How do I disable CV 29 for DIY stay alive.

[posneg6]

Hi knowledgable ones, I'm stuck on trying to get my stay alive's working. I read in a few different places that I have to change  value in CV11 to "0." and I managed that, however how do I disable CV 29? but I can't find out how to do that?

 I've constructed a a couple of different Stay alive's and they hold a charge long enough to keep a 9V LED torch going for a few seconds.

The two different Stay alive's are as follows;

8 x 220uf @25volt Tantalum caps in parallel, effectively 1,760uf. connected to TCS T1blue and black stay alive wires.

the other is 2x 2,200uf 16volt poly caps in parallel, effectively 4,400uf soldered to blue and black contacts on the decoder socket.

My system is Rocco z21 the white one. the track voltage is 17.9 volts. Thats why I really should be using 20 or 25 volt caps. 

I hope there is a simple answer but I won't hold my breath, I can't really get my head around packets and bits an bytes.

With Rocco nothing is easy Touchwood! Cheers in advance 

[Oldddudders]

CV29 gives a decoder its 'personality' - 2 or 4 digit addressing, DC-enabled etc. I cannot imagine how or why you'd want to disable it?

[Dungrange]

3 minutes ago, posneg6 said:

how do I disable CV 29? but I can't find out how to do that?

 

You can't disable CV29 - its used to control a number of choices - direction, speed steps, DC operation, Railcom, speed curves and long or short address.  Each is on/off and the choices you set define the number in CV29.  I assume what you want to do is turn off DC operation.

 

Read the current value of CV29 and type it into calculator below.  This will tell you what options are currently set up.  Uncheck the DC operation box (which means that the loco will no longer work on a DC layout) and then update the calculation and set CV to the new number.  This means that the only change you will make will be to disable DC running.

 

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29 calculator.htm

[posneg6]

Hi In Wiki DCC Energy Storage it says 

CV Changes
For proper operation, disable the Analog Conversion mode (in CV29), and set the packet timeout value in CV11 to "0." I read that elsewhere too. 

[RAF96]

You  cannot ‘disable’ CV29. What you are being advised to do is disable DC running in CV29.

The simplest way is to use a CV29 calculator to find out the decimal number to write to it.

see here...

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29 calculator.htm

 

 

Edit - Dungrange was typing at the same time, hence the duplication.

Edited August 6, 2021 by RAF96

[posneg6]

2 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

You  cannot ‘disable’ CV29. What you are being advised to do is disable DC running in CV29.

The simplest way is to use a CV29 calculator to find out the decimal number to write to it.

see here...

http://www.2mm.org.uk/articles/cv29 calculator.htm

 

Brilliant, Thanks for that I'll try 6 in cv29 see if that works. If not I'll use a long stick to prod the locos when they stall on points. 

Thanks fo your help.  

[Nigelcliffe]

20 minutes ago, posneg6 said:

..............

The two different Stay alive's are as follows;

8 x 220uf @25volt Tantalum caps in parallel, effectively 1,760uf. connected to TCS T1blue and black stay alive wires.

the other is 2x 2,200uf 16volt poly caps in parallel, effectively 4,400uf soldered to blue and black contacts on the decoder socket.

...............

 

 

 

 

No mention of charging or discharging components to control current flow ?  (Though they may be present in the photos which appeared later, RMWeb seems very slow today).     
The TCS commercial KA units have a couple of components which control current flow, otherwise the stay-alive will risk either overloading the decoder rectifier, or the DCC system when charging.   Typical minimum is a diode and a resistor, though there are other ways.  

 

10 minutes ago, posneg6 said:

Hi In Wiki DCC Energy Storage it says 

CV Changes
For proper operation, disable the Analog Conversion mode (in CV29), and set the packet timeout value in CV11 to "0." I read that elsewhere too. 

 

Don't take a lot of what in various Wiki sites as accurate.   Its often not.     In this case you're mis-reading what is written.     Anything about CV11 will be "decoder maker specific".   

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Nigelcliffe

[Stephen Freeman]

It would be much easier for you if you used a real TCS  KA1 and it would take up less room. Only CV182 to set to 2.

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, posneg6 said:

Brilliant, Thanks for that I'll try 6 in cv29 see if that works. If not I'll use a long stick to prod the locos when they stall on points. 

Thanks for your help.  

 

A Value of 6 in CV29 means that the decoder is set to 28/128 speed steps and DC operation is enabled.  Direction is normal, you are using a short address with no speed table and Railcom is not enabled.  If you want to disable analogue operation, then you need another number.  If all of these other choices are correct for your locomotive, then you should be using 2 - ie just the 28/128 speed step setting.

[jpendle]

Assuming that you are using the Z21 app, then it gives you the option to change any individual bit in CV29 without you having to do any calculations.

In the app, read CV29, then change the DC operation bit to 0 and write it back to the decoder.

 

Regards,

 

John P

Edited August 6, 2021 by jpendle
Clarity

[posneg6]

10 hours ago, jpendle said:

Assuming that you are using the Z21 app, then it gives you the option to change any individual bit in CV29 without you having to do any calculations.

In the app, read CV29, then change the DC operation bit to 0 and write it back to the decoder.

 

Regards,

 

John P

Sorry you lost me when you said Assuming, Sadly all this Bit and Byte stuff is not a natural thing for me, it literally makes my brain hurt. Give me a tricky 3 phase 440Volt switchboard  to fix and I'm happy.

[posneg6]

Thanks for everyones help and suggestions. I have exhausted the variations in CV 29. so I'm back to the drawing board with my Stay alive units. I'm a very tactile electrician, I have no training in electronics but I am slowly learning. I will as suggested buy a couple of ready made stay alives to prove that they will work on my system, However I get a lot of satisfaction from making things and the cost of 40 RTR stay alives is more than I can afford when I can get 20 Tantalum caps for a few bucks. 

Many thanks for all the help offered, what a great knowledge bank this is.

A work in progress.

[Pete the Elaner]

14 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Don't take a lot of what in various Wiki sites as accurate.   Its often not.     In this case you're mis-reading what is written.     Anything about CV11 will be "decoder maker specific".   

 

 

I completely agree.

 

Information in wikis are added by contributors like you & me. Nobody really knows who has added what. They are great that if you see anything you know is wrong, you can simply correct it, so the information will have come from more than one person, which is great. The problem is that if I see something I BELIEVE is wrong, I can update it with what I BELIEVE is correct. If I am mistaken, then I will have updated the wiki with incorrect information.

 

6 minutes ago, posneg6 said:

Sorry you lost me when you said Assuming, Sadly all this Bit and Byte stuff is not a natural thing for me, it literally makes my brain hurt. Give me a tricky 3 phase 440Volt switchboard  to fix and I'm happy.

 

If you are able to connect a PC, Mac or Linux machine to your Z21, then I recommend JMRI. It is written by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.

Instead of changing things by their bits, it gives them in plain English, like a check box for allowing DC running & radio buttons to choose whether you use long or short addresses (& you can obviously read the addresses) Adjusting sound volumes is simply a matter of moving sliders.. It will even give you CV values in decimal if you want to see them all listed.

I can't remember the last time I programmed something with a handset. Much easier to use JMRI on the PC & it automatically keeps a record of my CVs so if someone at the club changes some (which has happened), I can just re-apply them.

[posneg6]

39 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I completely agree.

 

Information in wikis are added by contributors like you & me. Nobody really knows who has added what. They are great that if you see anything you know is wrong, you can simply correct it, so the information will have come from more than one person, which is great. The problem is that if I see something I BELIEVE is wrong, I can update it with what I BELIEVE is correct. If I am mistaken, then I will have updated the wiki with incorrect information.

 

 

If you are able to connect a PC, Mac or Linux machine to your Z21, then I recommend JMRI. It is written by enthusiasts for enthusiasts.

Instead of changing things by their bits, it gives them in plain English, like a check box for allowing DC running & radio buttons to choose whether you use long or short addresses (& you can obviously read the addresses) Adjusting sound volumes is simply a matter of moving sliders.. It will even give you CV values in decimal if you want to see them all listed.

I can't remember the last time I programmed something with a handset. Much easier to use JMRI on the PC & it automatically keeps a record of my CVs so if someone at the club changes some (which has happened), I can just re-apply them.

Thanks I'll have a look at it. I must say that I find it's all getting very much over complex for me. a comparison that makes sense to me as I'm an electrician is the smart wiring in homes, I did a smart home in Palm beach a few years ago it cost $50,000 for the equipment and caused a lot of problems for the owner who range me and said "I just want to turn a bloody ceiling fan on and now every light in the house is flashing the pool cover is opening and closing as are the garage doors!". I like to keep thing simple cause I'm simple.

 

[WIMorrison]

I have to say that I run H0e with is effectively N-Gauge but with larger locos (but same chassis) and not one has a stay-alive and not one stops anywhere on my layout, not even on the turnouts.

 

I suggest that you should look at any track issues that cause locos to need stay-alives before you start causing yourself headaches, pain and expense from fitting stay-alive circuitry to all of your locos.