19th century workbench

[dikitriki]

 

 

I wish the UK market could have kits that are to the same standard.....

 

A kit manufacturer that knows the springs are not avaialable - then provides tha parts for you to make them up!

 

Unheard of in the UK market!

 

 

 

Not so.

 

Take a look at David Parkins' kits. Working leaf springs and all the detail you can possibly want. http://www.djparkins.clara.net/mmp/mmpmast.htm

 

Richard

[dajt]

I've made a start on the D wagon and so far it is going together quite well. The fit of the parts I've worked on is not far from perfect and the clean etching and small tabs make the parts quick to prepare.

 

I have made two of the leaf spring units, they took about 90 minutes. They are made by threading the leaves onto a pin with the spring shackle holding them while soldering. I filed the head of the pins flat and square to represent a nut or bolt. One of the solebars is done and for the other I am waiting for some advice from the proprietor, they are made with 3 parts and for the life of me I cannot figure out where one of them goes... I just did without on the first solebar and may end up doing the same on this one.

 

 

The kit is full of little holes to fill with Grand Line NBWs and what is nice is that so far all the holes have lined up, even through the sides which are bent in a U shape from a single part. If I can figure out the best size and shape to use this should look a lot better than pushed out "rivets" which were not usually used to hold wagons together as far as I can see.

 

Regards,

David.

[Craigw]

David,

 

Dont use Grandtline NBW castings unless they specifically make a square nut. The NSWGR used square nuts on the outside with dome headed coach bolts pushed through from the inside. The nuts were a little over 1" across the flats. Talk to the nice man you brought the D wagon from as he might be able to help out with nuts from Scale Hardware which will give a far better result.

Are you fitting wooden brake shoes or cast iron as from the 1890s? If from the latter period don't forget the non- air marking on the side and Westinghouse pipes for through piping. Unless of course you care to go the whole WH route and fit outside clasp brakes as well as the lever brake.

 

Good to see someone modelling early NSWGR in 7mm scale. I made a bit of a start on it and my D wagon I scratchbuilt was used as a display model prior to the release of this set of etchings.

 

Finally, are you going to lash out on a 12 class?

 

Greetings from a lapsed NSWGR modeller now modelling GWR in 4mm scale (P4)

 

Craig Warton

[dajt]

Hi Craig,

 

I have also scratchbuilt a D wagon and a hearse wagon although neither of them are finished. See http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/19460-your-forgotten-projects/page__view__findpost__p__206902 for photos.

 

Thanks for the info about the size of the nuts, that is good to know. I'm a bit wary of the scale hardware stuff as it is so expensive! As for brakes, I'll just use what came in the kit. Their research seems pretty good and all I have to go on are the photos in the book released a few years ago about the initial redfern-granville line which seem to show big wooden brake blocks. I'm planning on modelling pretty early, say mid 1880s.

 

I'm not planning on a 12 class. I'm sure it will be a fantasic kit but more than I want to pay for an engine. My next project is a Z16 (I've started chassis and done a crank-axle for it) but I've had this D wagon kit hanging around for years and figured it couldn't be any harder than the MW K class so I should finally get it done. I have done all 4 spring assemblies now and they were basically the part I was most worried about so I hope it is plain sailing from here, at least until I tackle the handbrake.

 

I think I have one of your articles from AMRM - did you do one on early CW wagons? And why the change to GWR in 4mm? Isn't that doing things the hard way with all those small bits and chaired track?

 

Regards,

David.

[dajt]

Some progress has been made on the D wagon - it is nearly finished.

 

The brakes were very difficult to put together and I don't suggest you go for a kit with a working handbrake! The brake shoes don't sit properly (my fault) and I'll probably fix them somehow but the brake handle and pushrods look good (IMO) - much more delicate than the usual chunky casting.

 

The sprung W-irons that come with the kit seem to work well and were simple to put together.

 

Safety chains, coupling chains, metal strips around the top, keep the brakes away from the wheels, and that's about it before painting. Having just previewed the post I can add: lots of nuts/bolts/washers, finish soldering the pins in the brake gear, and clean off the great lump of solder at the top if the brake lever bracket...

 

Regards,

David.

 

 

 

[wagonman]

 

Safety chains, coupling chains, metal strips around the top, keep the brakes away from the wheels, and that's about it before painting. Having just previewed the post I can add: lots of nuts/bolts/washers, finish soldering the pins in the brake gear, and clean off the great lump of solder at the top if the brake lever bracket...

 

 

 

Great stuff! Re the nuts and bolts, for most applications on this wagon – where there is already a washer strip or corner plate – you'll be wanting nut/bolt mouldings rather than nut/bolt/washer. There's only a limited range of those available from Grandtline. For the longitudinal tiebars (either side of the coupling hook) you will need N/B/Ws and rather bigger ones at that. I hope the instructions say which bits go where...

 

Keep up the good work.

 

 

Richard

[dajt]

Great stuff! Re the nuts and bolts, for most applications on this wagon – where there is already a washer strip or corner plate – you'll be wanting nut/bolt mouldings rather than nut/bolt/washer. There's only a limited range of those available from Grandtline. For the longitudinal tiebars (either side of the coupling hook) you will need N/B/Ws and rather bigger ones at that. I hope the instructions say which bits go where...

 

Hi Richard,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Are the longitudinal tiebars the parts supposed to be represented by the holes in the oval plate right beside the coupling hook? I'm sure the square holes further out are for the safety chains.

 

Regards,

David.

[wagonman]

Hi Richard,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

Are the longitudinal tiebars the parts supposed to be represented by the holes in the oval plate right beside the coupling hook? I'm sure the square holes further out are for the safety chains.

 

Regards,

David.

 

Ooops! Lack of familiarity with the prototype... If the wagon had safety chains (something not seen on UK wagons) then they would have gone where those holes are located. The holes either side of, and close to, the coupling hook would not have needed washers. Can I presume these wagons didn't have through draw-gear? In fact the underside view shows they didn't even have full length longitudinal frame members so the tie-rods might have been extended to the middle cross members – or were these wagons prone to having their headstocks pulled off?

 

I'd better stick to British wagons.

 

 

Richard

[jwealleans]

Actually, some british vehicles were fitted with safety chains into the twentieth century and some did not have them removed until after the second War.

[dajt]

Hi all,

 

Some progress on the Z-16 4-4-0. I won't go into why the frames are butt-soldered together just now - I'll only say it has to do with not taking into account the need to narrow the distance between frames in FS 7mm. This, together with the huge flanges in FS, are bugging me more and more and I can feel S7 coming on for the next model.

 

The valances are from brass and the footplate and cab sides are tinplate. The tinplate seems to tarnish easily and I'm a bit worried about rust, but it is cheaper and much easier to form and solder than brass so I'd like to get used to using it.

 

I'm very happy with the way the splashers came out, I think they look quite smooth. I rolled their tops using about a 12mm piece of bronze (it was smooth and handly) like a rolling pin on the wooden workbench top until they were a pretty good fit and that made them nice and clean curves. The footplate itself is a bit rough but you can't really see most of it and it isn't bad enough that it can't be fixed later if necessary, I'd say.

 

I'm also pleased with the cab sides, but I've misplaced the drawing with the end elevation on it so can't do the spectacle plate yet!

 

Also shown is the front bogey in progress. Up to this point it follows the technique from John Ahern's book. It now requires lots of detailing, obviously. I has provision for side-spring control.

 

There are no rivets on it as I am going to try those resin waterslide ones the military modellers use, which go on after the undercoat apparently.

 

Happy new year all,

David.

 

 

[dajt]

OK, thanks for the hint.

[dajt]

Hi all,

 

Some progress has been made on the Z-16. The basic cab has been created, but I still need to tweak it and the footplate to get them to mate nicely. I think there will be a lot of solder used as filler for this.

 

Also shown in one of the photos is the motion bracket. I put a lip around the outside to represent the cast nature of this part, but gave up on making them for the cross-shaped holes inside... three bends was enough to tell me it wasn't worth it.

 

Looking in the back of the cab you'll notice the sides of the splashers have big cut-outs in them. This is due to the gauge narrowing of 7mm FS. I didn't take that into account the first time and had to make the splashers 1mm wider, which then means the firebox will have to be 2mm narrower. I don't think this will look too bad as it is a round topped firebox waisting down to go between the frames and much of that part will be hidden by the two sets of splashers.

 

This narrowing of the back-to-back distance also affected the front splashers where I seem to have accounted for it, but can't recall doing so. The first time I noticed was the other day when I was looking at a photo of the prototype and saw the splashers on the real thing were much more narrow than mine. I think this must be one of those lucky mistakes, as having them scale size wouldn't work, and moving them in to allow them to be scale size would leave too much footplate visible and probably look worse.

 

I am having a lot of trouble with the footplate. It is a U shape (open at the back) as I thought that would allow me to form each side over its valance. This worked, but the footplate is extremely fragile, easily twisted, won't sit straight, and I can't see how to strengthen it. I can't just lay bars down each side underneath because of the curves and the fact that there are three different heights on it.

 

Does anyone who has built a 4-4-0 with these complex types of footplate have any advice?

 

Regards,

David Taylor.

 

 

 

[relaxinghobby]

Perhaps when you attach the boiler it will make it more rigid?

[dajt]

Hi all,

 

A few photos of the boiler under construction. I've just followed the technique in Ahern's book on loco construction, using wire to hold the boiler roughly in shape while soldering the seam along the bottom.

 

I made a paper version first to check my dimensions and calculations, then did it again in tinplate. This ended up being much easier to form than brass. I just wrapped it around a 1" steel pipe and the tinplate bends and holds the curve pretty well.

 

The cut-outs in the firebox are to fit over the widened rear wheel splashers. On the model I'm hoping, from a distance, it is hard to see that the firebox ends at the front of the splasher, and doesn't just continue on behind it as it should.

 

The front splashers are proving more difficult to work around. They are far too wide and foul both the firebox and the boiler barrel. I don't think I can shave more than .5mm off each of them, and perhaps not even that. Still thinking about how to handle this part. I could just leave off the back of them and make them more narrow, but I think that would look terrible.

 

Regards,

David Taylor.

 

 

 

 

 

[dajt]

A start has been made on the smokebox and the firebox has been chopped up a bit to allow it to fit around the over-wide splashers, and the throatplate added as well.

 

The sloping smokebox wasn't as bad as I was expecting, although for some reason the smokebox itself has turned out under diameter when compared with the decorative plate on it's front, but it isn't too bad. Much hacking away of the front splashers was required to get the boiler to fit between them. It remains to be seen what the effect of this on the wheels is.

 

I've also filled the gaps between the cab sides and footplates with solder, and this needs more tidying up.

 

Regards,

David Taylor.

 

 

[dajt]

I was not happy with the Slaters plastic guides for the bearings, it seemed a bad idea to solder around them as either they or the glue would melt, but you want the wheels in ASAP, obviously.

 

I decided to replace them with pieces of brass with appropriate slots cut out. I've soldered these new ones inside the main frames and I'm no longer worried about melting them

 

I didn't bother to shape these "subframes" to the outer ones, I'll disguise the extra material at the bottem as the firebox/ashpan.

 

The springing system is primitive, just a piece of guitar string soldered near the bearing, pushing down on it. I saw this on one of Jazz's recent photos and thought I'd see how it went. Not saying Jazz's version is primitive... I'm sure it was carefully thought out!

 

There is some binding in the rods, but I'm hoping that is because I don't have 4 matched bushes on the crankpins, giving the wheels and rods a lot more movement relative to each other than they should have.

 

Regards,

David.

 

 

 

[dajt]

Back to the 4-4-0 after quite a break, spent building track for a layout for the kids.

 

I found the 4-4-0s frames bent a few months ago - yet again someone had been "playing" with it while I was away. So another set of frames were cut out of thicker material, about 0.9mm this time. The rear axle is now fixed and running in some bronze top hat bushes I turned up for it. An ABC gearbox and Maxon motor have arrived to drive the rear axle. One of the gears is going to protrude into the cab, but I'll disguise it somehow rather than try to return the box and get another one. The front axle uses Slaters hornblock bearings running directly in rectangular openings cut in the frame material. This had to be thinned a bit to fit in the slots in the bearings. A bit messy but it all seems okay. Happily this set of frames runs better than the last set anyway, so it was worth the effort.

 

Then I decided to tackle the front bogie. I've been working on this occasionally since the model started. The frames and tubular bearings went together easily and quickly early on, then I got stuck on how to attach it to the loco, springing, etc, plus putting off doing the compensation beams and spring brackets. This had to be got out of the way so after a few days of work it is pretty much done.

 

The rear axle in the bogie is free to move up and down a bit, although I may spring it to hold it down if required. The bogie has side control springing, and is also sprung vertically on the threaded rod which goes through the front frame spacer, with a nut above that to set the maximum ride height and to stop the bogie falling off.

 

Regards,

David.

 

 

 

[dajt]

I made the lower firebox and ashpan yesterday. I drew the firebox in CAD so I could mark on a couple of rows of rivets. I have no detailed view of the prototype but I decided a couple of rows around the bottom would provide a bit of visual interest where they can be seen through the frames. The ashpan is inset using some scrap brass.

 

An interesting discovery was that stretching the frames even a tiny bit caused a slight bind in the wheels. After filing the firebox back where it was pushing the frames so it could just drop through them, the wheels freed up again.

 

Today I've been experimenting with ways to make the leaf springs for the driving wheels. I ended up bolting a square piece of brass to the lathe faceplate and lightly cutting concentric circles in it turning the faceplate by hand. The circles are placed at 0.5mm intervals. when enough of them had been cut I then gently cut away the disk from inside the circles and then another cut around the outside of them to separate them from the square of brass. This gives a "donut" of concentric circles to cut the springs out of. The detail is the wrong way around - the gaps between the leaves stand proud, but it still looks fine and it's hidden away behind the wheels near rail level, so will not be seen. Now I'm cutting segments from the ring for each spring.

 

I'll solder these to a thicker piece of brass to give a more scale thickness before finally filing them to shape.

 

Regards,

David.

[dajt]

I have made progress on the springs and equalisation beams. They are not quite finished but they're close. They clip onto the frames and can be secured by some 12BA nuts if required, but I think they'll be okay without. They also act as keeper plates for the front axleboxes.

 

Still to do: finish spring detail, brakes, guard irons, motion.

 

I had to discard my attempt at a crank axle as it was not straight. I'm going to use some eccentrics soldered onto a sleeve secured with a grub screw on the front axle instead. This won't look anywhere near as good but will be a great deal easier!

 

Regards,

David.

 

 

 

 

[dajt]

Hi,

 

I have made some progress on the brakes and the guard irons.

 

The brakes clip on, sitting over small stubs of tube soldered to the frame. They still need brake shoes, which will be plastic. They also need some sort of detail behind the rear shoes going back to the handbrake, but I can't figure out what it should be from my drawing. It should all look okay when it is under the footplate and painted black and dirty and rusty.

 

I've also added the guard irons to the front. These had to be made narrower than scale due to the over-sized cut-outs to allow the bogie wheels to clear the frames. They still need some form of bolt put in them.

 

Regards,

David.

 

 

[BernardTPM]

This is a beautiful piece of work. Thanks for sharing its progress.

[dajt]

Hi Bernard,

 

Very kind, thanks

 

I'm itching to get some pickups on it so I can see it run up and down a piece of track without having the power clipped to the motor!

 

Also starting to think about the cylinders (again). I made some small turnings for where the piston rods go in ages ago but I'm not terribly happy with them, and I also need a way to firmly mount the slidebars so it all needs redoing.

 

Regards,

David.

[dajt]

The loco has had its first moves under its own power

 

From such a free running underframe, powerful motor and good gearbox I am very disappointed in the slow performance, with a couple of spots where it just stops. The rods are not binding, I think it is the wheels not being vertical causing more and less pressure on the pickups as they go around. To compensate for the variation in how far the back of the flange is from the frames the pickups have to be able to reach quite a long way out which means they exert a lot of pressure when the wheel is at its closest approach, or risk the pickup losing contact at the other extreme.

 

At more than crawling speed there seems to be enough intertia to get it over the hump but going very slowly it stops.

 

I'll mount the wheels in the lathe at some point and see if the problem is with (a) the wheels and axles or (b ) the bearings and if (a), whether I can skim them to try and fix it up.

 

At any rate it does run which is a good start! The pickups are little pieces of phosphor bronze strip which bear against the backs of the flanges.

 

Regards,

David.

 

 

[DLT]

Actually, some british vehicles were fitted with safety chains into the twentieth century and some did not have them removed until after the second War.

Quite so, safety chains were common on UK narrow gauge wagons.

Cheers,

Dave.

[DLT]

The loco has had its first moves under its own power From such a free running underframe, powerful motor and good gearbox I am very disappointed in the slow performance, with a couple of spots where it just stops. The rods are not binding, I think it is the wheels not being vertical causing more and less pressure on the pickups as they go around. To compensate for the variation in how far the back of the flange is from the frames the pickups have to be able to reach quite a long way out which means they exert a lot of pressure when the wheel is at its closest approach, or risk the pickup losing contact at the other extreme. At more than crawling speed there seems to be enough intertia to get it over the hump but going very slowly it stops. I'll mount the wheels in the lathe at some point and see if the problem is with (a) the wheels and axles or (b ) the bearings and if (a), whether I can skim them to try and fix it up. At any rate it does run which is a good start! The pickups are little pieces of phosphor bronze strip which bear against the backs of the flanges. Regards, David.

Hi David,

I've used this "backscratcher" method of pickup a fair bit (in 4mm scale) and have found it very reliable.

From the photo it looks as though the pickups are very short; is there any way you can lengthen them, so that they bear further away from the attachment point?

The longer they are the further they can flex, so as not to lose contact with the wheel, and without exerting so much pressure that they act as brakes.

Hope this helps,

Cheers, Dave.T