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Eastwood Town - We're gonna need a bigger board.....:-)


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1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

For those mystified by electrons shuffling to and fro in wires, you can if you prefer use string instead:

 

 https://templot.com/info/wooden_point_motors_1956.pdf

 

Sorry if I have posted this before.

 

p.s. this is a serious post, it is actually a very clever idea. The modular lever frame is an obvious candidate for 3D filament printing.

 

Martin.

 

All well and good, but where is the interface board for Gordon's Wurlitzer?

 

Mike.

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1 hour ago, martin_wynne said:

 

For those mystified by electrons shuffling to and fro in wires, you can if you prefer use string instead:

 

 https://templot.com/info/wooden_point_motors_1956.pdf

 

Sorry if I have posted this before.

 

p.s. this is a serious post, it is actually a very clever idea. The modular lever frame is an obvious candidate for 3D filament printing.

 

Martin.

 

The more I read on DCC control systems, the more I'm attracted to the idea of mechanical point and signal control with proper mechanical interlocking on the frame, seems easier and more prototypical .... ;)

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28 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

All well and good, but where is the interface board for Gordon's Wurlitzer?

 

Mike.

 

3 bits of springy brass/phosbronze and a staple.

 

Or in the 3D-printed version, a heat-sealable stud mounting for small microswitch. No relays or electronics needed.

 

Martin.

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44 minutes ago, AngusDe said:

 

The more I read on DCC control systems, the more I'm attracted to the idea of mechanical point and signal control with proper mechanical interlocking on the frame, seems easier and more prototypical .... ;)

They're not mutually exclusive. I use DCC to drive the trains and to set the routes in the storage loops (think an electronic version of a diode matrix) but the points and signals at the station are worked by a Modratec (usual disclaimer) interlocked mechanical lever frame (admittedly the points and signals themselves are powered electrically but not by DCC).

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52 minutes ago, AngusDe said:

The more I read on DCC control systems, the more I'm attracted to the idea of mechanical point and signal control with proper mechanical interlocking on the frame, seems easier and more prototypical ....

It depends on how you wish to use it.

 

Personally, I am in favour of DCC for control of locos and maybe lights on passenger vehicles, but mechanical control of points and signals because that's how the railways were operated during the periods that interest me. Put another way, to convert a DC layout to DCC, replace one of or the only controller with a DCC system, switch everything to it, and switch all isolating sections on. (Later, if so desired, juicers could power the frog.) 

 

Most of the route mileage in North America is operated according to different principles to here, and to some extent the ideas within DCC were developed to suit that, with the ability for the "engine crew" (driver) to switch turnouts, etc.

 

That said, there are hybrid systems available, where the lever frame sends the appropriate messages to the DCC command centre, which converts them into DCC signals and they are they carried down the buss bar wires to decoders, which then instruct the point machines to do their thing.

 

But it is mistaken to view what Gordon is currently trying to achieve as a criticism of DCC. If I understand things correctly, Gordon has established his route setting within the ECoS system he uses for DCC, and this is working very well. Under discussion here is how to display the settings on a larger route panel, without using lots of wire back to that panel.

 

It would be easy enough to use contacts on the point motors to sequentially feed the route setting to LEDs, but as well as the common return, that would require one wire per diode. That's a lot of wires. But this has nothing to do with using DCC per se, just that if old-fashioned switches were used, then DPDT switches on the control frame could use one set of terminals to control the point motor, and the other set to light up the appropriate diode. This would still require a wire for each LED, plus the return, as well as two wires plus the common return for each of the point machines.

 

I don't know enough to know how it would be done, but I believe that the number of wires between the layout and the display panel could be reduced by something like multiplexing. There would still need to be wires from the extra switch terminals to the multiplexer, but maybe there could be just a few such systems, placed near to groups of turnouts, with two wires from each going to the decoder side of things on the panel.

 

Alternatively, if ECoS could output the route settings to a larger monitor, then the problem would go away!

Edited by Regularity
Aha, I see our antipodean friend is up and about!
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1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

I've been up and about for the last 15 hours!

Now, you just think you have.

In reality, you are upside down, but the clock isn't.

Or something like that.

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Hi Peeps

 

Well, whilst you were all scratching your heads yesterday, I was wandering around in the sunshine, deep in the Cotswolds. It's easy to see why this is such an attractive part of the country and the weather Gods were really kind to us. The wet of Wednesday and the gales of today just parted and we enjoyed wall to wall sunshine for a few hours.

 

Despite our best efforts, our club trailed in second to the Masters of Minchinhampton, but they did buy the beers and the curry lunch, so not all bad. Just waiting for the return leg in a few weeks time where we will be looking for another 'miracle at Medina' to retain the trophy for a second year.

 

The good news is that spending three hours traveling and another four hours wandering cleared my head and suddenly there was a Eureka moment. Think like a signalman, I said to myself and once I had that thought in my head, it all fell into place. I appreciate that has been mentioned before, but if you've not been a signalman before, it takes a while to grasp the concept.

 

Basically any route that crosses another has to switch off any other route, so in cutting across the whole station throat, it now switches off all routes through ET meaning nothing can continue until such time a new route is set. The platform lights will be off, so an operator can see they cannot proceed and the only way to change that is to set a new route which will then switch off the one previously set.

 

That's all fine in practice, but then you realise there are situations where parallel running can happen without risk of collision. Managed to shut myself away and sit quietly to go though every route in turn and decide which lights can stay on and which have to go off.  For instance a train on line 3 can go to platforms 3A - 7 without impacting lines 1-2, so those routes can stay on, but any time it requires trains to halt from the opposite direction, those routes shut down, with only the correct 'cross station' route showing. 

 

Spent a couple of hours prodding the ECoS this morning and now have the left approach complete and working. Hopefully there won't be too many issues arise when I start the other side this afternoon.

 

Many thanks to everyone who has chipped in with ideas. They all had their merits, but I was always hopeful if I stared at this thing long enough a programming solution would eventually jump out at me. It just needed a complete break from the problem for it to emerge.

 

At least that means I can forget the last few weeks navel gazing and get on with the control panel....:drink_mini:

 

No golf until Monday now, but I can see a list of domestic jobs on the horizon....

 

 

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Really pleased you’ve sorted in your mind how to do it.  Looking forward to seeing the result.

Lots of folk said it had to be simple and it looks like you have found ‘simple’ at last.

Might be fun if we could see people’s reaction as they read through all this in 12 months and then come across the answer!!!

:-)

Paul.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 19/08/2020 at 21:35, Ian_H said:

and the answer is ...............

 

Levers, Pulleys and Bowden Cable.  Worked pretty well in the Battle of Britain; the Dambusters dabbled too I hear.

Who needs Fly-by-Wire??

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Sorry guys, I haven't forgotten you. After much soldering with 3mm led's, I decided the route illumination didn't add anything and in fact just made it less clear which line was selected. The amount of work adding resistors to every led and cutting and splicing around 300 wires seemed to be a never ending task which wasn't going to provide what was needed. Decided to go with a mid size panel and the plug in capability of the DCC Concepts original led's, so just waiting for a new panel.

 

Add in a few golf competitions and some domestic jobs and it's all gone quiet over there......

 

Not quite the FEDex, but in contention after one round of the Super Seniors net competition, so a fair amount of time will be down the range. I wonder if Dustin Johnson is a happy boy after winning $15m yesterday.....

 

Another couple of months and it will  be back indoors again....:-)

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KISS (keep it simple, stupid) should be put on my gravestone......or should that be Kiss Me Quick....those were the days.

 

Middle of the golfing season, so not a lot has been done other than abandoning a bright idea of fitting 3mm blue led's to provide route illumination on a smaller panel. Not one of my better ideas....

 

I got around a third of the way through and then the penny dropped and rain stopped play..

 

DSCF1236.jpg.81b02beffda91a61738bb4b049c48679.jpg

 

Not only were the routes not clear, the amount of soldering resistors in series and splicing the wiring completely overcame any potential benefits that were planned but not delivered.

 

DSCF1237.jpg.6fed8d16be9d59fd96583e2b26332caa.jpg

 

Took myself off to banging balls around again and waited for a new panel to arrive which would accept the larger leds with no modifications.

 

Voila!

 

DSCF1273.jpg.a91379dd490e7c7fca4e276ea965b343.jpg

 

Route indication has gone and now platform lights show green when available and red if a route is blocked or not selected. Tested and it works....

 

The diagonal crossover lines were a big mistake, so back to the drawing board and a return to vertical stacking with a green to go ahead and red to show a route incorrectly set.

 

DSCF1274.jpg.d962080f6434bc6b07311d301696f03d.jpg

 

Final panel size is down from the original and now sits at 860 x 287. Big enough to see clearly without dominating the whole control station.

 

With any luck some holes will be drilled and 97 plug in led's will be fitted. This is a reduction from 160 of the 3mm jobbies and no soldering or adding resistors to make the lights shine. At least this will allow this bit to be completed and I can get back to track building a few new crossovers.

 

....and in my best Archers voice, I'm worried about my irons. I may need to rob the eBay piggy bank to buy a new set. If you thought railway modelling was complex, don't ever take up golf.......Lie angles, loft angles, dispersion, trajectory, swing path and club path are enough to tip anyone over the edge........:D

 

 

Edited by gordon s
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1 hour ago, gordon s said:

and in my best Archers voice, I'm worried about my irons. I may need to rob the eBay piggy bank to buy a new set. If you thought railway modelling was complex, don't ever take up golf.......Lie angles, loft angles, dispersion, trajectory, swing path and club path are enough to tip anyone over the edge........

 

As my golfing mate once said to me, there's one born every minute, stick to playing trains!

Guidance I have diligently followed.

 

Mike.

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12 hours ago, gordon s said:

KISS (keep it simple, stupid) should be put on my gravestone......or should that be Kiss Me Quick....those were the days.

 

 

....and in my best Archers voice, I'm worried about my irons. I may need to rob the eBay piggy bank to buy a new set. If you thought railway modelling was complex, don't ever take up golf.......Lie angles, loft angles, dispersion, trajectory, swing path and club path are enough to tip anyone over the edge........:D

 

 

 

 

Gordon

 

Good to see everything coming together, I must admit I have been popping in and out over the last few months as most things are way above my head, the control panels are just fab

 

KISS  reminds me of many sales training sessions I was forced to attend over the years

 

As for golf, a bag full of clubs most of which are rarely used during a round, then how many drivers and putters does a golfer need? 

 

Corvid scuppered my golfing return this year, I did plan to go down to the range after a 4+ years of inactivity

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22 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I think we're all guilty as charged, how many locos, coaches and wagons do we need?

 

Mike.

 

Quite probably the same answer: one more.

 

Just one more.

 

It's completely different.

 

Can't possibly live without it. 

 

If you really loved me ...

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They all are.....:D

 

We finally made the decision that my 91 year old MiL would be coming to live with us permanently. Unlike many, she's a diamond and always makes us chuckle, so have converted our study into a bedroom for her and had a wash basin put in, plus an adjustable single bed, wardrobe and chest of drawers. All went well until she fell on Tuesday night and caught her ribs on the edge of a coffee table. Paramedics in and off to hospital, much against her will, but a no brainer as she was struggling to breathe. She came home yesterday, very bruised and battered, but at least nothing was broken.

 

Last night she was in so much pain, she couldn't sleep in the new bed and sat in a chair all night, so of course first job this morning was to bring her double bed down from upstairs and remove the brand new adjustable bed, which with a steel frame and all the motors etc weighed a ton.......:D

 

Needless to say the room is marginal for a double bed, but it's in.

 

No idea if we can come to an arrangement with the shop, but we now have a brand new new adjustable bed, that is not needed as I suspect she will stay in her old one.....Bless.  :)

 

18 holes in the sun awaits. I wonder if my clubs will behave this morning....

 

Hoping to drill some holes and fit leds in the next few days, so no doubt more tales will follow.

 

Stay safe...

 

Edited by gordon s
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1 hour ago, gordon s said:

 

Hoping to drill some holes and fit leds in the next few days, so no doubt more tales will follow.

 

 

Can't MiL do it for you whilst you are playing golf?

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Just back home and heard most of the NE is now on lockdown. I feel for you guys, so stay safe.

 

Clubs were marginal, but a decent pint of Doom Bar and a lot of laughs made up for it.

 

I joke with MiL that she is the oldest Au Pair in town. She's always asking to do the washing up or ironing and certainly does her bit around the house. Of course she's banned from any household duties right now. I've never seen bruising like it....

 

Makes you realise just how vulnerable the elderly are....

 

US Open starts tonight, so another late night watching guys make a difficult game look easy and the Welsh wanderer returns to Spurs. Probably a little richer for the experience. No doubt he's just in time for a good kicking from Leeds United.......Nothing changes....:D

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3 hours ago, gordon s said:

 just in time for a good kicking from Leeds United.......Nothing changes....:D

 

Norman stopped playing for Leeds many years ago, so although you might get a kicking, you wouldn't be able to class it as a good kicking unless Norman did it!

 

Spurs vs Leeds 2 Jan'21?

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  • gordon s changed the title to Eastwood Town - We're gonna need a bigger board.....:-)

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