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Jack

O Gauge Modular Standard Discussion

  

46 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you be interested in building a module?

    • with a single track standard gauge connection
      25
    • with a double track connection
      7
    • including some sort of narrow gauge
      8
    • nah ...
      6


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Edit : I've seperated the rules here, which can now be found here

 

There seem to be a lot of really good O guage layouts appearing on RMWeb. This seems especially the case with the micro layouts.

 

So how about some form of connection standard? If we agreed on a universal connector then at events such as the members day or local meet-ups we could hook layouts together Freemo style. This might also make it easier for others to build a module rather than a whole layout.

 

The Gauge O Guild do have a double track standard in their reportoire however I would have reservations about this ... 1) its double track ... 2) the board design would make it limiting for anyone wanting to use the open frame method, tortoise motors etc. ... 3) only one of the GOG groups ever used it!

 

I was therefore thinking of a single track connections 6" long. One end would connect to the members layout in whichever way they saw fit, the other would be a standard connector, specifying the following ...

 

... inside front rail position in relation to the front of the connector.

... position of the clasps or coach bolt holes.

... rail height above floor or table.

 

As an added interest we could consider making it either dual gauge or double track with one line being narrow gauge?

 

I know the SAG narrow gauge scheme didn't get off the drawing board, but perhaps things have changed in the 7mm world sufficiently to give this a go?

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As an added interest we could consider making it either dual gauge or double track with one line being narrow gauge?

Nice idea - although I'm not sure it'd work, Scale7 standard gauge and narrow gauge (32mm) might look a little incongruous!

Regards

 

Adrian

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Nice idea - although I'm not sure it'd work, Scale7 standard gauge and narrow gauge (32mm) might look a little incongruous!

Regards

 

Adrian

 

:lol::rolleyes:

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As an added interest we could consider making it either dual gauge or double track with one line being narrow gauge?

 

I'm not an O scale modeller, but I am already working in Freemo in HO - if I could be so bold as to throw a thought or two out. You could dilute all of this to KISS if you wanted a guiding principle! biggrin.gif

 

1. If you have double track standard it's **much** harder to create a compliant modular joint - i.e. if somebody builds a single track board and the track is 3mm off-centre then it's not ideal, but it actually doesn't matter much - the result is the fascias not lining up by 3mm, no biggie - Single track freemo is by it's nature a very forgiving standard. However if you have a double track and one track is 3mm out then your board will not connect. That said we have a double track standard in use, but we use a template to make sure track centres etc are sorted.

 

2. If you have double track and one of them is standard and the other is narrow gauge (or in fact the same goes for a single, dual gauge track with one shared rail) then it will not work with basic Freemo concepts as you have just made the joins directional, IE the boards have to connect one way round only for the two gauges to connect to the same gauge on the other board.

 

If you're talking about a standard, it needs to be the minimum needed for your modules to work together, not something that goes on for pages and covers as many bespoke/exotic arrangements as possible - remember KISS. wink.gif

 

Good luck!

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2. If you have double track and one of them is standard and the other is narrow gauge (or in fact the same goes for a single, dual gauge track with one shared rail) then it will not work with basic Freemo concepts as you have just made the joins directional, IE the boards have to connect one way round only for the two gauges to connect to the same gauge on the other board.

 

A good point, thank you Martyn!

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Glad there has been some interested ... specifically towards a single track connection standard.

 

Another thing to consider, which occured to me 'tother day. What about electrickery?

 

Do we try and cater for Analogue and DCC?

What about dead sections for storing locos?

Should all point, signal and magnet control be local?

 

Any thoughts?

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In answer to your questions...

 

1) Difficult - I plan to go DCC but not everyone will. However, I would suggest the best solution to be stick with "conventional" wiring with isolating sections etc, because then if the choice is to run DCC then you simply turn all power sections on.

 

2) See above

 

3) Definitely each section/s (all built by the same people) should be self-contained as far as points, signal etc go, otherwise it's just going to be far too complicated. There may even be scenic sections that contain no points or signals whatsoever, of course.

 

I do quite like the idea of this sectional O gauge - especially as you could just stick a 4ft (or whatever) storage yard, traverser or cassette system on each end of your modules and operate at home (or exhibtions) as a stand-alone layout.

 

Have you thought about a 'forced' scenic break at each end of the layout, so that you don't suddenly get a hilly section scenery turning into a recreation of the sea wall at Dawlish, next to a snow-covered section? Even if it's only 3" each end of a 6" high painted black fascia (or whatever convention is chosen) with an embankment, road bridge or tunnel leading to it, or just some trees or a building, to disguise the fact it's there?

 

 

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Have you thought about a 'forced' scenic break at each end of the layout, so that you don't suddenly get a hilly section scenery turning into a recreation of the sea wall at Dawlish, next to a snow-covered section? Even if it's only 3" each end of a 6" high painted black fascia (or whatever convention is chosen) with an embankment, road bridge or tunnel leading to it, or just some trees or a building, to disguise the fact it's there?

 

A good point! I think the GOG specify a 6" section but i'd have to go back and have a look.

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Although I'm already building a layout (a terminus so it won't easily fit in this even if the standards worked), I'd be quite interested in building a module should there ever be some sort of 'get together' that I can get to.

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As a recent "convert" to 7 mm (I still do 3.5 mm too ;)) with a main interest in Welsh NG (F&WHR) I too would like a module standard for On14. Unfortunately, there are a number of issues, first and foremost: not everyone

a* has an interest in On14 and

b* that does model 0n14 has an interest in doing this on modules...

 

The SAG proposals for a 7mm NG modular system on RMWeb v3 seemed to come to very little. I think one of the difficulties of including narrow gauge is which one to pick O16.5, O14, O9 etc.

 

However, there is nothing to say a 7mm standard gauge modular couldn't be a straight through piece of standard gauge track with the rest of the module being a self contained O14 layout ... i'm toying with similar ideas in O16.5!

 

Having experience with modular layouts, I'm a 18 yr veteran of a club who uses modules exclusively, I won't mind having a go at some first proposals, unless others get there before me ;) (and please do, saves me time ;))

 

My proposal, including drawing of a connecting board, is nearly finished ... everyone may ridicule it, but atleast it will be a starting point for us.

 

The fact that 5 people have now shown interest via the poll is helpful :)

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Have just added my vote to this poll.

 

A thought or two on connecting modules together - if all modules were , say, 4 inches from table to top of rail, then modules could be linked together using just a short length of O gauge track. This would need to be on it's own support block, but each end would just need to be a set-track type of fishplated joint.

 

Thus the modules themselves wouldn't need to link, so no problem in defining bolt-holes, etc. Electrically the layouts would have a plug/ socket at each end to link to the neighbouring link section.

 

post-7025-127807627406.jpg

 

The red track is the module track, the green is the link piece.

 

Stu

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Alrighty, below is my first attempt at an end plate ... any thoughts?

 

The shaded area at the top is a 12mm section to allow for the top of the baseboard. Peco track would thus sit on top of that. Or perhaps we should just be defining the distance between rail top and bolt centre?

 

I envisage the modules having an end back scene of some description rather than flowing from one to the other scenically. As cromptonnut pointed out, it would look odd if the snow covered module ended up next to Dawlish Warren!

 

I have made the connection board 6" deep so those of us wishing to use tortoise motors don't get into trouble (something not considered when the GOG came up with their standard).

 

Electrickery wise i suggest we keep it simple, two wire through put with the red (positive) wire facing the front of the layout. Not sure what type of joiner to use yet tho.

 

ALL points need to be electrofrog and wired to the accepted standard for DCC. Not doing this might exclude those using DCC.

 

Points and signals to be controlled locally for each module. If the layout is DCC, these need to be able to be isolated from the track bus in case we have a DC meet up.

 

post-7154-127807691955.jpg

 

The only other thing i can think of atm is the issue of rail height to floor or table top? What do we do about legs?

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Stu, you posted just as i was writing mine.

 

I like the idea. Would we need to do something to prevent ware and tare on the joining tracks? I've seen this sort of thing done on some OO exhibition layouts and after a wile the ends do get rather warn.

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Jack,

 

There may be something that needs to be done, but as O gauge track is of a heavier code than OO (has this been considered, which profile/Code of rail ?) then it may be strong enough to withstand prolonged use. Also if the ends of the module track are kept within the edge of the baseboard, so the joining track rests on the module board, rather than the traditional rail-to-edge-of-board concept, it may help with the longevity.

 

Stu

 

(Main reason for this suggestion is I can't make an end plate to those sorts of tolerances.....)

 

Edit: Perhaps my 4" suggestion was too low, as you've mentioned 6" would allow tortoise motors.

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(Main reason for this suggestion is I can't make an end plate to those sorts of tolerances.....)

 

I can't either which is why i was toying with the idea of getting a few machined out of good grade plywood ...

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Time flies when you're working procrastinating!

 

Right, having marvelled at the works of the Cheshire Modellers On30 layout I'd like to propose we go with Stu's (Stubby47) idea of joining the modules with a short piece of track.

 

So, the rules ...

 

1) Use of standard Peco Bullhead Code 124 Rail [ref. SL-700BH] at the module

 

2) The join between modules is made with metal fishplates and a 6" or 150mm single section of Peco code 124 rail (or compatable) on some form of supporting base (ie not just 6" of track suspended in the ether)

 

3) The base of the rail should be 6.5" / 165mm above the 'table' height - this is to allow the use of Tortoise or other slow action motors, or to allow a more interesting gradient to the scenery (ie culverts, over bridges).

 

4) Point control and isolating sections are to be controlled locally to each module

 

5) Track power is in the form of two wires with the positive (red) wire to the rail at the front of the layout. Modules should be electrically joined using 'choc' blocks.

 

6) All wires used on the layout for track power should be a minimum of 16/02mm to cope with DCC power ratings if necessary.

 

7) Modules can be whatever length and width the builder likes as long as the can be joined using rules 1-3.

 

I have plans for a self contained module just under 8 feet in length and about a foot in width, details will appear hopefully in the next few weeks.

 

Does anyone have any comments or suggestions on the above before i ask our glorious leader for a sticky thread? Since a single line seems to be the most popular i think we should follow that.

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Jack,

 

Do you have a proposed get-together planned ? (eg The Captain's Party next April ?)

 

If so, I'd be happy to make a short module.

 

As an anecdotal story, I became a member of the YMR forum, about 2 weeks before their show in early September. The module layout there was connected together with 2 separate 4" bridges, one for each of the running lines, and it worked brilliantly.

 

Stu

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Nothing is planned as I haven't got the boards sorted yet ... I have, however, acquired the track!

 

A proposed meet would give us a target to work too (something i often need to get things done).

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I became a member of the YMR forum, about 2 weeks before their show in early September. The module layout there was connected together with 2 separate 4" bridges, one for each of the running lines, and it worked brilliantly.

...and he built a module in that two weeks too! :O

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Jack,

 

Do you have a proposed get-together planned ? (eg The Captain's Party next April ?)

 

 

Member's Day next July?

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Members day in July could be a better plan, jut found out i won't be available for the Swag meet :angry:

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I've spoken with Andy Y and he said there will be room if we want to get some modules up and running for Stafford at the beginning of July. Is anyone up for this?

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Sorry, as much as I'd like to, I can't get to Stafford next July.

 

Stu

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Just coming back to this one, is there to be a presence at Stafford?

 

if so, I am taking Fourgig East so it would be nice to connect it up, but it's handbuilt track. I do have a length of Peco BH flexi, so I assume if I make a suitable bridging unit that can dock to my board and then connect to another using fishplates that would be okay?

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