brian777999 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Dart Castings have this AA3 brake van kit on their website. It is listed as a road van. What is a road van and what was it used for ? I cannot find it in any of my GWR books. http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/frogmore/3943.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 The AA3 diagram (in true GWR diagraming tradition) preceded the AA1/2 diagrams there were minor differences and also some differences within the AA3. I have little idea why they were referred to as "road vans" other than perhaps with the fact that they indicated the road clear by their passing. The term probably predates the first AA3 brake van (1888) Also for me, it would be interesting to know - just one of those terms accepted without really asking. PS Quite a good kit but a little fiddly - well with all the usual problems with verandas. The etches are very fine and detailed - some of the parts are thinner than the tags that hold them on (and they are pretty thin). The body is an origami special it is a single piece fold-up and the whole kit depends on you getting the folds perfect - a bit of a challenge. Lots of testing half-etched overlays. A good kit and the instructions are useful. Certainly worth the money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Dart Castings have this AA3 brake van kit on their website. It is listed as a road van. What is a road van and what was it used for ? I cannot find it in any of my GWR books. http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/frogmore/3943.php A 'Road Van' was a brake van with space for small consigments of goods, sometimes with facilities for the guard to weigh the items and write consigment notes. They could be distinguished from ordinary brake vans by the prescence of double doors in the side. They were used on lines where there were limited goods facilities at some stations. At the junction station,or another convenient point, the small consignments would be consilidated with others, and forwarded in a normal goods van. Though the practice died out in the UK (the LSWR, and possibly other railways, had such vehicles as well as the GWR), the standard SNCF goods fourgon retained such a role until the 1960s, and possibly beyond. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 A 'Road Van' was generally, I believe, a brake van with space for small consigments of goods, ... Though the practice died out in the UK ... My understanding also. We have had previous discussions on the ScR's penchant for borrowing SR BYs (Van Cs) during the '60s for this use on (inter alia) the Ballachulish branch goods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 That will be the Frogmore kit - travelling at the moment, but ISTR that only two AA3 roadvans were built by the GWR ... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 That will be the Frogmore kit - travelling at the moment, but ISTR that only two AA3 roadvans were built by the GWR ... dilbert According to Atkins "More than 500 of these (AA3) were built up to 1901. The earliest (1888) were 13t the later ones being 16t and 20t after 1901 the picture becomes cloudy as the AA1 (25t) and AA2 (6w) were built essentially a heavier AA3 (not only differences). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 According to Atkins "More than 500 of these (AA3) were built up to 1901. The earliest (1888) were 13t the later ones being 16t and 20t after 1901 the picture becomes cloudy as the AA1 (25t) and AA2 (6w) were built essentially a heavier AA3 (not only differences). Again I don't have the references to hand but the road vans (those with side loading doors in the main part of the body were built) as part of a standard AA3 Toad brake van build - there were two lots of the AA3s that had a road included tin the lot... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Again I don't have the references to hand but the road vans (those with side loading doors in the main part of the body were built) as part of a standard AA3 Toad brake van build - there were two lots of the AA3s that had a road included tin the lot... dilbert If that is correct - only the AA3 with side loading doors - I am yet to see photographic evidence of such a feature but am happy to be proved wrong - ... then this kit is NOT of a "road van" as there is no door on the side other than the veranda door. We are not perhaps in some confusion with the eleven 18ft stores vans Diag BB1 which did have side doors (among the very few GWR vans with sliding doors) and were built on Lot9 in 1894, two 'specials' of which were built later in 1902 at 8t. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Sorry Kenton, but Dilbert is right. There were two AA3 vans built with side doors for use as Road Vans. The first one was 17600 built on Lot 327 in 1900. It was piped in 1911 and had full vac brake fitted in 1912. It had screw couplings. It was first allocated to Pontrilas for use on the Golden Valley branch to Hay but had moved to the equally bucolic Kington branch by 1937ish. The other one was 56448 built on Lot 338 in 1901. This also had screw couplings and was piped at least, possibly vac fitted. By 1918 it was at Aberdare but moved to the Cirencester branch in 1922 and stayed there at least into BR days. As stated they were for small consignments on lines were traffic did not warrant the use of a Station Truck. There are photos of both of them in the gospel according to Atkins/Beard/Tourret. The Dart Casting kit is for this variant. The Frogmore and Southwark Bridge kits are for the standard type AA3 Toad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Thanks Richard for correcting me and the additional information - and an apology to dilbert for doubting. Having had an even closer look at the Dart castings website (I didn't before - just going on previous visits and personal experience of building the Frogmore AA3) I now see there is even more egg on face as the website page not only has an image of the completed kit but I now clearly see it listed as a different kit. This must be a new(ish) addition and obviously one I need to add to my (to do list) - I actually have another AA3 and one of the AA13 kits to do already but feel I owe them one!! Besides I just love GWR oddities. Ah well, I have learned something today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Thanks Richard for correcting me and the additional information - and an apology to dilbert for doubting. Having had an even closer look at the Dart castings website (I didn't before - just going on previous visits and personal experience of building the Frogmore AA3) I now see there is even more egg on face as the website page not only has an image of the completed kit but I now clearly see it listed as a different kit. This must be a new(ish) addition and obviously one I need to add to my (to do list) - I actually have another AA3 and one of the AA13 kits to do already but feel I owe them one!! Besides I just love GWR oddities. Ah well, I have learned something today That's not a problem - it can be difficult at times replying to prototype question when you are 100s of kms from source references... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 As stated they were for small consignments on lines were traffic did not warrant the use of a Station Truck. There are photos of both of them in the gospel according to Atkins/Beard/Tourret. On which page is the photo of the road van ? I have that book (1986 combined edition) and I found no reference to it which is why I asked the question here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted March 24, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 24, 2011 On which page is the photo of the road van ? I have that book (1986 combined edition) and I found no reference to it which is why I asked the question here. The pictures are Plates 631 and 632 on pages 468 and 469. HTH SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 The pictures are Plates 631 and 632 on pages 468 and 469. HTH SS But that is in the 1998 "revised and augmented" edition* which is what I used; they probably weren't in the 1986 edition. Ironically the GWR acquired a whole load more road vans when they took over the MSWJR in 1923 – and then proceeded to block up the doors! * the best £39.90 I ever spent... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 But that is in the 1998 "revised and augmented" edition* which is what I used; they probably weren't in the 1986 edition. Ironically the GWR acquired a whole load more road vans when they took over the MSWJR in 1923 – and then proceeded to block up the doors! * the best £39.90 I ever spent... So that explains it. The edition I am using only has 224 pages in total ! I think I must be missing a lot of photos and information. The only copy of the 1998 edition I can find is from the Transport Store for 145 pounds. I could buy a City of Truro for that price ! It looks like it is going to be one of those hard to find books. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 So that explains it. The edition I am using only has 224 pages in total ! I think I must be missing a lot of photos and information. The only copy of the 1998 edition I can find is from the Transport Store for 145 pounds. I could buy a City of Truro for that price ! It looks like it is going to be one of those hard to find books. They do sometimes crop up on eBay where they go for rather less than £145 ! You should be able to pick one up for less than £50.... Carpe diem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS239 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Wagonman, Does the information regarding the allocations of these brake vans come from the Atkins/Beard/Tourret book?, only I'd like to find out where the 6W vans were allocated.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi Wagonman, Does the information regarding the allocations of these brake vans come from the Atkins/Beard/Tourret book?, only I'd like to find out where the 6W vans were allocated.. Is this any use? www.gwr.org.uk/notes/brakeallocations.doc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Is this any use? www.gwr.org.uk/notes/brakeallocations.doc Shame it is only really late dates 1934-44 with one exception. It would be better if it had the whole period from out-shopped. (though I admit - and once again could be very wrong - they were initially shared out pretty evenly between Aberdare, Severn Tunnel Junction and Stoke Gifford being primarily used on mainline heavy coal trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS239 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Thanks for that link Fat Controller, I'm sure I've got some similar info in an old copy of MRC,but,typically,it seems to have gone AWOL..I am interested in the early BR period myself..I'm sure I've seen photo of a dia.AA1 with a W prefix no. The first one was 17600 built on Lot 327 in 1900. It was piped in 1911 and had full vac brake fitted in 1912. It had screw couplings. It was first allocated to Pontrilas for use on the Golden Valley branch to Hay but had moved to the equally bucolic Kington branch by 1937ish. Back to the OP,according to the info in FC's link,17600 was still at Kington in 1946,and was also at Lympster and the Pontcylte Branch,although no dates for those allocations are given. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagonman Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I have a copy of the list on my HD but couldn't remember where it came from, so thanks Fat Controller. I think that that list is about as comprehensive as we'll get as allocations were often not recorded at Swindon (or anywhere else) so it is otherwise just down to luck and a good photo. Apart from 56923 which was destroyed in the Shrivenham crash in 1936 most of these vans seem to have survived until the early 1950s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 But that is in the 1998 "revised and augmented" edition* which is what I used; they probably weren't in the 1986 edition. Ironically the GWR acquired a whole load more road vans when they took over the MSWJR in 1923 – and then proceeded to block up the doors! * the best £39.90 I ever spent... Can somebody who owns the full 1998 edition with photos of road vans tell me what lettering is on the AA3 road van ? Is it similar to the usual brake vans or is there something else there regarding parcels perhaps ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 In the 1937 style of lettering, the road van has 'RU' (Restricted Use) under the depot name. Additionally, it has an XP marking on the first panel on the veranda end. Under the XP marking is "WB 13'O" (which I think relates to the 13ft wheelbase)... dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted March 27, 2011 Author Share Posted March 27, 2011 In the 1937 style of lettering, the road van has 'RU' (Restricted Use) under the depot name. Additionally, it has an XP marking on the first panel on the veranda end. Under the XP marking is "WB 13'O" (which I think relates to the 13ft wheelbase)... dilbert So to depict it in an earlier period with the 25 inch lettering (1904-1922) it seems that it would not be all that different to a normal AA3 brake van. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dilbert Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 Sounds like a good assumption to me - of course, a photo would be the ideal recourse,.. dilbert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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