Hornby RailMaster

[Ron Ron Ron]

As predicted by some last year and the year before, Hornby have finally announced a PC software suite to go with their Digital control system.

It's too early to say exactly what the full capabilities and limitations of this package are, but Hornby have provided a little taster in their 2011 range announcement.

 

 

See here........ RailMaster (includes a promo video).

 

 

Right, forgive me for this little missive, or if you prefer, rant; ......before it's condemned outright, I think that this new software suite should be viewed in a different way to other packages already "out there".

I apologise in advance if you think I'm talking a load of bo***ks...I probably am !

I'm also sorry if I'm not articulating my point particularly well (the grammar is totally rubbish too!)

 

There's a lot of talk, sometimes a little naïve or misguided IMHO, about attracting young people into the "hobby". Personally I've long believed that making the hobby sufficiently interesting to todays and tomorrows younger generation will require a far more attractive and relevant offering than what went before.

The same old same old will probably not do anymore.

 

It seems that more than ever, children's toys are largely a 5 minute wonder. In todays instant and disposable consumer world, the choice and availability of toys (or other activities or gadgets) is fairly bewildering and children's interests and desires change more quickly than ever. No doubt helped by parents who are more than willing to provide them with all the latest favourites and crazes.

Rather than lasting for years as in the past, more than ever toys are almost as disposable as cardboard coffee cups.

Train-sets are no different; many lasting no longer than a year or so before being consigned to the Car Boot sale, charity shop or the skip (and yes I've seen the remnants of a few almost new examples at the local dump).

 

I've no doubt that compared with other toys, gadgets, computer games etc, for most children watching a toy train go round and round will become rather boring after a very short time. To an extent this has always been true, but the world has moved on and with it the world of play.

ISTR reading somewhere that it's thought most train-sets are bought for children under the age of 5 years old and that interest has usually gone by the age of 7 or 8, probably never to return.

The impression I get is that the idea of playing with "toys" beyond the age of 9 or 10 now seems to be considered "odd" in many quarters.

 

 

If one believes that encouraging children into a lasting association with their trainset will lead to a certain number of them continuing later into railway modelling, then the odds of that happening may be getting weaker as time marches on.

That raises a question: is the old fashioned notion that having a traditional train set leads to a future railway modeller, for all intents and purposes redundant?

 

 

So what can be done to capture and hold the attention of, not 5 to 8 year olds, but older children up into their teenage years and into young adulthood?

More importantly IMHO, what will attract young adults of all ages to the hobby, even if they are new to such an interest?

The answer may seem trite or simplistic, but nethertheless probably right IMHO. - Make the product more attractive, more interesting, more relevant to todays youngsters. In short "more Sexy".

Make the product something you grow into and not something you grow out of !

 

Hornby, as a purveyor of toy trains, has a vested interest in retaining or later re-gaining its young clientele. Even better if it can keep them as more profitable adult consumers in later years.

As a toy maker, with just under a third of it's sales in the children's train set sector, they will need to keep their products fresh and attractive or those sales will diminish over time.

I've no doubt they are fully "switched on" in this regard.

 

 

Anyway enough babbling on. Rambling mode off, I'll make my point.

 

DCC !

or better still, DCC with knobs on.

 

From the day I first read about Hornby launching of its DCC systems, I thought it inevitable that some form of matching computer software package would follow, but not for the usual reasons.

 

We're used to the idea that such software packages and the use of PC's are at the higher more advanced end of the hobby (control wise).

Maybe we'll now have to get used to the notion of such packages (in appropriate form) being a part of the most basic end of the model train hobby; namely playing with toy train sets.

 

I don't doubt that RailMaster is probably much more capable and useful than being simply aimed at youngsters, given that Hornby are likely to produce a product aimed with wide appeal; but I question whether we'll need to compare or judge it in the same light as say, JMRI or RR&co ?

 

On the other hand, I may have totally misjudged what this product is all about?

 

Food for thought....(or just c**p) ??? Don't be shy !

 

.

[neal]

Hi Ron,

 

Interesting thread, I am a loyal Elite user, and use one of the existing free software packages to run the controller from a low end laptop (>10yrs old!). I use a wireless mouse, which means I can 'roam' as long as I can squint to see the monitor. I control points but haven't dabbled in automation yet. I am very happy with this set up.

 

In truth, it is far easier to use the p.c. than the dials and Elite keypad (this normally stays shut away in a drawer!). Indeed this makes the whole DCC experience much simpler, even ignoring the possibilities of automation etc.

 

 

Whether the Hornby software (or any other) makes DCC or the wider hobby more 'sexy', I'm not sure. If marketed well, it could certainly make DCC more accessible and attractive to young and old who may still see it as a 'dark art'.

 

I worry that this particular package offers automation based upon timed actuations. Whilst the video shows pinpoint accuracy with an N2 uncoupling, and 08 picking up wagons, in reality this is subject to the vagueries of the loco and track (even with the benefits of BEMF). I fear that repetition of operations will vary depending on factors as simple as operating temperature (which can affect motor rpms and rolling resistances). If the software fails in this regard, it may be seen as rather expensive at £60!

 

As mentioned in the 2011 thread, I reckon Hornby would be better of packaging this 'free' with the controller. Indeed, a small premium to the RRP could be accommodated for the controller which is still cheaper than any other comparable unit.

 

However. what I am concerned over is that Hornby may choose to make future releases of the Elite only compatible with the RailMaster software. Whilst this might compromise their NMRA accreditation, it might boost sales of what in truth is a pretty basic software package.

 

If they were really cunning, Hornby might insert a spoiler in future Firmware updates to this effect, although if this were the case, I wouldn't upload them!

 

Funnily enough, I had discussed the possibility of a Hornby software package by e-mail with DCC Ken at Margate. Obviously plans were much further advanced than he let on!

 

 

Would be interested to hear from other Elite owners using existing computer software.

 

 

N

[7013]

I like the Elite and enjoy using it, If the Railmaster system makes it easier to use the Elite then that is good, I cannot see Hornby making it so that the Elite can only be used with Railmaster it would be a backward step. I would like it if the Railmaster could be used with other systems. ( I swapped my Elite for Lenz recently). It really does not matter if the system is fairly basic I am sure Hornby will develop the system in future with downloads. What worries me is that it will only be usable with Elite which will mean if one wishes to use Railmaster one would be tied into the Hornby system.

I have an exhibition layout that I use Lenz for, I may well invest in another Elite with Railmaster for my home layout if it proves to be good.

[Savoyard]

As Hornby use the Lenz X-Bus protocol it will be interesting to see if Railmaster works with Lenz via either of the Lenz computer interfaces.

 

Peter

[Ozexpatriate]

From the day I first read about Hornby launching of its DCC systems, I thought it inevitable that some form of matching computer software package would follow, but not for the usual reasons.

 

I don't doubt that RailMaster is probably much more capable and useful than being simply aimed at youngsters, given that Hornby are likely to produce a product aimed with wide appeal; but I question whether we'll need to compare or judge it in the same light as say, JMRI or RR&co ?

 

On the other hand, I may have totally misjudged what this product is all about?

No doubt their intent is an 'easy-to-use' computer control system for model railways. Children (and progressing children into future adult modellers) are an important target market for the RailMaster product.

 

I have seen posts on the Hornby forum looking for computer control that appear to be from youngsters. This product will suit their interest very well.

 

As it stands, RailMaster is not a comprehensive computer control system. It looks like a very effective throttle and point control system - with 'follow-the-leader' scripting. Many (most?) children have access to computers and tying model railways to computers can't help but be a good thing for business.

[traction]

As Hornby use the Lenz X-Bus protocol it will be interesting to see if Railmaster works with Lenz via either of the Lenz computer interfaces.

 

Peter

 

Reading the blurb the Elite needs to be connected via the USB port to the PC to use the software, so not using the X-Bus at all for operation.

 

Looks like it will probably be tied to the Elite controller, have any prices been announced yet for this software?

Be interesting to see how much it will cost.

 

The video looks good, would be nice to have a touch screen that big!!!

[Nigelcliffe]

Reading the blurb the Elite needs to be connected via the USB port to the PC to use the software, so not using the X-Bus at all for operation.

 

 

The protocol used by other software vendors over the Elite USB interface is Xpressnet, the same as Lenz uses.

But Hornby have a few undocumented hitches in their implementation of the protocol which causes grief to JMRI (and I guess other system vendors as well).

 

So, there is some hope that Railmaster might work on a Lenz system.

 

 

Looks like it will probably be tied to the Elite controller, have any prices been announced yet for this software?

Be interesting to see how much it will cost.

 

£60.

 

I suggest anyone who is serious about model railways would be better off with JMRI or RocRail (both free), ZugDCC ($30), GPP's SSI (about £60), and if wanting serious automation, probably spending more on RR&Co.

 

 

- Nigel

[Gdaysydney]

Many (most?) children have access to computers and tying model railways to computers can't help but be a good thing for business.

 

Couldn't agree more - not only will it be good for Hornby their move to link trains with computers will at best increase the appeal of the hobby to the younger generation and at worst lift the street cred of those whole currently get stick from their peers for are "playing with trains" as they will be perceived as having moved a step nearer to "mainstream" if there hobby now includes interfacing with a computer.

[Ron Ron Ron]

No doubt their intent is an 'easy-to-use' computer control system for model railways. Children (and progressing children into future adult modellers) are an important target market for the RailMaster product.

 

I have seen posts on the Hornby forum looking for computer control that appear to be from youngsters. This product will suit their interest very well.

 

 

........Many (most?) children have access to computers and tying model railways to computers can't help but be a good thing for business.

In my muddled way (I did pen the OP in a bit of a rush) I think that's what I was getting at with my original point.

 

 

I suggest anyone who is serious about model railways would be better off with JMRI or RocRail (both free), ZugDCC ($30), GPP's SSI (about £60), and if wanting serious automation, probably spending more on RR&Co.

Again, this was part of my original point.

Those software products are seen at the perceived "top end". It may be a much simpler product, but RailMaster brings elements of PC use to a wider spectrum of users; not just youngsters either.

 

 

Couldn't agree more - not only will it be good for Hornby their move to link trains with computers will at best increase the appeal of the hobby to the younger generation.......

I personally think it will be a bigger draw than enlarging the Railroad range with even more rehashed old Hornby and ex-Lima toys, many of which have no relevance to those younger buyers.

[MarcoGWR]

I have been anticipating an improved Elite (with a larger, colour screen), or a simplified one for computer use only.

I would also like to see Linux-based systems using wireless networked notepads as walkabout controllers.

.. and "wireless" DCC point motors which draw their current from the track (as well as receiving their instructions).

Regards, Mark

[Ozexpatriate]

No doubt their intent is an 'easy-to-use' computer control system for model railways. Children (and progressing children into future adult modellers) are an important target market for the RailMaster product.

In my muddled way (I did pen the OP in a bit of a rush) I think that's what I was getting at with my original point.

I think I was agreeing with you.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I think I understand now.

............I think?

[locoworks]

it may if simples give Hornby a bit of an edge over other entry level systems, but we will have to wait and see if it is upto ( down really ) the usual Hornby first release standards?? they must get their DCC kit tested by NO ONE before they release it.

[7013]

I am sure some enterprizing shop/DCC supplier will do the Lenz test when they get it in stock and we should know definitively if it will work. I applaud Hornby for this effort because not everyone wants computer control to be complicated, therefore even if it is basic it may attract people like me who is very happy with my Lenz set up, BUT if the Railamster worked with Lenz it would be an simple adjuct that would give a control option.

[Ron Ron Ron]

......I applaud Hornby for this effort because not everyone wants computer control to be complicated.....

I agree with that.

As with S4 & P4, the likes of JMRI and RR&co will only appeal to a small portion of the market. You could even say that JMRI is really just for "Geeks".

 

Easier to use and simpler products like RailMaster will make this aspect of the hobby more accessible to a wider audience and may provide an advance in DCC and general model railway operation.

At the top end, more sophisticated DCC systems like the ECoS and Commander are bringing similar advances, but to a more limited audience due to cost.

 

When they first launched their Elite and Select digital systems, Hornby made a great deal about DCC doing for their model railway sales, what digital did for Scalextric. After a shaky start, they may be able to get back on course to follow this ambition?

Certainly in the wider, non-modeller market (train-sets etc), "digital" is a powerful sales tool and may be the means to broaden appeal and increase sales in a previously flat market.

 

From first impressions (admittedly based on very scant information so far) RailMaster has the potential to transform the "also ran" Elite into a more attractive proposition.

Assuming the software works properly and the functionality is not too limited, all Hornby need now is a decent wireless throttle to complete the set up.

How long before an App appears for the iPhone & iPod Touch?

 

37 plus pages and counting in the /Products/Hornby/Hornby announcements 2011 thread and so far nobody has mentioned that commercially speaking, RailMaster could potentially be the most important new product in the range.

 

 

.

[Kenton]

That raises a question: is the old fashioned notion that having a traditional train set leads to a future railway modeller, for all intents and purposes redundant?

I have never supported the belief that a lasting interest in model railways has anything to do with a traditional train set in childhood.

 

My first trainset was a clockwork tin train - it was broken within days, probably like most of my toys of that age. Probably the toy that influenced me most was Meccano. That gave me an interest in building things, later in pulling things apart and rebuilding. Combine that with an interest in history and railways and the ingredients are perfect for the recipe.

 

As to the gadgets used in model railways - I see DCC as just a string of gadgets, gimmicks, gizmos - this is just another step. The state of DCC is akin to the Betamax/VCR - everyone claims to follow a set of standards that in reality are still evolving. Every manufacturer is still trying to capture the low end market, most of it is designed as disposable or with planned redundancy.

[7013]

I have to disagree with you Kenton, DCC is another form of control just as DC is, you could argue that Block sections and Isolating sections are gimmicks. Most if not all manufacturers adhere mainly to NMRA, those that do/will not are not worth getting and will inevitably go under (like Betamax). DCC is still evolving, but within the NMRA framework, and it will continue to develop because the digital world is inextricably linked. Rather than dismiss these developments as gimmicks and gizmos (some I concede may be) I would rather view them as options which can be used/integrated if desired just as block control, isolating sections etc. can be used or not depending on your need.

DCC will contiue to expand because of its potential for links with other digital systems (i phones/pods/pads, computers, cameras/tv etc.).

As to planned redundancy? the earliest Lenz equipment is still usable with todays Lenz equipment, also Railmaster will enhance the Elite rather than make any of it redundant, again if you are an Elite user you can choose not to use Railmaster.

[Kenton]

7013, as my Betamax, sorry Dynamis Wireless System is about as interconnected and forward compatible - I guess it will go much the same way.

 

To someone who just wants a simple life, detests sound, flashing lights, etc most "advances" so far are seen as gimmicks and gizmos. But then my mobile phone is a brick.

[melmerby]

The state of DCC is akin to the Betamax/VCR - everyone claims to follow a set of standards that in reality are still evolving.

 

Exactly what standards was the Betamax (& for that matter the VHS and the V2000) claimed to be following? None of them were compatible with what went before.

There were/are no standards defined for domestic video recording. Market forces and advertising determine what sells. Hence the result that the worst, technically, of the three systems won.

 

I don't get the analogy with DCC standards. At least anything made to NMRA standards should work with anything else, which wasn't the case with VCRs.

 

 

Keith

[S.A.C Martin]

I think Railmaster - and most DCC systems - have missed the point entirely.

 

Not picking on Hornby here, but when you have an app for just about everything on an iPhone, or portable games consoles which double up as media players and controllers for other systems (3DS, DS, PSP), and a generation which has grown up with the rapid acceleration of electronic equipment and its increasingly affordable prices, Model Train manufacturers look extremely dated - 20th century dated - by comparison.

 

Especially with regards trying to get kids into the hobby. Computer control from a PC is an absolute must (and with the increasing amount of Apple Macs out there, that market too is lucrative), for the PC savvy "internet" generation. Fact is, model trains still rely on 20th century train set principles for the most part - i.e you have a single person driving a train, or one or two more, and to that extent Hornby/Bachmann/etc have all missed the point.

 

It's not a question of being "sexy" (though I agree the aesthetic appeal has a great amount to do with the desirability of a product). It's the amount of customization and replay value that a computer control system can provide.

 

Overall Railmaster looks interesting to me, but I feel it's some way short of matching any of the (extremely well rendered now) Rail Sims about which you can "play with the trains" for prices well below those of actual physical models.

 

Somehow, model trains have to evolve for the 21st century in the way they work for a generation of potential young modelers who have skills beyond that of the older generations in many cases in terms of computer software.

 

The interface Hornby looks like it is using looks very basic to me - this is the age of the high definition computer game, after all. I'm not asking Hornby to be a video games manufacturer, and yet I feel they could take a leaf out of many developers books when producing software for their DCC systems. And I'll repeat myself - not just Hornby at fault here, if the aim is to get youngsters into the hobby.

[Edwin_m]

7013, as my Betamax, sorry Dynamis Wireless System is about as interconnected and forward compatible - I guess it will go much the same way.

 

The difference is that the decoder-fitted locos that worked with the Dynamis will also work with whatever DCC system replaces it, provided they all follow the NMRA standards. So a decoder-fitted loco is more like the CD than a Betamax tape - an individual CD player may have to be replaced, but the CDs will still play in another player. Newer devices such as DVD players or laptops will play CDs too.

 

(I'm not intending this post to open to a discussion about the possible demise of the CD - they've been going for several decades and you can still get the players, and that's good enough for me!)

[Ozexpatriate]

I think Railmaster - and most DCC systems - have missed the point entirely.

 

Overall Railmaster looks interesting to me, but I feel it's some way short of matching any of the (extremely well rendered now) Rail Sims about which you can "play with the trains" for prices well below those of actual physical models.

 

The interface Hornby looks like it is using looks very basic to me - this is the age of the high definition computer game, after all. I'm not asking Hornby to be a video games manufacturer, and yet I feel they could take a leaf out of many developers books when producing software for their DCC systems.

Railmaster is a PC-hosted DCC throttle and point controller with the ability to store sequences.

 

What point did they miss?

 

Don't underestimate the costs of developing custom software. When developing a contemporary electronics system (like a mobile phone) it is normal to have software engineers outnumber hardware engineers by at least a factor of ten. This ratio is increasing.

[S.A.C Martin]

Railmaster is a PC-hosted DCC throttle and point controller with the ability to store sequences.

 

What point did they miss?

 

Put simply, connectivity to other devices, and the gaming aspect which to some extent sells most forms of electronic hardware now.

[Ozexpatriate]

Railmaster is a PC-hosted DCC throttle and point controller with the ability to store sequences.

 

What point did they miss?

 

Put simply, connectivity to other devices, and the gaming aspect which to some extent sells most forms of electronic hardware now.

What other devices?

 

Do you mean DCC controllers other than the Elite, or hosting the throttle app on an iPhone, iPad or Android phone?

[S.A.C Martin]

What other devices?

 

Do you mean DCC controllers other than the Elite, or hosting the throttle app on an iPhone, iPad or Android phone?

 

I believe I did mention the iPhone, yes. I do think a form of connectivity to other handheld devices to be a definite draw for the young generation. It's all about the "App". Not to mention the possible functionality with other mobile phone types and similar.

 

That's not the end of the story, mind. Does the software have plugged in, a range of tutorials, or "games" (e.g. Loco 1 has to take a train from that section to that section - points for time taken, etc)?

 

The hobby needs to evolve in step with the rest of the world to survive.