carlwebus Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Hi all Two more from my collection of mysteries: Pic 4 looks to me a bit like a Western pannier? Are the windows in the coach broken or is that just a reflection? back of the photo is written "462" and "17/6/64" Where is it I wonder. Pic 5 looks like a goods shed on the right. Might even be Ireland (NCC)? Nothing whatsoever on the back of the photo. Can anyone help me with loco/ class/ location? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) No.5 puts me in mind of Scotland, and does the loco have a North British look to it? Is that bridge crossing over a river? But I wouldn't rule out Northern Ireland either. It does look like the sort of place where you might come upon a shipyard. Edited November 9, 2020 by Andy Kirkham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 Pic 4. Carriage on the left looks LMS(NCC) to me. And the track gauge looks broad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Pic 4. Carriage on the left looks LMS(NCC) to me. And the track gauge looks broad. Could the locomotive be Lough Erne or her sister Lough Melvin? https://www.steamtrainsireland.com/rpsi-collection/11/no27-lough-erne There's not a lot to go on, but the profile of the cab roof and the shape of the windows seem to match. {Edit} And by 1964, I don't suppose there were very many other types of tank engines left in Northern Ireland that could be candidates. Edited November 10, 2020 by Andy Kirkham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said: Pic 4. Carriage on the left looks LMS(NCC) to me. And the track gauge looks broad. I wondered if the loco is one of the NCC Jinties? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 I believe they had round rear cab spectacles, like their 'mainland' cousins/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caley739 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 5 looks like a North British N15 0-6-2T possibly in BR livery but a GW wagon in the train might indicate an earlier date. Edited November 10, 2020 by Caley739 spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlwebus Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 Thanks to all. The little grey cells are beginning to work! Photo No.4 does indeed look a lot like a North British N15 in profile. Any thoughts about the style of what looks like a goods shed? I think the lattice girdar bridge certainly carries the tracks over something more to the right of the road bridge. And photo No. 5 fits Andy Kirkham's thoughts re coach, track and loco. Loco looks a lot like Lough Erne or Lough Melvin. Don't think it is one of the NCC Jintys. My understanding is that they were merely re-wheeled to NCC gauge and no other cosmetic or other changes made. Therefore the rear cab window shape would be wrong for a Jinty. What about the station in the background, the wagons, and what looks like a bridge girdar kit between the tracks? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 10, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, carlwebus said: Photo No.4 does indeed look a lot like a North British N15 in profile. Any thoughts about the style of what looks like a goods shed? I think the lattice girdar bridge certainly carries the tracks over something more to the right of the road bridge. Judging by the shadows, we are looking west and the train is running north. I'm not so inclined to think the building on the right is a railway goods shed as (a) it seems to be quite narrow, judging by how the gable appears to descend on the far side (b) it's a bit more ornate than goods sheds that I can think of (c) does it have a flagpole sticking up from the peak of the gable, or is it a blemish on the photo? I wondered if it might be Greenock with the railway heading towards Princes Pier, but it seems the line was on an embankment after it crossed the road, rather than a lattice bridge. Edited November 10, 2020 by Andy Kirkham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said: I wondered if it might be Greenock with the railway heading towards Princes Pier, but it seems the line was on an embankment after it crossed the road, rather than a lattice bridge. I would agree - definitely not Princes Pier. That line was G&SWR, then LMS, and the first time an NBR N15 would possibly have been seen there would have been in 1948. The GWR wagon in the train would suggest an earlier time, though there might have been a small window for that combination after 1948. I’ve never seen a reference to N15s at Princes Pier, but they did appear on some ex-LMS lines after Nationalisation. Plus, an engine steaming that hard at that point on the gradient down into Princes Pier would be going to have a problem stopping before it ran out of track. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardbealach Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 Some thoughts on the image. I would agree it is not Greenock. From the picture we have the following: 1 We all think it a NBR locomotive. I would agree, but have we exhausted all the alternatives? 2 If it is a N15 I don't think they ran anywhere else but in Scotland. 3 There appears to be a church steeple behind the locomotive. 4 The train is running along a viaduct to get the line over the road, and it seems that the viaduct continues on the right over a river. 5 The engine is working so is it pulling up a gradient away from a dock? 5 The picture is pre WW2 with the GW wagon. 6 The second wagon is an Esso tank wagon, with an odd tank wagon the first one behind the engine with a double filler to its tank. Can we identify this wagon? 7 Was the tank wagons delivering fuel for the bunkering of ships at the dock? All just a thought. (AM) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 4 hours ago, ardbealach said: 3 There appears to be a church steeple behind the locomotive. I wondered if that was the tower of Glasgow University: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Glasgow,_University_tower_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1680146.jpg And the hills in the background look similar to those to the west of Glasgow, north of the Clyde. I tried looking along ex-LNER routes in eastern/northeastern Glasgow for possibilities, but without success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Some were allocated to Parkhead and Eastfield so could be Glasgow area. Also three at Carlisle. Was there anything suitable near Carlisle they might have worked? Port Carlisle or Carlisle and Silloth Bay. Both areas I'm not familiar with railway wise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_and_Silloth_Bay_Railway Edited November 11, 2020 by Steamport Southport Added link Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Jeremy Cumberland Posted November 11, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 11, 2020 32 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: Some were allocated to Parkhead and Eastfield so could be Glasgow area. Also three at Carlisle. Was there anything suitable near Carlisle they might have worked? Port Carlisle or Carlisle and Silloth Bay. Both areas I'm not familiar with railway wise. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlisle_and_Silloth_Bay_Railway It isn't anywhere west of Carlisle. Don't imagine that Port Carlisle is actually a port, whatever the name of the place may be, and the railway at Silloth is no higher than the surrounding countryside (roads pass over the railway, not under it). Solway Viaduct is in the middle of nowhere. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlwebus Posted November 14, 2020 Author Share Posted November 14, 2020 Hi All I feel we're getting somewhere - albeit slowly! Agreement on NBR N15 and probable pre-war (the dating would fit with a number of other photos in the job lot - some of which are dated a round 1937. Picking up points made: There is indeed a flagpole on the end of the building; The steeple / spire behind the engine is not Glasgow University. The tower in the picture has too much vertical face above the corner points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted November 14, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2020 1937 is the earliest it can be as the Esso brand wasn't used in the UK any earlier according to the Exxon website. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted November 18, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 18, 2020 From BRDataBase I obtained all the sheds with an allocation of N15s in January 1949 (you can get a snapshot of any date) Aberdeen Ferryhill Bathgate Carlisle Canal Dunfermline Upper Eastfield Haymarket Kipps Parkhead Polmont St Margarets Thornton Junction Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardbealach Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Thank you for that Andy. From my knowledge of Scottish railways, and in particular the areas you have identified which had N15s, I just do not recognise the location in the photograph for any of those areas. So is the locomotive an N15? What else might it be? Another ex LNER N Class 0-6-2Tank perhaps? (AM) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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