Suffolk Dave Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Please excuse my lack of knowledge and grasp of the correct terminology here but I was hoping some of you might be able to offer an opinion on this track plan of Gorleston on Sea station, in Norfolk. The images below are from the National Library of Scotland's excellent on-line OS map archive and are from a map dated in the early 20th century. There is a small loop positioned on the running lines between the southern end of platforms and the entrance to the goods yard. May be I can't see the wood for the trees but this permanent way arrangement looks a little over engineered. Surely, trains traveling in either direction could reverse into the goods yard with fewer turnouts? For further info, the left most track of the three is a line that leaves the mainline further south and runs towards the good yard. I'd be grateful if anyone can shed any light on this arrangement. The 'strange little loop' in detail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 This was quite a usual arrangement. The yard can be accessed by trains coming from either direction, but neither of the running lines contain a facing point. These were carefully avoided following the derailment at Wigan of 3 August 1873. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 I think you will find the southern end of your "loop" is not a loop as there is a diamond crossing between the two turnouts. This gives a trailing entrance to the bay platform / goods yard from the right hand south bound track, while the two points at the north end of the "loop" give a train entrance to the goods yard from the left hand north bound track. Gordon A 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Gordon A said: I think you will find the southern end of your "loop" is not a loop as there is a diamond crossing between the two turnouts. This gives a trailing entrance to the bay platform / goods yard from the right hand south bound track, while the two points at the north end of the "loop" give a train entrance to the goods yard from the left hand north bound track. It could well be a single slip, forming a trailing crossover between the running lines. As @LMS2968 says, it's an absolutely bog-standard layout: 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted September 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2021 Someone made of model of this station. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted September 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2021 3 hours ago, LMS2968 said: This was quite a usual arrangement. The yard can be accessed by trains coming from either direction, but neither of the running lines contain a facing point. These were carefully avoided following the derailment at Wigan of 3 August 1873. It's slightly more complicated than that as the plan in this post from the thread @Kris linked shows. There is the standard double ended siding, with trailing connection to the down line over a single slip at the other end of the yard, as OP said, and to the up line near the platforms. However, there is an additional trailing connection from the down line directly to the dock siding at the up end of the yard. A similar connection appears in the first sketch posted by @Compound2632, though in that case directly from the adjacent running line due to the orientation of the station, but not in the second. Is this perhaps to allow quick access to the dock by passenger trains attaching or detaching tail traffic, regardless of wagons standing in the rest of the yard? 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Flying Pig said: Is this perhaps to allow quick access to the dock by passenger trains attaching or detaching tail traffic, regardless of wagons standing in the rest of the yard? Yes, probably not just passenger trains. Such tail traffic would be marshalled at the head of the train. Edited September 17, 2021 by Compound2632 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 11 hours ago, Flying Pig said: It's slightly more complicated than that as the plan in this post from the thread @Kris linked shows. There is the standard double ended siding, with trailing connection to the down line over a single slip at the other end of the yard, as OP said, and to the up line near the platforms. However, there is an additional trailing connection from the down line directly to the dock siding at the up end of the yard. A similar connection appears in the first sketch posted by @Compound2632, though in that case directly from the adjacent running line due to the orientation of the station, but not in the second. Is this perhaps to allow quick access to the dock by passenger trains attaching or detaching tail traffic, regardless of wagons standing in the rest of the yard? The two points I was making were that this was a common arrangement and that was because it avoided the use of facing points on a running line. A similar situation occurred at the south end of Bridgnorth station. Up trains bound for the yard ran through a trailing connection and then set back through that connection; they did not encroach on to the Down line, even though the Up and Down running lines combined into single track about thirty yards further south. I in preservation, this complex pointwork was replaced by a single connection, which serves the purpose. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted September 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2021 I would hazard a guess the ‘points’ are a single slip which thus doubles as traps to protect the main line, so there is no run round. Just the dock road can be accessed by both directions as has been suggested. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, Izzy said: I would hazard a guess the ‘points’ are a single slip which thus doubles as traps to protect the main line, so there is no run round. Just the dock road can be accessed by both directions as has been suggested. I don't think so. There is a short run round, though that's not the primary purpose of the layout. I think in practice the dock (and indeed the whole goods yard) would only be shunted by southbound trains, avoiding the faff of running round at all. (The goods train would stand on the running line while shunting was carried out.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 Not sure on that. The yard could be accessed by trains from either direction, and running around could be performed on the main line via the trailing crossover near the footbridge, positioned this far away to allow it. Leaving part of the train on the main line to put down / pick up wagons was certainly an option, but very dependent on the traffic situation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted September 18, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 18, 2021 If you look at the layout topic, there is a prototype plan included which shows a further trailing crossover, complete with single slip, below the plan and not seen on the one illustrated above. There are three tracks going off the bottom of the plan and these are all connected together further down. That makes it an absolutely typical layout, quite capable of being shunted without complex moves. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.snowdon Posted September 18, 2021 Share Posted September 18, 2021 It's an absolutely classic 'no facing points' layout that would almost certainly have been shunted only by trains heading south toward Lowestoft, reversing in off the southbound line. The same applies to the connection in to the bay. It is true that it could be shunted by a northbound train, ie towards Yarmouth, but that would be a right faff, involving running round the train twice, which just wastes everyone's time (and money). Lowestoft North was the only other station on the line to have significant goods facilities, and it has all the appearance of being best shunted by northbound trains. I would not be surprised if its goods service was run as an out and back from either Lowestoft to Great Yarmouth or vice versa. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suffolk Dave Posted September 19, 2021 Author Share Posted September 19, 2021 A big thanks to all those who responded to my query about Gorleston-on-Sea's track plan. The responses have helped greatly in understanding the permanent way arrangements and practices - the avoidance of facing points on the running lines being a key one. It was also interesting to read of the likelihood that the goods yard would only have been served from southbound trains. That's an insight into railway practice that doesn't leap out the track plan; well, to my eyes at least! You've probably guessed that my curiosity comes from thoughts about modelling the station and to that end I need to track down some books on the line to further my research. Any recommendations? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted September 19, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2021 (edited) This was a joint line between the GE & M&GN, Norfolk & Suffolk Joint, allowing the M&GN access to Lowestoft, so perhaps the Middleton branch line book histories might have something along with M&GN based ones. ps. Ah, branch lines around Lowestoft (Middleton press) seems to cover it, but finding one will be the issue. Edited September 19, 2021 by Izzy add info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 The wonderful Britain From Above website contains a number of views of Garleston, in both 1927 and 1948, but sadly they concentrate on the seafront, River Yare and the bread factory. The station only appears in the distant background, but shows a busy yard, but the crucial areas are hidden by the signal box, trees and other buildings. This is one of the better views, from 1948. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted September 19, 2021 Share Posted September 19, 2021 12 minutes ago, Izzy said: This was a joint line between the GE & M&GN, Norfolk & Suffolk Joint, allowing the M&GN access to Lowestoft, so perhaps the Middleton branch line book histories might have something along with M&GN based ones. This is the one you want, according to their station finder function. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted September 19, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 19, 2021 There are also some shots at Gorleston on the East Anglian railway archive website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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