Wiring "Issues"

[SNCF stephen]

Yes so today I am doing something I vowed that I would never do. That is to put up a picture of my layouts wiring!!!!

Before you look at it prepare yourself because it is GHASTLY!!!

 

 

So there it is.

 

However the main reason behind this post is that I am thinking of doing some work to improve it. My soldering skills are not amazing but I can just about get it done if needs be. However I am confused by how to properly wire Peco point motors. I have had these working properly but there were some serious corners cut and with the layout being remodelled there is a need to rework a few point motors at the very least so I might as well do the whole lot again.

 

So if anyone has any helping hints I would be most grateful. I have 9 point motors that I am running from a single CDU that is powered from a Gaugemaster controller accessory module. I may add a few more point motors in the process of remodelling. One thing I would be very interested in is if there is a proper way to link the wires that are not linked to the switch (the ones that link with the power supply direct to the point motor). These are just soldered en masse to the power supply and this is going to cause problems in the future.

 

I must say that even though it looks the way it does it does all work and I have never had any problems with it whatsoever. Which is always a huge surprise.

 

Many many many thanks in advance.

 

Stephen

[mwrosebury2000]

That looks almost as bad as my old layout. The main piece of advice I would give you is put some lables on the wires, then if something goes wrong you can fix it without trying to trace wires and pulling your hair out... I learnt that the hard way.

 

Mark

[Kenton]

When I used to use solenoids (still have a few lying around) I connected both tags on one side into a continuous run out from the controller and CDU rather than individual wires all going back to the controller onto a tag strip.

 

The downside is this is harder to test when there is a fault

The up side is a lot less wires going back to the CP - as I don't particularly like spaghetti, especially the electrical kind, this is my perosnal preference.

 

The plethora of wires was one of the many reasons I gave up with solenoids and moved to Tortoises.

 

I don't think that wiring is too bad - I have seen and worked with a lot worse. At least there is some colour coding of wires (always a good thing)

There is also a lot to be said for the saying - if it works, leave well alone.

[Jenny Emily]

The spaghetti-rat's-nest is pretty normal for any layout with a lot of electrically operated points, signals and isolating sections. Yours looks pretty tame compared to mine! I used several different colours of wire so that there was an attempt at colour coding. I also use cable ties to neaten up the bundles. Unfortunately other than to use something akin to a pre-packaged wiring loom with D-connectors or DIN plugs on the end there isn't much that can radically simplify it yet retain the functionality of what it is all actually doing.

 

 

The above is where most of the wiring on my layout emerges.

[t-b-g]

Sorry but that is just so tame!!

 

If you want a real bowl of spaghetti, or even a birds nest, try these:

 

They were taken during the recent dismantling of a layout. The loom on the floor is what went from one baseboard to the rest of the layout. Now that the layout has been moved, some poor soul has the job of connecting it all up again!

 

I have long since learned that it is not how neat wiring is that matters. All that counts is "does it work?". Perhaps followed by "Can I put it right if it goes wrong?". I know that it is a dreadful attitude and many will disagree but if I can save time for modelling on top of the board, then I will. To me, scruffy wiring is always so much quicker than neat wiring!!!

[Donw]

When I were nowt but a lad BT exchanges had the cables all laced together very neat but this has been abandon for a spaghetti of cables because its quicker and easier to put a new one in! With wiring if you can identify the ends clearly its easy to replace or change a link. so I use termnial blocks near the devices and wire to them so all the connections from the control panel are brought out to a terminal block. It much easier to sort out rather than fiddling around on the underside of switches. 5A terminal blocks are pretty cheap and you just cut off as many as you need.

 

This shows a group of track feeds collected at the terminal block. The white cables are in and out DCC power ring. I know this is simple but its easier to see the idea rather than somewhere with loads of wire.

Don

[Ron Ron Ron]

A few ideas for neat wiring......

 

mrlwiring1.jpg

 

mrlwiring3.jpg

 

IMG_5656.jpg

 

 

I also like the look of this analogue DC control desk. Someone took a lot of time and effort to produce this......

[Guest dilbert]

Sorry but that is just so tame!!

 

If you want a real bowl of spaghetti, or even a birds nest, try these:

 

Arrgghh -and there is some decent Meccano in there, esp. the 25 hole perforated strips - ye gods ???... dilbert

[Jol Wilkinson]

How about using single core wire (available from Rapid Online and others). It holds the shape you form it to and requires less restaint with clips, etc. than multiple strand wire.

 

It's how most electronic equipment used to be wired up before the days of PCBs.

[Guest stuartp]

If you want a real bowl of spaghetti, or even a birds nest, try these:

 

Is the right hand one a trainset or a loom ?

 

As for the OP, I use the same system as Kenton - both tags on one side connected to a common return.

[PaulCheffus]

How about using single core wire (available from Rapid Online and others). It holds the shape you form it to and requires less restaint with clips, etc. than multiple strand wire.

 

It's how most electronic equipment used to be wired up before the days of PCBs.

 

Hi

 

If the wire never moves then this would be ok but personally I would never use single core wire as it fractures too easily and then its a devil to trace the fault.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[craigwelsh]

t-b-g - You sure that isn't the Dehli telephone network you stumbled across?

 

The only single core wire I use is the 5a backbone for the DCC bus.

 

Having to send individual motors back to a central panel is always going to make the wiring of a layout more complex than a digital option unfortunately. As went went for the MERG cbus accessory modules on the club layout we only have 4 wires to take between the boards and all signals to all accessories travel over two of those wires. Wiring is then local to all points though its not been completely installed yet: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/61/entry-5237-wiring-up-the-new-track-for-the-xmas-social/

[SNCF stephen]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I am very glad that my layout is very tame.

 

I am hoping to use some different techniques with the wiring that I am going to install. For instance I shall be considering using PCB's to distribute the power to multiple wires rather than soldering them all together and I will definitely be using terminal blocks more (the Peco ones I used on the current system are awful).

 

Now I just need to learn how to solder better than I can currently and I might get this done quicker than I did last time!

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hi

 

If the wire never moves then this would be ok but personally I would never use single core wire as it fractures too easily and then its a devil to trace the fault.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Paul,

 

why would the wire move?

 

Clearly you wouldn't use single core where flexibility is required, or for a portable exhibition layout where moving it would cause vibration. But for a rigidly mounted fixed layout then I can't see a problem.

 

 

Jol

[PaulCheffus]

Paul,

 

why would the wire move?

 

Clearly you wouldn't use single core where flexibility is required, or for a portable exhibition layout where moving it would cause vibration. But for a rigidly mounted fixed layout then I can't see a problem.

 

 

Jol

 

Hi

 

I assumed it was a portable layout but even for a fixed layout I personally wouldn't use single core wire.

 

One of our telephone extensions developed a fault this was fixed wiring using standard single core telephone cable and one of the cores broke. So although it might be rigidly fixed it can still fail.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[chris p bacon]

I tried my hardest to keep it tidy but the sheer volume of wiring was against me, I did at least colour code and tag it.

[Il Grifone]

Single core wire shouldn't fail unless subjected to excessive movement or vibration. Failure is often caused by nicking the wire when stripping the insulation. (Our houses are wired with it, though Europe uses stranded cable.) However stranded wire is probably better for layout wiring.

 

I start out with the intention of neat wiring, but it all ends up as spaghetti. (I built quite a few projects that worked perfectly 'bird's nested', but gave problems in the final neat version!

 

Some of my wiring can be seen in my 'Dublo Layout' thread in the Collectable/Vintage section.

[Vanders]

I have long since learned that it is not how neat wiring is that matters. All that counts is "does it work?".

 

Having worked for an Internet Service Provider and having faced a rats nest of (network) cabling, I'd have to disagree. Both are equally complex, and tidy wiring runs make a massive difference.

[t-b-g]

Having worked for an Internet Service Provider and having faced a rats nest of (network) cabling, I'd have to disagree. Both are equally complex, and tidy wiring runs make a massive difference.

 

This whole neat wiring concept seems to come down to having the wires in neat looms rather than each wire doing its own thing.

 

I think if you had included the next line of my posting you would have seen the all important rider to that statement, about being able to put it right when it goes wrong! I have had the pleasure of working with several different people over the years on over a dozen different layout projects. The neatness of the wiring has varied from professional electrical engineering neatness to birds nest. My own wiring is towards the birds nest end. All have worked and the birds nest approach has, to me, offered easier fault finding.

 

Bad wiring is bad wiring, neat or untidy. If all the wires are neatly tied together in looms, it can sometimes make tracing a wiring fault very difficult, as soon as you have more than one of the same colour!

 

What does help is if the wiring has been properly though out and installed in a logical and easy to understand manner, so that it is easy to tell what each wire does. Once you have that and some decent quality soldered joints, the way that the wires get from a switch on the panel to the track is not critical and keeping each wire seperate has advantages in tracing them later. Working under a layout is not easy and being able to tell at a glance which wire goes from a switch to a bit of rail can be very useful.

 

You could put proper cable indents on, or label the wires but as I said before, I would rather spend my valuable modelling time, well....... modelling!

 

It is a quite different matter when you approach some wiring that somebody else has done, as in the photos I posted. Some of those wires actually carry mains power to the layout lights (not for much longer!!). Seeing a birds nest like that makes you wish for a full wiring diagram and neatly labelled tag strips etc. A full rewire has been suggested but I quite like the idea of connecting that lot up (less the mains!) and seeing if I can make it go!