Triang Hall (Ugly Duckling) to Swan (Malmesbury Abbey 4062)

[Kend]

       Well work on the shed trundles on so time to look at another loco bash. I have 2 x B12s and a Hall so fancying a bit of GWR I opted for the Hall. I hacked up a hall over 30 years ago. Modified the front end and reduced the length of the smoke box. A repaint saw it return to service as Sketty Hall. It was better but only just.

        So here we go, cut off the front of the running plate and front buffer beam. Remove handrails, remove the exhaust injector pipework and injector. Cut off cab and separate backhead for reuse. In this case remove the cab floor as a complete unit (it was cracked in half and repair). Remove chimney to reposition. I have employed a 3500 gal tender so the coal has been removed so that the tender can be shown as almost empty.

        All this work has been done so now it is the clean up of the boiler and sanding every scar smooth. The front of the running plate has been rebuilt and glued in place and the cab front, cab floor and cab sides have been made and fitted. Once everything is in place the handrails will be fitted after the exhaust injector and pipework is added. On this loco I am going to modify the entire running plates by creating a skin of thin plasticard with all the rivet detail. I have had a lot of success overlaying plasticard and it is easier to work than brass and much easier to glue.

 

[cypherman]

Hi Kend.

Yes the Hall is a grossly underrated model. Here is one of mine I did during lock down earlier this year. Not as complete an upgrade as you are doing. But it is a nice model. It is now 6972 Beningbrough Hall. It started out life as the bottom 2 pictures. I had a spare hall tender so I bought it for something to do over lock down.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by cypherman

[Kend]

Looks good, I'll put up some photos when mine is finished.

 

[RosiesBoss]

G’day, all,

 

The venerable Tri-ang Hall is a good candidate for inexpensive upgrades and a great way to build experience in such projects.

I have done two such upgrades, both of which have had further work done, as my skills improved.

 

The first was 4908 “Broome Hall”. I began work on this in 1967. This model now has:

·         Romford wheels and gears

·         Hornby Saint class crossheads & slidebars

·         Separate nickel silver handrails and brass knobs

·         Complete repaint

·         HMRS GWR transfers and lining

·         Etched name and numberplates

 

The second was 2953 “Titley Court”. I first converted this model in 1975. This model now has:

·         Hornby Dublo Castle Chassis block and wheels

·         Whitemetal/nickel silver cylinders, crossheads & slidebars

·         Tri-ang X04 Motor:

·         Airfix City of Truro Tender:

·         Modified Tri-ang Hall Body and front bogie frame

·         Hornby A4 bogie wheels

·         Romford gears

·         Separate nickel silver handrails and brass knobs

·         Complete repaint

·         HMRS GWR transfers and lining

·         Etched name and numberplates

 

 

Both models still work well and are still in use.

 

I can recommend such projects to anyone who wishes to have a go at making something a little different to what slides out of the box.

 

Regards,

 

Rob

[33C]

I love a Hall, but i'm no Saint! 171, named "Albion" Feb 1904, rebuilt as 4-4-2 Oct 1904, renamed "The Pirate" March 1907, rebuilt again as 4-6-0 July 1907 and re-renamed "Albion". Numbered 2971 in 1913......and that's 'all!

[Kend]

What great selections of locos built mostly from the humble Triang Hall, fantastic.

Here are some photos of mine with the body getting close to being finished. Tomorrow will see some car filler added and the rear of the loco finished. The tender now has coal and the chassis is reunited and has been shorn of its Hall cylinders. These will be replaced by castle cylinders and slide bars. The model is taking on the Edwardian elegant look which is very pleasing. Photos so far attached. 

 

 

[Kend]

Couple more photos as the conversion is almost complete. It was well worth removing the exhaust injector and pipework and adding new. Basic finish paint coat now complete. Am now trying to source an Airfix or early Hornby Castle for the cylinders and motion.

[cypherman]

Hi Kend.

The castle cylinders and sliders would be wrong for a Hall. Might I suggest the cylinders from the later Hornby Hall.

Hornby X6641 Class 49xx (4900) Hall Cylinder Block (Plain Black) - £3.75 - from Peters Spares Model Railways

Sorry still cannot post web links here. I can post them everywhere else.

[BernardTPM]

The 'Abbey' series Stars had 4 cylinders though, so wouldn't Castle ones be appropriate?

[sandwich station]

8 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

The 'Abbey' series Stars had 4 cylinders though, so wouldn't Castle ones be appropriate?

 

Castle cylinders would look better that Hall ones.

[Kend]

Thanks for the comments. The Stars were indeed 4 cylinder locomotives and the cylinder casting was the same (rather you should say the Castle was fitted with Star cylinders as the Stars proceed the Castles by 20 odd years). It is the Saint that was the pre-runner to the Hall. Today I have added the black paint. I have 4 castles and I want to get a photo of the Castles and the Star together because the Castle is noticeably bigger.

[BernardTPM]

Many years ago I converted an Airfix Castle to a Star (in late condition) for a friend using a Hornby Saint body for the older cab and the boiler/smokebox.

 

 

 

[Firecrest]

Amazing work there... Great minds think alike! I’m currently working on something similar with a 1972 moulding of 4983 that I discovered in Topps Trains for a whopping £5. It was filthy and rusty so I took pity on it. So far...
 

New chimney/safety valve/smokebox door dart/ steps/handrails/ejector pipe/lamp irons/smokebox door iron/brass cab surrounds/ drawbar/vac pipes/cab handrails/replacement valve gear/whistle shield/whistles/boiler bands & tender. Some parts came from a spare County body purchased for the purpose while the tender is a Hogwarts one from K&S Models spares box in Stevenage for a fiver. The original Triang one just seems a bit too crude to me. 

 

I have to confess I’m not a huge GWR fan but it was a fiver so why not and I’ve had a lot of fun learning about Halls. It’s going to be 4969 Sh(r)ugborough Hall when done as my parents live about 3 miles from the real thing! 
 

I didn’t dare alter the cab! So all kudos to you for doing that! Do you know if the Triang Hall is long in the boiler? I thought Counties and Halls had the same and the Hall seems longer...

 

Keep up the great work! 

Edited January 12, 2021 by Firecrest
Add image

[David_Belcher]

On 12/01/2021 at 16:40, Firecrest said:

Amazing work there... Great minds think alike! I’m currently working on something similar with a 1972 moulding of 4983 that I discovered in Topps Trains for a whopping £5. It was filthy and rusty so I took pity on it. So far...
 

New chimney/safety valve/smokebox door dart/ steps/handrails/ejector pipe/lamp irons/smokebox door iron/brass cab surrounds/ drawbar/vac pipes/cab handrails/replacement valve gear/whistle shield/whistles/boiler bands & tender. Some parts came from a spare County body purchased for the purpose while the tender is a Hogwarts one from K&S Models spares box in Stevenage for a fiver. The original Triang one just seems a bit too crude to me. 

 

I have to confess I’m not a huge GWR fan but it was a fiver so why not and I’ve had a lot of fun learning about Halls. It’s going to be 4969 Sh(r)ugborough Hall when done as my parents live about 3 miles from the real thing! 
 

I didn’t dare alter the cab! So all kudos to you for doing that! Do you know if the Triang Hall is long in the boiler? I thought Counties and Halls had the same and the Hall seems longer...

 

Keep up the great work! 

Ditching the moulded nameplate or just popping an etched one over the top? When I used a Hall footplate/splashers to build my '57 varieties' 44743 the plate mouldings were a bit of a challenge to remove!

 

David

[BernardTPM]

Thought. The 1980s revamp of the Hall into a Saint got rid of both the moulded handrails and that awful lump behind the nameplate, so if you wanted a better detailed Tri-ang Hornby Hall, take a Saint and replace the cab with a Hall one. Might actually be less work.

[Firecrest]

9 hours ago, David_Belcher said:

Ditching the moulded nameplate or just popping an etched one over the top? When I used a Hall footplate/splashers to build my '57 varieties' 44743 the plate mouldings were a bit of a challenge to remove!

 

David

Alas I’ve left it as moulded and am popping an etched one over. Having hacked it so much I just couldn’t face wielding the saw anymore! It’s looking quite nice now and I’ve just finished its top coat of 1960s era Humbrol Railway Enamel 104 green... looks and smells the part and thins down beautifully for spraying! 

[BernardTPM]

You can tell real Humbrol paint by the smell.

[lofty1966]

I'm building a straight frame Hornby Saint with an ancient Crownline conversion kit.

I'm also bodging a Saint using the remnants of the kit with a Grange boiler and Airfix Castle frames.

[Steamport Southport]

On 12/01/2021 at 16:40, Firecrest said:

I have to confess I’m not a huge GWR fan but it was a fiver so why not and I’ve had a lot of fun learning about Halls. It’s going to be 4969 Sh(r)ugborough Hall when done as my parents live about 3 miles from the real thing! 
 

I didn’t dare alter the cab! So all kudos to you for doing that! Do you know if the Triang Hall is long in the boiler? I thought Counties and Halls had the same and the Hall seems longer...

 

Keep up the great work! 

 

 

Yeah. I noticed they had spelt the name wrong when I bought some plates for renaming a Bachmann Rood Ashton Hall recently. 

 

 

Regarding the old Hornby Hall, I've only got a Kneller Hall and that's staying as it is for sentimental reasons.

 

 

Jason

[DCB]

 

I am currently trying to make a Hornby Saint look like a Saint, but trying to make one look like a Hall is probably easier.

The "Saint" has a deeper cab side sheet because the running plate is higher in relationship to the ground and the boiler centre line while the bottom of the side sheet  is exactly the same height above rail as the Hall. The cab is also noticeably shorter by 1ft or 4mm. So far I have sho,ts on Saint wheels.   There were several main variations of Saint front end but the drop was deeper than on the Hall  from the higher running plate to the same height buffer beam.   The straight frame post WW1 ish version is probably the easiest to make but the cylinder front ends are level with or protrude beyond the frame drop. One Cylinder and half the smokebox saddle is one part on the full size loco. You can't even cheat and use the Star body as that has a lower running plate and larger splashers than a Saint (40/4000 had Saint ones just to be awkward)

One quick upgrade is that Hornby China Castle/ County driving wheel tyres fit Triang / Hornby Hall wheels giving a long crank throw large wheels, Easier than taking wheels off. Bit too small at 25mm.   I used H/D Castle wheels with H/D coupling rods on my Halls bult 35 ish years ago and on another still under renovation, as they are Hall size, 24mm and I had replaced them with 26mm Romfords on the Castles.  Mainline Bachmann Tender wheels are a direct fit in the Triang Hall tender frame

Even for a Hall shortening the smokebox and front end just in front of the cylinders greatly helps appearance, I use Evostick Pipe weld to make sure the assembly stays attached.   The Triang Hall is scale length approx but it is 3mm too short from the centre axle back and a similar amount too long in front of the chimney the full size loco.

  Another quick win is that if you cut away the plastic under the cab you can secure the loco body with a short screw and shorten the swivelling tender draw bar so the connection is under the cab floor which can give a scale foot or 3 or 4mm tender to loco gap and still get round 1st radius curves. (see my Saint cab pic)  My Halls have had their bodies lowered, H/D wheels fitted, weighted heavily repainted and relined, etched plates, crews, glazed but no separate handrails or ejectors and have worked continuously for 35 years.   (Two shown on shed in 2011 in pic)

 

Edited January 22, 2021 by DavidCBroad

[Kend]

Really interesting reading and the conversions look great. I am going to look at the Hornby 4-4-0 County as a possible cylinder donor. Having to wait a while for bits. In the meantime I have gone back where I started and attacked a Triang pannier. This was a bit of an Ebay steel as it was on Buy It Now. £49.99. In the box was a Wrenn Pullman which needed its 'glass' refitted, a Hornby blood and custard Mk1 brake, 2 x 21T steel double side door minerals (for coal traffic) and finally the pannier which made a whooshing sound. Off came the lid and it has a modern replacement motor (think its a Portascap), Romford wheels and a 3 stage gearbox. Tightened a wheel and the final gear on the wheel axle and off it went. Runs slow but will pull most of what I can add. I have made the topfeed and tank fillers (later oval sort) but they are a bit too big. Anyone know where I can buy these fittings from please.

[DCB]

Pics showing how to close couple the tender by shortening the pivoting draw bar and cutting away the area below he cab floor to house the tender hook. Not one of my locos but a largely standard Hall I modified for a friend 30 odd years ago.  Also see lead ballast behind steps and the relocated suppressor/ capacitor.

Edited January 25, 2021 by DavidCBroad

[Kend]

Looks very good I have yet to close up the gap on my Star. I'll give this method a try.

[TRAILRAGE]

I have one of these That I tried making new sidebars for when I was to young to really know what I was doing. No longer works now but would like to try and resurrect one day. Really good to see people working with these. I've had thoughts about using a Replica or Bachmann Modified Hall Chassis but am unsure if the running gear was the same between Original and Modified Halls

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Cheers Trailrage

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by TRAILRAGE

[Kend]

Thanks for your comments. I have not been too well for a few weeks so work has stopped. I intend to use the Wizzard model's castle cylinders and fabricate the rest to fit the old hall chassis. Ken