ianwales Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hi All The GWR built an collett type tender which ran on an 8 wheel as opposed to 6 wheel chassis, not the inside frame one which was coupled to the Great Bear, Can anyone list me which GW and BR(WR) locos ran coupled to this tender and when, I seem to remember this info was in the RCTS books, but, I don't have them any longer. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hi Ian This from RCTS and Russell: Tender No. 2586 from 1931 (8 wheels) was withdrawn in Nov 1963 with Hall class 5904. It had also been on 5086 5068, around nationalisation as I have photos of it in early BR -lettered "British Railways" in GWR typeface also behind 5001 in "Great {crest} Western" livery. Possibly others, but that is the best I can do. Edit: according to O.S.Nock "it ran behind a number of Halls, Stars & Castles" Edit again to correct typo with Castle 5068 Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2011 8 wheel tender No. 2586 was built as an experiment in 1931 Over the years it ran with a number of locos and Brian Haresnape (although probably from Alec Swain's research) listed the following locos (in the order in which they had the tender) - 5919, 5001, 5032, 5071, 5049, 5017, 6951, 5068, 4043, 4093, 4918, and 5957 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold barryowen Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2011 Russell J H, Pictorial Record of Great Western Engines OPC 1978, Vol 2, p.234 diag 606 is a drawing of the frames while fig 609 is a foto of it coupled to 5068. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2011 8 wheel tender No. 2586 was built as an experiment in 1931 Over the years it ran with a number of locos and Brian Haresnape (although probably from Alec Swain's research) listed the following locos (in the order in which they had the tender) - 5919, 5001, 5032, 5071, 5049, 5017, 6951, 5068, 4043, 4093, 4918, and 5957 Doesn't mention 5904 which RCTS says was it's last allocation. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 15, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 15, 2011 Following on from the OP. How often did tenders get changed around? According to Stationmasters post the 8 wheeler had 8 locos from new in August 1931 up to Castle 5068 (photographed in 1948). That's a total of 8 locos in 17 or possibly less years. That seems overly frequent. Any ideas anybody? Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmay2002 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Following on from the OP. How often did tenders get changed around? According to Stationmasters post the 8 wheeler had 8 locos from new in August 1931 up to Castle 5068 (photographed in 1948). That's a total of 8 locos in 17 or possibly less years. That seems overly frequent. Any ideas anybody? Keith Every time a loco went into the works for overhaul it would be separated from its tender. For passenger locos this could be at 1-3 years frequency depending on mileage. The GWR and LMS owned less tenders than locos and a loco coming out of the works was paired with the next suitable tender available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2011 Following on from the OP. How often did tenders get changed around? According to Stationmasters post the 8 wheeler had 8 locos from new in August 1931 up to Castle 5068 (photographed in 1948). That's a total of 8 locos in 17 or possibly less years. That seems overly frequent. Any ideas anybody? Keith As already noted it would have come out of works behnd a different loco - on the GW/WR (and no doubt similarly elsewhere) tenders were pooled and when a loco went into works the tender went into pool, duly receiving whatever attention it needed (as I've written recently on another thread). Because tenders could be dealt with more quickly than many classes of repair for locos they would usually be likely to come out with a different loco from a shopping at Swindon although at the smaller works it was more likely that the loco would get back the same tender, The intervals work out about right - the tender was behind 5032 when it was outshopped in 1938 and overall it averages a change at somewhere between every 2 & 3 years - which fits the major shopping intervals for 'large' locos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted January 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2011 Thanks for that. It does work out at about one loco every two years, I didn't realise they were shopped quite so often. Cheers Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Theres a cracking photo on rail photo prints of 5904 in 1963 at shrewsbury with the 8 wheeled tender. The last loco to work with it. I think they were withdrawn together. This is my prototype for a future 7mm model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I need to question the running order of these locomotives. Photo eveidence shows 5068 with the tender at Nationalisation whereas 6951 was running with it in 1956 several years after 4043 had been cut up.and as already stated 5904 is missing from the list. For anyone wanting to model 2586 Falcon Brass/Jidenco have marketed a kit for some years. Here is mine attached to a much modified Hornby Dublo castle running as 5032 Usk Castle, modelled on photo evidence from the mid thirties. Regards Mike Wiltshire 8 wheel tender No. 2586 was built as an experiment in 1931 Over the years it ran with a number of locos and Brian Haresnape (although probably from Alec Swain's research) listed the following locos (in the order in which they had the tender) - 5919, 5001, 5032, 5071, 5049, 5017, 6951, 5068, 4043, 4093, 4918, and 5957 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Higgi Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Hi All The GWR built an collett type tender which ran on an 8 wheel as opposed to 6 wheel chassis, not the inside frame one which was coupled to the Great Bear, Can anyone list me which GW and BR(WR) locos ran coupled to this tender and when, I seem to remember this info was in the RCTS books, but, I don't have them any longer. Ian See 8 wheel tender - Bomp's Pictures - Galleries - RMweb 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Hello all, does anyone know why it was built? All I can think of was to reduce the axle loading. OzzyO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hello all, does anyone know why it was built? All I can think of was to reduce the axle loading. OzzyO. I understood that after the exchange trails with the LNER, it became clear at Swindon, that although the locomotives were state of the art for the time, the tenders were still in the 19th century. The 4000 gallon large tender was the result though it took three years to become the norm for new express construction. As for 2586 it was an experiment that had been mooted for some time to see if there was any advantage with the eight wheel tender as adpoted by the Eastern.Unfortunately full advantage was not taken to increase water capacity at the same time, though due to the extensive trough networkwithin the GWR , 4000 gallon capacity was adequate and there would have been little advantage in the extra weight challenges of the extra 1000 gallons. As 2586 was not built until August 1931 it appears not to have been a priority experiment. As for reduced axle loading, there would have been little requirement within the GWR network in 1930, and the added weight of frames, wheels etc would not have brought axle loading down too much. This was just one of many other investigations going on with the tenders at the same time as 2586 was built. Take a look at photos from the 30's and you will find a variety of different frame shapes, strengtheners, spring hangers etc as Swindon tried to reduce maintenance costs and extend the tender lives. Similar changes were made to 3,500 gallon types. Many of the smaller tenders produced by Hornby/Bachmann etc are models of tenders produced in small numbers based on preserved examples. The new Dukedog has a completetely new tender based on extensive research to produce a tender produced in large numbers appropriate for a large number of 1930's onwards classes. GWR tenders. They have a long, involved and confusing history. One snippet I can add. Tender 2586 was coupled to 5001 from new until 1936 being changed when 5001 moved to Stafford Road. There are several published photographs showing 5001/2586. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hello all, one of the few colour photos of the ex. G.W.R. 8 wheeled tender. Note that there are no brakes on the third axle. OzzyO. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Oak Roger Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Hi All The GWR built an collett type tender which ran on an 8 wheel as opposed to 6 wheel chassis, not the inside frame one which was coupled to the Great Bear, Can anyone list me which GW and BR(WR) locos ran coupled to this tender and when, I seem to remember this info was in the RCTS books, but, I don't have them any longer. Ian There is a picture of this tender in Steam World issue 317 November 2013, coupled to Hall 5904 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Richard E Posted October 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) The picture referred to in post 16 actually appears in post 15 it seems as this shows it coupled to 5904. Edited October 30, 2013 by Richard E Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Higgi Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 The picture referred to in post 16 actually appears in post 15 it seems as this shows it coupled to 5904. And also in 8 wheel tender - Bomp's Pictures - Galleries - RMweb Copyright credited to B Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Hi Mike the Falcon Brass/Jidenco tender is it still available do you no? Regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 Hi Mike the Falcon Brass/Jidenco tender is it still available do you no? Regards Neil It is in the list http://www.falconbrassworks.com/list.php?range=GWR#tender though when it will be available, only the new owners can answer. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Well I've emailed them but had no reply off them. Is there any other kits for this avalible anywhere? Would love to make one! Regards Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Well I've emailed them but had no reply off them. Is there any other kits for this avalible anywhere? Would love to make one! Regards Neil IIRC the body is the standard 4000 gallon one with an eight wheeled set of frames under it. These may help if you wish to have a go at scratch building the frames, OzzyO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 The picture referred to in post 16 actually appears in post 15 it seems as this shows it coupled to 5904. I don't understand this comment, The photo in SW Nov 2013 pages 52-3 is a very different photo - and spectacularly clean! 25/09/61 Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 I don't understand this comment, The photo in SW Nov 2013 pages 52-3 is a very different photo - and spectacularly clean! 25/09/61 Paul Hello all, could some one please send me a scan of the photo that Paul's referring to. TIA OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Hello all, could some one please send me a scan of the photo that Paul's referring to. TIA OzzyO. This is in Smiths now, and the editor frequents this site. So beaware it is in copyright. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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