Titan Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 29 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: There have been plenty of wood-burners in various parts of the world, I'm just not clear on what (how much) work would be needed to convert a coal-burning loco (compared to an oil conversion, for instance). Well for starters you need a much bigger firebox, and therefore completely new boiler, which would not fit within our loading gauge, at least for any locomotive big enough for main line use. Just take a look at this American wood burner, the firebox must be getting on for twice the diameter of the boiler! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, Titan said: Well for starters you need a much bigger firebox, and therefore completely new boiler, which would not fit within our loading gauge, at least for any locomotive big enough for main line use. Just take a look at this American wood burner, the firebox must be getting on for twice the diameter of the boiler! Are they different if they use briquettes rather than logs? I’m sure South Tynedale were doing one at one point but I don’t know whether that was already wood-burning. Bagasse is also used overseas, I don’t know what an equivalent would be here though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 48 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said: There have been plenty of wood-burners in various parts of the world, I'm just not clear on what (how much) work would be needed to convert a coal-burning loco (compared to an oil conversion, for instance). And then there's the fuel source to consider. I'm sure the collective contacts of the esteemed members of this forum arrange a (cough) diversion of one of the train loads of hopper wagons of wood pellets going to Drax Power Station? http://www.whdavis.co.uk/index.php/products/rail_freight_wagons/biomass_hopper_wagons/ Mange tout, Rodney, mange tout! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgood Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Who needs coal? 3 1 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Hmmm - Twin Interocitors !!!! brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2021 The electrically heated Swiss steam locos were 0-6-0 station pilots with OHLE powered elements to raise steam during WW2, when it was difficult for the country to import coal or oil. They were neutral but surrounded by axis countries on all borders, and the Germans did not export coal as it was needed for their war effort and home consumption. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2021 16 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said: Are they different if they use briquettes rather than logs? I’m sure South Tynedale were doing one at one point but I don’t know whether that was already wood-burning. Bagasse is also used overseas, I don’t know what an equivalent would be here though. Bagpuss? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckymucklebackit Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Here is a radical idea, lets complete the heritage process and actually dig the coal for the locomotives in the traditional manner, we have volunteer drivers, firemen and cleaners so why not have volunteer miners! Must be done using picks, shovels and sheer hard graft! Fancy going down the Big Pit National Coal Museum and actually digging coal, no? Didn't think so! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, luckymucklebackit said: Here is a radical idea, lets complete the heritage process and actually dig the coal for the locomotives in the traditional manner, we have volunteer drivers, firemen and cleaners so why not have volunteer miners! Must be done using picks, shovels and sheer hard graft! Fancy going down the Big Pit National Coal Museum and actually digging coal, no? Didn't think so! Well I've done a bit of helping to dig through a collapsed bit of tunnel in an old lead mine, using picks and shovels, and it being knee-deep in cold water at the start of the day (although we pumped enough of that out every time to be able to see what we were doing - the pump was the only powered equipment we had). That particular mine had tried a stationary steam engine to pump out a shaft, and with no record discovered of it having been sold it was hoped it might still be in there (it would've been a solid lump of rust by now, but interesting all the same). Turned out it wasn't (I was away unfortunately when we finally got through). Edited January 7, 2021 by Reorte 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
009 micro modeller Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, The Johnster said: Bagpuss? Sugar cane waste: https://www.farrail.com/pages/touren-engl/java-sugar-mill+cape-gauge-steam-2016.php 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2021 28 minutes ago, luckymucklebackit said: Here is a radical idea, lets complete the heritage process and actually dig the coal for the locomotives in the traditional manner, we have volunteer drivers, firemen and cleaners so why not have volunteer miners! Must be done using picks, shovels and sheer hard graft! Fancy going down the Big Pit National Coal Museum and actually digging coal, no? Didn't think so! I have actually mined real coal at Big Pit, a whole lump of the stuff. My current lump for wagon loads and bunkers was mined there by Tomparryharry! But you're right, volunteers for a shift down below would be scarce and the health and safety implications are considerable! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, Reorte said: Well I've done a bit of helping to dig through a collapsed bit of tunnel in an old lead mine, using picks and shovels, and it being knee-deep in cold water at the start of the day (although we pumped enough of that out every time to be able to see what we were doing - the pump was the only powered equipment we had). That particular mine had tried a stationary steam engine to pump out a shaft, and with no record discovered of it having been sold it was hoped it might still be in there (it would've been a solid lump of rust by now, but interesting all the same). Turned out it wasn't (I was away unfortunately when we finally got through). Coal mines are even less pleasant, as you have gas to contend with as well. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2021 Just now, The Johnster said: Coal mines are even less pleasant, as you have gas to contend with as well. Sometimes an issue in disused other sorts of mines (albeit different gases), although none that I've been in, or at least in the parts I've been in. I think modern gas detection equipment would be acceptable in a "heritage" operation, even if it wasn't mandated (which I imagine it almost certainly would be). I agree though, I've not been down any coal mines but the impression I've got is that a lead mine was a rather better place to work in. Still, I'd give it a go - we'd have to see whether I'd give it a second one after that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hilton Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 06/01/2021 at 10:02, jchinuk said: News here. jch Update here: https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/woodhouse-colliery-avoids-govt-call-in-for-second-time/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 19 hours ago, 009 micro modeller said: Are they different if they use briquettes rather than logs? I’m sure South Tynedale were doing one at one point but I don’t know whether that was already wood-burning. Bagasse is also used overseas, I don’t know what an equivalent would be here though. Willow has been grown to be burnt in generating plants in the UK; it's energy density is a lot lower than coal, however, so you'd have to have a lot of tenders... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, Fat Controller said: Willow has been grown to be burnt in generating plants in the UK; it's energy density is a lot lower than coal, however, so you'd have to have a lot of tenders... Would charcoal work? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Reorte said: Would charcoal work? It probably would, but you'd have to use a large amount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, Fat Controller said: It probably would, but you'd have to use a large amount. I was wondering because I think that the energy density of charcoal is fairly similar to coal. It's rather more brittle though, which might be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Makes me laugh all this green malarkey Watch the mile long coal trains going one way and the mile long "coke express" going the other, with all sorts of other freight / intermodal / double stack trains in between Coal / coke trains run seven days a week. Use the scroll bar to go back 12 hours. The Yanks don't give a to55, like China / India etc Brit15 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2021 37 minutes ago, Reorte said: Would charcoal work? Wouldn’t it burn too hot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, boxbrownie said: Wouldn’t it burn too hot? Just looked it up and it looks like it. It's a more efficient fuel than coal but I suppose you'd have to design the locomotive (or the firebox at least) around it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 7, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 7, 2021 What about coke, the orignal fuel used by railway locomotives? It was abandoned because fireboxes for coal were cheaper to built and coal was more readily available, but it produced less smoke and burned for longer before reducing to ash, reducing to less ash as well making disposal and fire cleaning easier. The cost is in replacing the firebox, which now has to be copper, but it already is on some older locos. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, The Johnster said: What about coke, the orignal fuel used by railway locomotives? It was abandoned because fireboxes for coal were cheaper to built and coal was more readily available, but it produced less smoke and burned for longer before reducing to ash, reducing to less ash as well making disposal and fire cleaning easier. The cost is in replacing the firebox, which now has to be copper, but it already is on some older locos. But you need coal to make coke. Perhaps whoever supplies our steel works could supply ? Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted January 8, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 8, 2021 12 hours ago, APOLLO said: But you need coal to make coke. Perhaps whoever supplies our steel works could supply ? That brings us back to the new Cumbrian mine mentioned earlier. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted January 8, 2021 Share Posted January 8, 2021 Just noticed that Accurascale are ahead of the game and have announced IIA Biomass Bogie Hoppers. https://accurascale.co.uk/collections/iia-biomass-bogie-hoppers Presumably, to carry the biomass to fuel the locos that are pulling the IIA Biomass Bogie Hoppers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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