Hugh Flynn Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 Hi Thank you for support,lots of things happening in background i will have more info in a couple of months. Everything is in China with a few parts coming back and having to be modified for moulding machine. Yes lots off wagons still to do, i think there will be a lot of happy face with the second one.Hope to start cad work by the end of May. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I wish you luck with this project Hugh, and will certainly be in the market for a couple of SPAs in original Railfreight Red, even though they are slightly too modern for my chosen modelling period. As to future subjects, there are still plenty of wagons crying out to be made; 21T and 24.5T Mineral and Hopper wagons, Tube and Pipe wagons, to name a few. Looking forward to your next project. None of those fill the gap though, they are all available as kits. Small traders need to support each other and jumping all over parksides range is not going to do Hugh any favours at all. Having said that if someone can't build a parkside pipe wagon kit perhaps they are beyond help! Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I quite agree Jim. There is logic in Hugh remaining with steel carriers although inroads are already being made here. Staying out of other small manufacturers' territory perhaps the 24.5 ton hopper or Cemflo wagons would have some potential but if the latter are done, keep them well away from your Heljan DP2! Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I quite agree Jim. There is logic in Hugh remaining with steel carriers although inroads are already being made here. Staying out of other small manufacturers' territory perhaps the 24.5 ton hopper or Cemflo wagons would have some potential but if the latter are done, keep them well away from your Heljan DP2! Dave. I too agree with Jim - to a point. I know I've said this before, but the broadest sales options have to be pinned on vehicles which span the broadest possible era of operation. At the present that seems to be the transition era of BR where BR steam and diesels mix. Although this appears not to be the era of choice for FTG and Realtrack models (given the latter's recent announcement), there are a few wagon designs that spanned all the way through to the sectorisation era. The Coil K, built in 1960 lasted into the 1990s Here's a 1977 shot at Kidderminster http://paulbartlett....06a0c#h26006a0c Much later, although undated, similar wagons were hauling imported steel through Hamworthy docks to Swindon and the West Midlands http://www.flickr.co...pix/4783538070/ From the same photographer, 37903 on a rake of these in 1991. http://www.flickr.co...pix/3105268486/ Bit of a complicated shape, but an appealing wagon which a modeller can choose how many he / she wants for wagonload or block trains. Ideal choice EDIT Should have mentioned Hywel Thomas' excellent scratchbuilt recreations. http://i619.photobucket.com/albums/tt272/kierhardy/Morfa%20Bank%20Sidings/morfa_coil13.jpg Take a mooch around this excellent site for more inspiration Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Good call, Phil. From comments on the photos I get the impression that these started to be converted to AB in 1966 or thereabouts, is that correct? Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Good call, Phil. From comments on the photos I get the impression that these started to be converted to AB in 1966 or thereabouts, is that correct? Dave. I think they were dual braked, possibly to the end of their lives. Have a feeling they were ferry-fitted for a while, which is probably the reason why they received air in addition to the vacuum brakes, but they were distinctive wagons which I'm sure few modellers would struggle to resist the purchase of at least a couple. They are shortish wagons too which means they don't take up much siding space !!! Stick a BR(WR) 28xx or an 8F on the front, replace it with an EE type 3, or a Brush type 4. Later 56s or 58s or even maybe a 60. Have I sold it yet ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I know I've said this before, but the broadest sales options have to be pinned on vehicles which span the broadest possible era of operation. At the present that seems to be the transition era of BR where BR steam and diesels mix. Not sure I fully agree, the two "biggies" in terms of era's generating sales would seem to be a rough "transition era" (and I suspect most folk doing that will be thinking in terms of modelling the 1950s not the 1960s) and "current" - not sure there is anything much mainstream that you could tool nowadays that would properly bridge both of those two, but aiming to be able to hit one or other of those mass markets seems a logical move and it does match what the likes of Bachmann do. The SPA does that admirably and isn't just a steel carrier, being seen in every part of the country (remember for years many ran as ZAA 'Pike', I have shots of those which range from Truro to Oban!) - By my reckoning they have now been extant for longer than the Coil K was (and counting!) and with no sign of them becoming extinct any time soon. I'm not convinced the Coil K would be as popular as the SPA just because it falls squarely between those two key era's for sales rather than hitting either one. On the other hand it does have distinctiveness and longevity on it's side plus less chance of being "gazumped" by a bigger manufacturer! And whilst i've some sympathy for kit manufacturers, I don't agree that the presence of a kit should automatically mean that no RTR model should be made, in the case of the SPA the Cambrian kit must have been in existence for getting on for 15 years, I would suspect that thousands of them have been bought over that time - i've had my fair share of them!...I think it's had a fair run! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 I too agree with Jim - to a point. I know I've said this before, but the broadest sales options have to be pinned on vehicles which span the broadest possible era of operation. At the present that seems to be the transition era of BR where BR steam and diesels mix. Although this appears not to be the era of choice for FTG and Realtrack models (given the latter's recent announcement), there are a few wagon designs that spanned all the way through to the sectorisation era. The Coil K, built in 1960 lasted into the 1990s Here's a 1977 shot at Kidderminster http://paulbartlett....06a0c#h26006a0c Much later, although undated, similar wagons were hauling imported steel through Hamworthy docks to Swindon and the West Midlands http://www.flickr.co...pix/4783538070/ From the same photographer, 37903 on a rake of these in 1991. http://www.flickr.co...pix/3105268486/ Have you seen this one? Bit of a complicated shape, but an appealing wagon which a modeller can choose how many he / she wants for wagonload or block trains. Ideal choice EDIT Should have mentioned Hywel Thomas' excellent scratchbuilt recreations. http://i619.photobuc...orfa_coil13.jpg Take a mooch around this excellent site for more inspiration Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Not sure I fully agree, the two "biggies" in terms of era's generating sales would seem to be a rough "transition era" (and I suspect most folk doing that will be thinking in terms of modelling the 1950s not the 1960s) and "current" - not sure there is anything much mainstream that you could tool nowadays that would properly bridge both of those two, but aiming to be able to hit one or other of those mass markets seems a logical move and it does match what the likes of Bachmann do. The SPA does that admirably and isn't just a steel carrier, being seen in every part of the country (remember for years many ran as ZAA 'Pike', I have shots of those which range from Truro to Oban!) - By my reckoning they have now been extant for longer than the Coil K was (and counting!) and with no sign of them becoming extinct any time soon. I'm not convinced the Coil K would be as popular as the SPA just because it falls squarely between those two key era's for sales rather than hitting either one. On the other hand it does have distinctiveness and longevity on it's side plus less chance of being "gazumped" by a bigger manufacturer! And whilst i've some sympathy for kit manufacturers, I don't agree that the presence of a kit should automatically mean that no RTR model should be made, in the case of the SPA the Cambrian kit must have been in existence for getting on for 15 years, I would suspect that thousands of them have been bought over that time - i've had my fair share of them!...I think it's had a fair run! I agree with you that the coil carrier is not likely to be half as popular as the SPA, but I wasn't using it as that kind of example. Both vehicles are able to be used as "wagonload traffic" in ones or twos, as well as in block trains. This means that the average modeller / collector who pops into their LHS can pluck one off the shelf. You are probably right that there are few prototypes left which can span both periods you mention. Perhaps the Borail and Salmon (different bogies / brakes) are two. Returning to Hugh's SPA project. I have half a dozen kitbuild SPAs, and am unlikely to shell out for RTR models, although they are not part of my core fleet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Just a small query, and I'm not sure if I've missed it already... But where will the models be available? WIll they be just direct from you, Hugh, or are you going to be suppling retail outlets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted June 1, 2011 Author Share Posted June 1, 2011 Hi James I will be looking for a small number of distributors max 10 and my own web site. After that any model shops / traders will have to buy from distributer. I will start this process once samples are delivered and approved. As an update everything is going very well and there is more info coming out in model mags this/next month. (Dont want to spoil it for them). One of the variations cad design is complete and sent to china for costing. There has been a bit of a turn around on second wagon after some new info coming to light (early last month),So cad designer now has info/drawings on another wagon and is almost ready to make a start. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted June 22, 2011 Author Share Posted June 22, 2011 Hi Just in case you have not seen in mag cad pictures of wagons. Everything going well at moment with sample due within the next 8 weeks. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Hugh Really looking forward to your SPA - have the samples come back from China yet and is all well? Are you looking at distribution yet? (just want to know who to place the orders with!) Thanks, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Hi Samples have come and gone,I am a honest man and would have rated them well below standard this was due to scaling down everything which ended up some parts way to fragile so it was back to drawing board and beefing up slightly also the sides of wagon had to be beefed up due to bending. Now we are on with the second sample being built i am still trying for a xmas release,I was warned they dont rush in China as i was hoping for the release well before Warley but this is now impossible? I will keep you informed as things progress. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted September 21, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 21, 2011 Thanks for the update Hugh. No point rushing and getting it wrong although I am sure you are disappointed the first samples were not up to your standards. Best of luck and looking forward to seeing them. Eamon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Hi I now have recieved my second sample much better than first ,these pictures are a resin master one so some bits look a bid crude but will be ok on mould I have found a few errors upon assembling that need sorting but i am getting closer. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Rather like the original CAD drawings of Dapol's Turbot, the sides don't seem to be talking to the ends. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Hi Hugh, Just wanted to add my best wishes for this project, I believe in supporting innovators in our hobby so will be buying a couple of wagons from you! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Hi thanks John please remember this is a resin model just to see how it fits and looks ,But i know there is several errors to address so i have made contact with cad designer who will put a few errors right next week. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 hi hugh samples look very good look forward to picking up a few for myself as has already been mentioned the cambrian kit is about 15 years old and it shows at the side of modern wagons. Now all I need is someone willing to do a warwell and warflat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Hi All I have thought carefully about posting this, and this is my second draft. Lets not forget that Hugh is investing his hard earned on this project and I assume he is posting pictures for feedback? As such comments like 'samples look very good' and 'the cambrian kit is about 15 years old and it shows' are not very helpful when the samples (be they early ones) look absolutely dire and no where near the quality of the 15 year old cambrian kit. Believe me when I say I am not having a go and I do want Hughs venture to succeed but posting pictures like this along with the comments 'there is several errors to address' and 'will put a few errors right next week' is very worrying. Hugh, is there anything at all in the samples posted that is acceptable? From the pictures posted nothing looks right at all. I appreciate they are test samples but please assure us you are aware just how far there is to go on this? You mentioned originally Warley but now later, Please dont rush this and blow your savings on something that is not as good as something already on the market and cheaper. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi The resin sample is and no where near the finished article a lot of detail has been lost and i will not go ahead until i know it is good enough. I cannot stress this is only a sample and the photos are close ups which does show crudeness of resin sample. There is no metal parts used all metal parts are still resin. With this resin it was terrible to build and it took 2 hours to build but it was mainly to see how the bits fitted yes a couple of tweeks still to do. Something good yes EM wheels drop straight in. And to the naked eye its not as bad as it seems? but its going to get better. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi The resin sample is and no where near the finished article a lot of detail has been lost and i will not go ahead until i know it is good enough. I cannot stress this is only a sample and the photos are close ups which does show crudeness of resin sample. Hugh, this is presumably a rapid prototyped (3d print) straight from the CAD, so whilst I totally accept there will be layering and some loss of detail/definition, this is clearly the basic 'design' that is being worked on in China, and as such there seem to be fairly major problems with some of the bits that are there - perhaps if you share the list of things you think will be changed it would help us understand how far from the finished product these are? For a start the axleboxes, spring hangers and doors all nneed a rethink IMO. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Hi Hugh FYI a P4 wheel is 22 mm over faces on an industry standard 26mm axle. The axle guards on the sample look huge. Will the axle guards be pivoted in some way and will that pivot be linked to the coupling? It would be good at the design stage if you could make the axle guards completely removable for those of us who will want to spring the wagon. Another area you can steal a march on Bachmann is to actually include the brakes! None of bachmanns air braked wagons of this size have any brake calipers or mounting gear at all. If you really want to make some money make this part available as a spare and you will have a market as large as all the Bachmann wagons of this type that have been sold. HTH Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Flynn Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Hi Jim I do not have any p4 wheel sets to try and cad designer has sample wagon to correct errors and check over wagon . To be honest we did the model to scale and to be honest it ended up to delicate and bits would end up dropping off/snapping.Also the body bowed badly. So things are slightly beefed up ,yes the axles do swivel slightly i have got to take into account set track curves/points. As far as brake gear that is one thing i do not have any photos off as i could not see it easy on wagon?So if you have any photos / drawings / sketches It might be able to be done as a extra part. I have read the comments and know there are errors to be addressed but when you see the wagon to the naked eye it is not as bad as it looks on the photos? and have got to say the resin has not been kind to me. Hugh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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