that I can think of (c) does it have a flagpole sticking up from the peak of the gable, or is it a blemish on the photo?

 

I wondered if it might be Greenock with the railway heading towards Princes Pier, but it seems the line was on an embankment after it crossed the road, rather than a lattice bridge.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Andy Kirkham

[pH]

10 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

I wondered if it might be Greenock with the railway heading towards Princes Pier, but it seems the line was on an embankment after it crossed the road, rather than a lattice bridge.

I would agree - definitely not Princes Pier. That line was G&SWR, then LMS, and the first time an NBR N15 would possibly have been seen there would have been in 1948. The GWR wagon in the train would suggest an earlier time, though there might have been a small window for that combination after 1948. I’ve never seen a reference to N15s at Princes Pier, but they did appear on some ex-LMS lines after Nationalisation.

 

Plus, an engine steaming that hard at that point on the gradient down into Princes Pier would be going to have a problem stopping before it ran out of track.

[ardbealach]

Some thoughts on the image.   I would agree it is not Greenock.  From the picture we have the following:

 

1  We all think it a NBR locomotive.  I would agree, but have we exhausted all the alternatives?

 

2  If it is a N15 I don't think they ran anywhere else but in Scotland.

 

3  There appears to be a church steeple behind the locomotive.

 

4  The train is running along a viaduct to get the line over the road, and it seems that the viaduct continues on the right over a river. 

 

5  The engine is working so is it pulling up a gradient away from a dock? 

 

5  The picture is pre WW2 with the GW wagon.

 

6  The second wagon is an Esso tank wagon, with an odd tank wagon the first one behind the engine with a double filler to its tank.  Can we identify this wagon?

 

7  Was the tank wagons delivering fuel for the bunkering of ships at the dock?

 

All just a thought. (AM)

 

 

 

 

 

[pH]

4 hours ago, ardbealach said:

3  There appears to be a church steeple behind the locomotive.

I wondered if that was the tower of Glasgow University:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Glasgow,_University_tower_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1680146.jpg

And the hills in the background look similar to those to the west of Glasgow, north of the Clyde. I tried looking along ex-LNER routes in eastern/northeastern Glasgow for possibilities, but without success.

 

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Some were allocated to Parkhead and Eastfield so could be Glasgow area.

 

Also three at Carlisle. Was there anything suitable near Carlisle they might have worked? Port Carlisle or Carlisle and Silloth Bay.

 

Both areas I'm not familiar with railway wise. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_and_Silloth_Bay_Railway

Edited November 11, 2020 by Steamport Southport
Added link

[Jeremy Cumberland]

32 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Some were allocated to Parkhead and Eastfield so could be Glasgow area.

 

Also three at Carlisle. Was there anything suitable near Carlisle they might have worked? Port Carlisle or Carlisle and Silloth Bay.

 

Both areas I'm not familiar with railway wise. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_and_Silloth_Bay_Railway

It isn't anywhere west of Carlisle. Don't imagine that Port Carlisle is actually a port, whatever the name of the place may be, and the railway at Silloth is no higher than the surrounding countryside (roads pass over the railway, not under it). Solway Viaduct is in the middle of nowhere.

[carlwebus]

Hi All

 

I feel  we're getting somewhere - albeit slowly!

 

Agreement on NBR N15 and probable pre-war (the dating would fit with a number of other photos in the job lot - some of  which are dated a round 1937.

 

Picking up points made:

• There is indeed a flagpole on the  end of the building;
• The steeple / spire behind  the engine is not Glasgow University.  The tower in the picture  has too much vertical face above the corner points.

 

[65179]

1937 is the earliest it can be as the Esso brand wasn't used in the UK any earlier according to the Exxon website.

 

Simon

[Andy Kirkham]

From BRDataBase I obtained all the sheds with an allocation of N15s in January 1949 (you can get a snapshot of any date)

 

Aberdeen Ferryhill
Bathgate
Carlisle Canal
Dunfermline Upper
Eastfield
Haymarket
Kipps
Parkhead
Polmont
St Margarets
Thornton Junction

[ardbealach]

Thank you for that Andy.   From my knowledge of Scottish railways, and in particular the areas you have identified which had N15s, I just do not recognise the location in the photograph for any of those areas.

 

So is the locomotive an N15?  What else might it be?  Another ex LNER N Class 0-6-2Tank perhaps?  (AM)