Kadee Couplers

[RANGERS]

I’m about to trial some Kadees fitted to mostly Bachmann 9 and 10 foot wheelbase stock, some Oxford, Hornby and kitbuilt also. I’m intending to buy a selection to try but does anyone have any advice on which work best?

[ISW]

1 hour ago, RANGERS said:

I’m about to trial some Kadees fitted to mostly Bachmann 9 and 10 foot wheelbase stock, some Oxford, Hornby and kitbuilt also. I’m intending to buy a selection to try but does anyone have any advice on which work best?

Given the wide variety of planned applications, you need a Kadee 'system' that is adaptable.

 

I'd suggest Kadee #5 with associated draft box #232. That's probably the cheaper option, given that you can get 10 & 20-packs. The only issue / problem is that you can end up with the draft box 'exposed' (sticking out) from the bufferbeam to correctly align the coupling with the face of the buffers.

 

To alleviate the problem above, you could use Kadee #156 with associated draft box #242. The coupler is 'long', and so you'll find the draft box set back behind the bufferbeam out-of-the-way.

 

In both cases, you can adjust the height of the coupler by inserting 'shims' between the draft box and the body of the wagon (but you can only adjust 'downwards', obviously). To 'raise' a coupling, you'd have to cut away some of the wagon underframe.

 

I always screw my Kadee draft boxes to the wagon, as this is a reversible process (just in case). I use self-tapping "No.0 Phillips Pan-Head Self-Tappers x 9.5mm lg" from Model Fixings.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Ian

[Dominion]

Lots of the wagons you mention will have Nem pockets.
I use number 18s in those instead of fitting kadee draft boxes.

If you have tight radii you may need 19s.

 

If you are doing Bachmann wagons with the cranked tension locks in Nem pockets then the Nem pocket is set too high from the factory.
You can bring the coupler head back down to an acceptable height by turning the small Nem pocket component on the wagon upside down. 

Good luck.

Tom

[DutyDruid]

25 minutes ago, Dominion said:

Lots of the wagons you mention will have Nem pockets.
I use number 18s in those instead of fitting kadee draft boxes.

Agree with Dominion's approach rather than using #5s and draft boxes.

 

The only caution is that Bachmann had a nasty habit of using "cranked" tension lock couplings on some of their wagons.  These don't lend themselves to easy plug & play conversion, it is possible and if you look back through this topic you will see how I did it for my Bachmann Standard 4 Tank but I have a nasty feeling the parts I used are no longer available.

[Dunsignalling]

On 13/10/2023 at 11:16, DutyDruid said:

Agree with Dominion's approach rather than using #5s and draft boxes.

 

The only caution is that Bachmann had a nasty habit of using "cranked" tension lock couplings on some of their wagons.  These don't lend themselves to easy plug & play conversion, it is possible and if you look back through this topic you will see how I did it for my Bachmann Standard 4 Tank but I have a nasty feeling the parts I used are no longer available.

The (otherwise lovely) new LSWR vans from EFE Rail also have cranked tension locks, and the pocket is way too high to achieve a true NEM alignment. 

 

Fortunately, while the work required to fit a 'boxed' Kadee is fairly extensive, it's pretty straightforward.

 

Incidentally, I almost never use No.5 Kadees on stock that has buffers, getting the knuckle far enough forward means leaving the draft-box sticking out untidily beyond the buffer beam.

 

A much neater job can be obtained using the longer #146 Kadee, which allows the box to be tucked away under the wagon.  

 

John

 

Photo of the finished wagon attached.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Dominion said:

You can bring the coupler head back down to an acceptable height by turning the small Nem pocket component on the wagon upside down. 

That doesn't bring to anywhere near the right height for reliable coupling

 

On those wagons with the high mount and cranked coupling I cut them off flat and use a #146 affixed to the underside of the wagon.

Another way is to fabricate a stepped Kadee coupling, although the plastic used for the NEM range doesn't take many adhesives well

 

Edit: the #14X "Whisker" range has three heights and three lengths, so most locations can be coped with.

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by melmerby

[Butler Henderson]

Most wagon NEM mounts can be eased downwards and packed above as an alternatiive.

 

A offset Kadee can be made by chopping off the clipping in prongs and  packing the shank to correct offset to a shank with proongs off a tension lock, all glued and pinned/small bolted together.

[Dunsignalling]

12 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Most wagon NEM mounts can be eased downwards and packed above as an alternatiive.

 

A offset Kadee can be made by chopping off the clipping in prongs and  packing the shank to correct offset to a shank with proongs off a tension lock, all glued and pinned/small bolted together.

 

A darned sight easier, and probably quicker, to chop off the misaligned mount (Xuron track cutters make a decent job of it that doesn't leave much to tidy up) and fit a "proper" Kadee, though. 

 

Admittedly, I've had a fair bit of practice, but I reckon I can comfortably do three of most Bachmann wagons in an hour, though there are a couple of types that are a bit more tricky.

 

John

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

A darned sight easier, and probably quicker, to chop off the misaligned mount

IMHO

Having done a few vehicles (probably 200+) chopping off the misaligned mount and using a complete #14X series is definitely the best idea

I've tried all the other various methods suggested and a complete proper Kadee on a flat floor is definitely the most satisfactory.

 

Unfortunately some installations can't use this method e.g. pony trucks on some locos and where a bodge is needed.

[RANGERS]

Thanks for all the comments and advice, there’s enough there to give some direction and compile an initial shopping list for some trials.

 

Naively I’d assumed that with NEM pockets, this was going to be a straightforward exercise 😂.

 

The majority of the stock is Bachmann 9 or 10 foot stock - BR mins, vans etc - so I’m hoping that there’s some commonality of a solution for most, and accepting that locos and the oddball stock will need a more bespoke approach, I’ll see how all this pans out once I have some coupling samples to play with.

 

Thanks again for all your advice.

[melmerby]

Just now, RANGERS said:

Naively I’d assumed that with NEM pockets, this was going to be a straightforward exercise 😂.

Sadly not

The NEM pocket is a standard which sets out the postion it should be but many manufacturers play fast and loose with that position, not just the height but also the fore aft locations, resulting in at least 6, maybe more types of "NEM" tension locks to get the loop in the right position on the vehicle.

Converting the deviants to Kadees can be frustrating.

[Geep7]

The Bachmann wagon I find the most frustrating is the TTA tank.... You may as well (as I do) just throw away the NEM pocket, and replace with a kadee box + coupler of your choice. Personally, rather than the #5, I use the whisker couplers, as I find these seem to be more positive in action.

[melmerby]

22 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

Personally, rather than the #5, I use the whisker couplers, as I find these seem to be more positive in action.

Agree

The phosphor bronze spring in the gear box of a #5 doesn't seem to be as positive as the whiskers

I've just replaced a #5 & spring with a #14x series on a US loco and it is much more inclined to self centre (or should that be center?🙂)

[Jeff Smith]

The #242 gear box is included with packs of Whisker couplings but there is a smaller gear box available #252.  Material is styrene so can be fixed in place on kit wagons with MEK or similar.

 

#252s on a scratch built 0-16.5 wagon.  About the same size as an 00 wagon.

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Jeff Smith

[Geep7]

45 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Agree

The phosphor bronze spring in the gear box of a #5 doesn't seem to be as positive as the whiskers

I've just replaced a #5 & spring with a #14x series on a US loco and it is much more inclined to self centre (or should that be center?🙂)

I did the same on all my US stock, standardising on the #148. As I was operating an exhibition layout, they had to work every time.

[Butler Henderson]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

A darned sight easier, and probably quicker, to chop off the misaligned mount (Xuron track cutters make a decent job of it that doesn't leave much to tidy up) and fit a "proper" Kadee, though.

 

Not on some models  - the Std 4 tank for example.

[Dunsignalling]

Just now, Butler Henderson said:

Not on some models  - the Std 4 tank for example.

The rear coupling on those is just an abomination. Mine just has an ancient and extremely bodged #16 superglued into the pocket. I keep meaning to get rid of the entire set-up and do something sensible with it!

 

The discussion was mainly centred on wagons, though.

 

John

[Jeff Smith]

I’ve mentioned this before but worth repeating.  Kadees couple very well and if the track is level, stay coupled.  Uncoupling can be questionable; if using under track or between rail permanent magnets, always install on straight track so that both vehicles you want to uncouple are exactly in line - back up slightly and the trip pins should then separate and uncouple.  You can then back up and loose shunt without them recoupling.  Even with this set up sometimes both trip pins go the same way!  A disadvantage I found with permanent magnets was attraction to steel wheels, axles and sometimes wagon ballast weights.  Hornby  wagon wheels are non-magnetic but mounted on steel axles!  I had to mount them on brass axles.

 

My latest O-16.5 layout uses Kadees with the ugly trip pins cut off giving a more prototypical look for centre-buffing couplings in narrow gauge vehicles.  So now I have to uncouple by hand using the Kadee twiddle stick.  Sometimes this can be done first try and sometimes it takes many attempts.

 

In some respects Kadees are no better than TLCs, both of which are centre-buffing couplings used inappropriately with side buffers but at least with Kadees you can lift a wagon straight up out of a rake!

[Butler Henderson]

The old style Bachmann wheel with the plastic centre are useful on wagons and individual coaches

[melmerby]

1 hour ago, Jeff Smith said:

Even with this set up sometimes both trip pins go the same way!

Never ever had that happen.

I'm using the code 83 between rail magnets on code 75 track

Edited October 13, 2023 by melmerby

[Jeff Smith]

15 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Never ever had that happen.

I'm using the code 83 between rail magnets on code 75 track

They would be closer to the trip pins than the undertrack ones I had so maybe stronger and more precise.  Also all the Bachmann On30 stock was bogie and I installed some magnets too close to curves.......