Any Question Answered

[Caley Jim]

I used to have a poster on my study wall w which said; 'when you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on'!

 

Jim

[Chris Higgs]

On 31/03/2019 at 18:02, WM183 said:

I've officially sent my application off to join the association, and am eager to order the beginner's guide, the track book, and perhaps some easy track bits. I do have a question though; does the association make any GWR cattle wagons (W2, etc) or am I into scratchbuild territory with the bodies for those?

Thanks much all! 

 

Amanda

 

Ian Smith (see the Modbury thread) did some 3D prints of cattle wagons although I don't think they are available commercially.

 

You can build a large GWR cattle wagon by combining the Association BR Cattle wagon body with a 11'6" DC braked etched underframe.

 

Chris

[Guest WM183]

16 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

Ian Smith (see the Modbury thread) did some 3D prints of cattle wagons although I don't think they are available commercially.

 

You can build a large GWR cattle wagon by combining the Association BR Cattle wagon body with a 11'6" DC braked etched underframe.

 

Chris

Oh, thank you! I saw that in the list of 2mm wagons linked earlier, but wondered which underframe it was; I'd have probably tried to use the 9' one!

Thanks again!

Amanda

[MrSimon]

Hi, 

 

A few months back I saw the bits from one of the starter wagon packs online, and won it. At the weekend I got it out to build and it’s baffled me - there aren’t any instructions!  The body was for one of the standard 16t mineral wagons, which I built as normal.

 

There’s a bag with white metal axlebox/springs and buffers, and I can fit them just fine but there’s parts of the etch that have me stumped...

 

 

Normally I just look on the assoc site and use them online but it’s not there.   

 

I can see that I need to solder on the solebars, the brake(s) go on the tabs that fold out the main chassis, I’m going to use the buffer beam that’s already on the plastic body, but what are the rectangular parts with the 4 etched lines and circular holes for?

 

Thanks in advance!

Simon

[Chris Higgs]

5 minutes ago, MrSimon said:

Hi, 

 

A few months back I saw the bits from one of the starter wagon packs online, and won it. At the weekend I got it out to build and it’s baffled me - there aren’t any instructions!  The body was for one of the standard 16t mineral wagons, which I built as normal.

 

There’s a bag with white metal axlebox/springs and buffers, and I can fit them just fine but there’s parts of the etch that have me stumped...

 

 

Normally I just look on the assoc site and use them online but it’s not there.   

 

I can see that I need to solder on the solebars, the brake(s) go on the tabs that fold out the main chassis, I’m going to use the buffer beam that’s already on the plastic body, but what are the rectangular parts with the 4 etched lines and circular holes for?

 

Thanks in advance!

Simon

 

Hmm, I don't think that is from one of the current starter kits. A 1985 vintage Mike Bryant underframe is indeed nothing you will find on the website these days. I doubt whether the current wheels are compatible with that. Do you have wheels with it?

 

There might be someone on here old enough to remember these and help you...

 

Chris

[Ian Smith]

That looks like a wooden underframe chassis too, probably not suitable for a BR mineral wagon. But then they were built after 1910 so what would I know :-) .  Trying to remember what was available when I was a member in the 1980's, I wouldn't be surprised if the old 12mm axles fit it either (or were they 12.25). I would imagine that the larger bits with 2 holes and various etch bend lines are supports for one of the earlier forms of coupling - I think Mike did a hook and bar type coupling back in the day.

Ian

[Caley Jim]

Like Ian, 16T mineral wagons are far too modern for my taste and I've never seen an etch like that. Coupling supports were the first thing that came to mind, but where to locate them?  Why is there a series of slots at each end and what are the two longitudinal slots neat either end for? 

 

Mike did develope the MBM coupling which was like an upside down Tri-ang tension lock. 

 

Jim 

Edited April 9, 2019 by Caley Jim

[Yorkshire Square]

1 minute ago, Ian Smith said:

That looks like a wooden underframe chassis too, probably not suitable for a BR mineral wagon. But then they were built after 1910 so what would I know :-) .  Trying to remember what was available when I was a member in the 1980's, I wouldn't be surprised if the old 12mm axles fit it either (or were they 12.25). I would imagine that the larger bits with 2 holes and various etch bend lines are supports for one of the earlier forms of coupling - I think Mike did a hook and bar type coupling back in the day.

Ian

 

Yes, the holed bits are for the couplings. The axle length is more likely to be 13mm. Our current standard axle length is 12.25mm as specified by Bill Blackburn in the late eighties and as used on all of our etched chassis since.

 

Current sampler kit, which also includes a small length of Easitrac here: http://2mm.org.uk/products/nms/index.html

[Ian Morgan]

I would advise you get the correct chassis (2-353 a, b or c) from the Association shop. I find the newer nickel-silver etches are stiffer, and fold up much more easily that the old brass ones.

 

 

[MrSimon]

Hi, yep it’s got wheels with slightly longer axels and slightly thicker wheels:

 

 

The kit only had one bearing, I think I can guess why it was never built! 

 

Reading all the comments above I agree it’s definitely an etch for the bits box. Thanks for your help everyone! 

 

Cheers

Simon

[Guest WM183]

Hi folks.

I have another question, if I may? I am considering using Finetrax N scale track to avoid having to convert steam locomotives to 2mm, but otherwise using etched 2mm chassis (and bodies) for stock and so on. Can the wheels sold by the society be regauged to N? I've got a rather nice Dapol 5700 now, and am quite nervous to take it to bits and convert it, and I will be getting a 45xx next (which is even fiddlier!)

Can N scale equipment run on 2mm association Easitrack? The bits I have here seem to work quite nicely with some American N scale cars I've rolled along it.

All the best,

Amanda

[Ian Morgan]

N gauge wheels will run on plain finescale track, but the overthick flanges will have trouble passing through points even when re-gauged.

 

Finescale wheels, re-gauged will run on plain N track and may pass through points OK, but the narrow treads and fine flanges could allow them to hit the point of the V, or try to take the wrong route.

 

[Guest WM183]

43 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said:

N gauge wheels will run on plain finescale track, but the overthick flanges will have trouble passing through points even when re-gauged.

 

Finescale wheels, re-gauged will run on plain N track and may pass through points OK, but the narrow treads and fine flanges could allow them to hit the point of the V, or try to take the wrong route.

 

I was unclear with my question, my apologies! Will regauged 2mm wheelsets run on Finetrax? It looks virtually identical to Easitrack to me?

 

https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-flexi-metre.htm

[Chris Higgs]

18 minutes ago, WM183 said:

I was unclear with my question, my apologies! Will regauged 2mm wheelsets run on Finetrax? It looks virtually identical to Easitrack to me?

 

https://www.britishfinescale.com/product-p/finetrax-flexi-metre.htm

 

The answer was that already given - they will run on plain Finetrax, but you will not be able to build points (switches) than can work with both 2mm wheels and also those fitted to N Gauge RTR stock. If you leave a larger checkrail gap to accomodate NMRA N Gauge wheels (which have a 0.5mm thickness flange) then the 2mm FS wheels (which have a 0.3mm thickness flange) will not function correctly, they are likely to derail.

 

And the opposite is also not going to work, N gauge wheels will just get jammed in 2mm FS points which have a 0.5mm checkrail gap.

 

Trust me, if either of these did work, there would be a lot of people already doing it.

 

The reason everything seems fine to you is because you don't have any points.

 

Chris

Edited April 15, 2019 by Chris Higgs

[Guest WM183]

7 minutes ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

The answer was that already given - they will run on plain Finetrax, but you will not be able to build points (switches) than can work with both 2mm wheels and also those fitted to N Gauge RTR stock. If you leave a larger checkrail gap to accomodate NMRA N Gauge wheels (which have a 0.5mm thickness flange) then the 2mm FS wheels (which have a 0.3mm thickness flange) will not function correctly, they are likely to derail.

 

And the opposite is also not going to work, N gauge wheels will just get jammed in 2mm FS points which have a 0.5mm checkrail gap.

 

Trust me, if either of these did work, there would be a lot of people already doing it.

 

The reason everything seems fine to you is because you don't have any points.

 

Chris

I suppose my question was the flangeway width on the Finetrax, which you've so elegantly and succinctly answered. Thank you.

[Yorkshire Square]

If you do go down the Finetrax route, you can still use Association wagon kits by fitting them with 2-027 which are N Gauge wheels on 12.25mm axles.

[Guest WM183]

1 hour ago, Yorkshire Square said:

If you do go down the Finetrax route, you can still use Association wagon kits by fitting them with 2-027 which are N Gauge wheels on 12.25mm axles.

Oh! That is good news! Thank you!

[Izzy]

The 2mm wheels on N track question was asked on the NGF a little while ago and Wayne (of fiNeTrax) replied that 2mm wheels would tend to drop into the crossings (as they do with Peco N track) because of the narrower tread, although they will run okay on plain line 9mm track with a btb of 7.9mm.

 

There are quite a few taking the N wheels/2 mm kits route. Take a look here:

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=44927.0

 

Izzy

 

[Yorkshire Square]

Which also usefully mentions using 2-047 axles for re-axling NMRA N gauge wheels.

[Guest WM183]

Thank you guys. The 2mm association's kits with the N scale axles and conversion axles seems like the exact answer.

[Chris Higgs]

30 minutes ago, Izzy said:

The 2mm wheels on N track question was asked on the NGF a little while ago and Wayne (of fiNeTrax) replied that 2mm wheels would tend to drop into the crossings (as they do with Peco N track) because of the narrower tread, although they will run okay on plain line 9mm track with a btb of 7.9mm.

 

There are quite a few taking the N wheels/2 mm kits route. Take a look here:

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=44927.0

 

Izzy

 

 

I think you will find that with 0.3mm flange thickness and 0.8mm checkrails that the checkrail does not prevent the flange passing the wrong side of the frog - which is after all why it is there. This is more severe than just dropping into the gap. Of course a lot if times it may pass through without issue.

 

Chris

 

 

[Chris Higgs]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

The 2mm wheels on N track question was asked on the NGF a little while ago and Wayne (of fiNeTrax) replied that 2mm wheels would tend to drop into the crossings (as they do with Peco N track) because of the narrower tread, although they will run okay on plain line 9mm track with a btb of 7.9mm.

 

There are quite a few taking the N wheels/2 mm kits route. Take a look here:

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=44927.0

 

Izzy

 

 

This is a useful tutorial to building the chassis in any case (N or 2mm). You are supposed to file the bearing cups down as shown at the end of the thread, although I tend to do it after attaching the first solebar layer.

 

Chris

[OFFTHE RAILS]

6 hours ago, WM183 said:

Hi folks.

I have another question, if I may? I am considering using Finetrax N scale track to avoid having to convert steam locomotives to 2mm, but otherwise using etched 2mm chassis (and bodies) for stock and so on. Can the wheels sold by the society be regauged to N? I've got a rather nice Dapol 5700 now, and am quite nervous to take it to bits and convert it, and I will be getting a 45xx next (which is even fiddlier!)

Can N scale equipment run on 2mm association Easitrack? The bits I have here seem to work quite nicely with some American N scale cars I've rolled along it.

 

I use the excellent code 40 FiNetrax track and points for the visible areas on my model railway with code 80 ready made track and points in the hidden area.

The FiNetrax is virtually indistiguishable from 2mm association Easitrack (except in the frog clearances) and accepts all modern British 'N' RTR.

 

My locos and stock are all RTR 'N'. I don't use 2mm kits because they are made to 2mm/ft scale as opposed to British  'N' which is 2.0625mm/ft.

This means that 'N' locos and stock are nearly 9% bigger in volume than 2mm vehicles – quite noticeable when the vehicles are in a mixed train.

Ian

[2mm Andy]

34 minutes ago, OFFTHE RAILS said:

 

I use the excellent code 40 FiNetrax track and points for the visible areas on my model railway with code 80 ready made track and points in the hidden area.

The FiNetrax is virtually indistiguishable from 2mm association Easitrack (except in the frog clearances) and accepts all modern British 'N' RTR.

 

My locos and stock are all RTR 'N'. I don't use 2mm kits because they are made to 2mm/ft scale as opposed to British  'N' which is 2.0625mm/ft.

This means that 'N' locos and stock are nearly 9% bigger in volume than 2mm vehicles – quite noticeable when the vehicles are in a mixed train.

Ian

 

The usual practice is to quote the linear scale difference (3%) rather than the volume. A lot of modellers seem to quite happily use both 2mm and N scale stock, although I would agree that mixing the two scales in one train can be quite noticeable. Differences in height and width are more noticeable than length usually, especially in rakes of what should be uniform stock (such as coaches).

 

Andy

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

I think you will find that with 0.3mm flange thickness and 0.8mm checkrails that the checkrail does not prevent the flange passing the wrong side of the frog - which is after all why it is there. This is more severe than just dropping into the gap. Of course a lot if times it may pass through without issue.

 

Chris

 

 

 

As I dragged the 7.9mm figure from some dark recess back in the time I had some small involvement with 2mm wheel making I thought perhaps I should just double-check as I have been known to be wrong before..........and it doesn't seem to add up does it?

At the time the measurement arose no N wheelsets or conversion axles were available, seemed unlikely to be in the future, and I was casting around for alternative options i.e. using 2FS wheelsets at a different btb for N use, that might be feasible.

 

I have just dug out the two peco points, one live/one dead frog, that were used to test the theory ( I don't think fiNetrax was around then), and yes, 7.9mm is the figure, just. (Peco have the same checkrail clearance of 1.0mm as fiNetrax).

As you say, real touch and go stuff. 7.8mm would be better, but.......then the danger is that the wheels will fall between the rails if the gauge is even a wisker over 9.0mm, and maybe even if it isn't. So, fine for plain track at 7.9mm, but........

 

Course the sensible answer is 2FS ....but it's not everybody choice for multiple reasons. Thankfully new tooling for the 2FS wheels has since arrived and so have the N options again so it's no longer an issue.

 

1 hour ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

This is a useful tutorial to building the chassis in any case (N or 2mm). You are supposed to file the bearing cups down as shown at the end of the thread, although I tend to do it after attaching the first solebar layer.

 

Chris

 

Yes, I thought it really good in showing how good and easy the 2mm etched chassis are to put together. Far better than many in larger scales.

 

Izzy