Class 03 Match Wagons

[Johann Marsbar]

Chapter and verse from my 1972 Eastern Region (Southern Area) Sectional Appendix.....

 

Shunting Locomotives - Operation of Track Circuits

"Owing to gaps in track circuiting, locomotives with a wheelbase of 8ft 6in or less must not travel over Main Running lines unless working with one vehicle attached"

 

Key point is Main Running lines so yard trackage would not requre match wagons or other vehicles to be attached.

 

It does quote the "Doncaster signalling installation" as having different rules that covered a wider area and not just "Main Running lines"

 

 

[iands]

On 08/01/2022 at 14:32, Ken.W said:

 

Yes, always. They were required due to their short wheelbase, to ensure operation of track cicuits in various locations.

They were usually ex Confalts

Hi Ken,

Except I have a couple of photos of 03s at York without a 'runner', as shown below. Yes, in each case the 03 is coupled to another vehicle, but only because the 03 is on a 'pilot duty' and I assume the 03 would have run from the depot to the yard/station "on its own" with no other vehicle attached.

 

D2046 trip working York Yard South to Rowntrees(?) 25/06/1964

 

D2103 York station south end (No date)

[iands]

3 hours ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Chapter and verse from my 1972 Eastern Region (Southern Area) Sectional Appendix.....

 

Shunting Locomotives - Operation of Track Circuits

"Owing to gaps in track circuiting, locomotives with a wheelbase of 8ft 6in or less must not travel over Main Running lines unless working with one vehicle attached"

 

Key point is Main Running lines so yard trackage would not requre match wagons or other vehicles to be attached.

 

It does quote the "Doncaster signalling installation" as having different rules that covered a wider area and not just "Main Running lines"

 

 

In a bit more detail, extracts from BR Eastern Region (Northern Section) Sectional Appendices. The instruction for "one vehicle attached" went back at least to 1960, possibly even earlier. It is interesting to note how the instruction changed/developed over the years.

 

I haven't been able to find any corresponding instruction for the "Great Eastern" area but my access to Sectional Appendices for that area is a bit limited. 

 

shunting loco_operation of TCs.pdf

 

 

[phil_sutters]

This one is within a major station's limits

 

[Johann Marsbar]

9 minutes ago, iands said:

In a bit more detail, extracts from BR Eastern Region (Northern Section) Sectional Appendices. The instruction for "one vehicle attached" went back at least to 1960, possibly even earlier. It is interesting to note how the instruction changed/developed over the years.

 

I haven't been able to find any corresponding instruction for the "Great Eastern" area but my access to Sectional Appendices for that area is a bit limited. 

 

shunting loco_operation of TCs.pdf 429.98 kB · 0 downloads

 

 

The 1972 one for the Northern Area is identical to the Southern Area entry as far as I can see as I omitted all the Doncaster details - though I've put my copy away upstairs now!

Strange that the half-barrier crossing restriction only appeared in the 1969 version and not the later ones.

[iands]

7 minutes ago, Johann Marsbar said:

Strange that the half-barrier crossing restriction only appeared in the 1969 version and not the later ones.

Yes, I thought that. I'm not certain, but could be that after (or during) 1969 the operation of AHBs was enhanced by the use of treadles rather than just track circuits - can anyone confirm this?

[Rivercider]

10 hours ago, KLee55 said:

Yes, I was asking whether class 03s would have worked short local freight to and from docks without the marker wagon.

I did not often visit East Anglia, but  here in 1981 03179 has taken the match wagon back to Ipswich stabling point.

Ipswich stabling point 03179 6/7/81

 

cheers 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Rivercider
spelling

[MidlandRed]

28 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

This one is within a major station's limits

 

I don’t recall seeing the 03 pilots at and around Birmingham New St running with match wagons - or for that matter other examples on the LMR of class 04s (eg D2258 at Derby; or D2220 at Bescot). However these observations pre-date the TOPS era. 

[Johann Marsbar]

Not an 03 but an 04, I've found this one on a USB stick here which I believe was taken by "Crewcastrian" (as he is known on Flickr) and he let me have for a Museum booklet on the Ipswich Dock lines that never got produced.....

 

 

This is taken on the sidings near Ransomes & Rapiers Works, accessed from Halifax Junction.  As the loco has had to operate from Upper Yard through the Station & Tunnel to get there, it has a match wagon attached.....

"Crewcastrian" has quite a few Ipswich area photos on Flickr from the 1970's/80's so there are most probably others of the 03/04 shunters on there.

 

EDIT: He has got a photo online with an 04, without match wagon, sitting in the centre road at Ipswich Station!

 

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Johann Marsbar
added photo

[Hal Nail]

44 minutes ago, MidlandRed said:

I don’t recall seeing the 03 pilots at and around Birmingham New St running with match wagons - or for that matter other examples on the LMR of class 04s (eg D2258 at Derby; or D2220 at Bescot). However these observations pre-date the TOPS era. 

Quote from the other thread:  "IIRC the 03 had a 9' wheelbase. Track circuits on the LMR were designed to cover anything from 8'6" upwards, so runners would not be needed on that region."

[EddieB]

When the Saffron Walden branch was dieselised, Cambridge-allocated class 03s were out-based to work freight between the main line junction at Audley End and Saffron Walden and trip workings to/from the Acrow factory (just north of Saffron Walden).  There was also an occasion that an 03 took a passenger excursion to Bartlow.  These were worked without runners, but bearing in mind that this was a single-track branch line operated with tokens, I'm wondering whether track circuiting was ever an issue.  

[Dagworth]

4 hours ago, Rivercider said:

I did not often visit East Anglia, but  here in 1981 03179 has taken the match wagon back to Ipswich stabling point.

Ipswich stabling point 03179 6/7/81

 

cheers 

Note that the Ipswich runner wagons (match wagons I always knew them as) had air brake pipes run across them although I think the wagons themselves were vacuum only. From memory they also had electric lights on the non-loco end with a cable running back to the loco.

 

Edit to add photo that shows my memory is correct!

03059 

 

03179 with the addition of rotary beacon light on the cab roof for working in the docks.

 

03399 again with beacon

 

Andi 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Dagworth

[EddieB]

27 minutes ago, Dagworth said:

Note that the Ipswich runner wagons (match wagons I always knew them as) had air brake pipes run across them although I think the wagons themselves were vacuum only. From memory they also had electric lights on the non-loco end with a cable running back to the loco.

Andi - nice pics, but do you have dates to go with them?

[Dagworth]

Just now, EddieB said:

Andi - nice pics, but do you have dates to go with them?

Only what may be on Flickr where I found them, they should all be hotlinks back to the original photos.

 

Andi

[Ken.W]

On 09/01/2022 at 17:13, Johann Marsbar said:

Strange that the half-barrier crossing restriction only appeared in the 1969 version and not the later ones.

 

I had another read of those instructions kindly posted by iands, and it seems the later instructions that they

"must not travel over Main Running lines unless working with at least one other vehicle attached"

would cover sections with AHBs anyway without need for specific instructions

[6990WitherslackHall]

Just discovered this. This has helped me a lot.

[Artless Bodger]

Most of the photos show runners converted from conflats with 3 sets of brackets on top - like the old Triang one - were conflat L prefered, or just happened to be redundant from their intended traffic?

[Fat Controller]

14 hours ago, Artless Bodger said:

Most of the photos show runners converted from conflats with 3 sets of brackets on top - like the old Triang one - were conflat L prefered, or just happened to be redundant from their intended traffic?

The latter, I think. Both Diagrams of Conflat L were used; the one that looked like an 'A', and one with low sides like a Lowfit.

 

[45125]

3 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

The latter, I think. Both Diagrams of Conflat L were used; the one that looked like an 'A', and one with low sides like a Lowfit.

 

Most of the ones we had at BG were Conflat A, with one L.

 

Al Taylor

[stewartingram]

BWK8003/4 BR Conflat L – Mousa Models (mousa-models.co.uk)

 

For those not aware of this. Mousa Models Conflat L, available as a shunter runner, or with containers included. I've had one of these, for years, must get round to building it.

 

Stewart

[Gilbert]

2 hours ago, stewartingram said:

For those not aware of this. Mousa Models Conflat L, available as a shunter runner, or with containers included. I've had one of these, for years, must get round to building it.

 

Stewart

Funny you should say that....

Chris

[russ p]

3 hours ago, stewartingram said:

BWK8003/4 BR Conflat L – Mousa Models (mousa-models.co.uk)

 

For those not aware of this. Mousa Models Conflat L, available as a shunter runner, or with containers included. I've had one of these, for years, must get round to building it.

 

Stewart

 

Does anyone do a plastic kit of a runner? I can't understand why Bachmann don't do a RTR one. I'm sure it would sell. There was a yellow one a few years back but I don't think it was very prototypical